Gotm18-Celts - Pregame Discussion

[ControlFreak]

I think there is only two things that would make me move the settler.

1. There is a bonus in Teds red circle.->NW to keep free aquaduct but gain bonus.
2. Both bodies of water are actually sea.--> NE to hill since no free aquaduct anyway, gain defense and 1 food.

I can't wait to finish GOTM17

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I've been experimenting with a few starting setups lately and I think BG may be a bit understimated as early game power squares; espescially when there's nothing else to work with (as may very well be the sit here).
The question is really: waste one game turn moving the settler or waste hundreds of shields (assuming the starting position is BG now)?

EDIT: Agree with you , Control Freak, in the second point of your assessment. The shorelines to the west definitly seem to close together to form a lake, though.

 

[ControlFreak]

Oops,

Capt reminds me that a third condition would be

3. The starting square is a BG.->NW to prevent killing BG.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by Capt Buttkick
I've been experimenting with a few starting setups lately and I think BG may be a bit understimated as early game power squares; espescially when there's nothing else to work with (as may very well be the sit here).
The question is really: waste one game turn moving the settler or waste hundreds of shields (assuming the starting position is BG now)?

I'm new to GOTM (and civ) and have only played 16 (QSC only) & 17. From those experiences I think Cracker deliberately tries to make us think hard about the start location and this thread also encourages more thought on the opening move(s).

Think of the Deer in 16 (I missed that entirely) & the choice of Capital placement in 17. I would expect there to be be something similar here in 18.

It could be as simple as the settler is stood on a BG and if you don't move off it then your first city is going to suffer.

Just my idle thoughts

Ted

 

[cavemanf16]

I always play with the bonus grassland shield icons on, and I can tell you almost positively that the Settler is starting a regular Grassland tile.

Personally, I'm gonna plop my settler down right where he is and hope for the best.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by cavemanf16
I always play with the bonus grassland shield icons on, and I can tell you almost positively that the Settler is starting a regular Grassland tile.

Personally, I'm gonna plop my settler down right where he is and hope for the best.

I think it's just grassland too. But if it is a BG then settling on it would be a waste IMHO. I think it more likely that a surprise will be revealed from the hilltop

Ted

 

[Shillen]

What a great feeling to wake up and find this thread here. Another great setup by the GOTM staff .

I will almost definitely move my worker first this time. I didn't last time and it hurt me quite a bit.

So anyone going to milk this game with me?

 

[jordanandsteph]

Can't wait for the new game. I've been playing along on the side, even going back into the archives for gotm's, but this game will be my first attempt at a submission. Cracker and the staff keep doing a great job at pushing the evelope and keeping the games interesting and challenging.

 

[Moonsinger]

Since March has 31 days, we won't be able to download this game for another week.

Anyway, since this is a Pangea map and a lot of barbarians, even though I'm not a warmonger, I intend to setup a training camp (by exploiting those barbarians) to promote my troop to elite at the same time go to war with the nearest civ. I'm hopping for many great leaders so that I can rush as many Great Wonders for the 20K culture win. Therefore, I won't milk this game (at least, I'm not planning for it at the moment), but if this new things doesn't work out, I may decide to give my dairy cows a second chance.

 

[alamo]

I bet Cavemanf16 is correct. The settler square is not BG - looks just like square to NW and SE.

I believe worker to hill will reveal 11 squares, so I will probably risk loosing that 1 turn. That's a 2 square radius, except where blocked by hill. Everything except singularities' yellow circle will be revealed.

Of course checking food from water will be important - fresh or salt?

The size thing is intriguing - sounds like we get more cities and less corruption than usual for that map size.

I agree w/Renata - loosing Gallic Swords in favor of Medieval Inf stinks - you can't just disconnect iron.

Pangea means domination, conquest easiest (for those warmongers, at least). Gallic swords will certainly encourage that strategy, despite the cost.

The barbarian thing sounds threatening - must field a bunch of regulars, I guess.

I wasn't expecting PTW1.21 support - I haven't even patched yet!

Kudos to the GOTM staff.

 

[ltcoljt]

Well, lets see. Moving the worker due north would reveal the tiles I think I need to see up there and then the worker can build a mine.

I'm working off a couple of assumptions. One, iron is probably not nearby. Two, there will be a food special somewhere near. If it is not to the north I'll wager it will be to the west. Maybe that is a wheat square in Singularity's yellow circle.

If nothing special is revealed by my worker move to the north I'll move my settler SW onto the BG in the hope that the southern body of water is a coast square. If so I'll build there and waste the shield. This gives the advantage of the lake and gives me the capability to build sea based wonders here. As there are no rivers in sight Colossus would be a nice boast. My hope then is that the wheat is indeed present so that a second city can be built to the west that can have high growth. I don't have pottery but an early temple and wonder would lay the groundwork for a cultural win.



I am going to read up on the archer rush threads for this one. I can get five archers for the cost of two gauls with no resource requirement.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by Singularity
Nice

I took the liberty to resize and splash some colors on the start pic.

1. Red cirkle. Seems like two legs sticking down from the FOW. Cattle or deer?

2. Blue cirkle. Plains.

3. Yellow cirkle. More hard to see, but might be the top of a bundle of wheat. Not that important since any move besides going SW excludes it from the first city.

4. You can plainly see three bonusgrass marked with + here. The question is if the start position also has a bonus shields. I would favour that there actually is a bonus shield there, something that would warrant a move to NW.

With all this knowledge I would start with sending my worker N to either start mining the bonusgrass there, or proceede if there is cattle/game in the red cirkle. And ultimately settle NW of start pos.

3. Looks like hills to me. Compare that tile to the eastern part of the other hills and you should see the similarity.

1. I don't know about it being cattle. It could just be forests. The default graphics for forests has different size patches of forests. Sometimes forests don't cover the whole tile like you see in those other forests.

I probably would move the worker N, like you. To start working the bonus grassland and to check out that tile you mentioned in point #1. It will also depend on any other thoughts that gets mentioned here, and if those water tiles are fresh water or not.

 

[scubagtr]

Well, this will be my second attempt at the GOTM and I plan on always playing them. One day, I might move into this QSC thing. I must say that this site and the work put into it are exceptional. I enjoy reading and learning from all the input. I have been doing some training for this GOTM18 mission. I guessed that Cracker would move the game up one level and guessed Panagea, but I picked the Persians (just so I could attack my neighbors - Arabia and conquer Basra and Baghdad myself) instead of the Celts. Oh well, I was still close enough. I am winning that game ... so far. So I will continue to play around with that setup eagerly waiting for the April 1 download. I have finally gotten over my defeat in GOTM17 with that stupid UN vote. Of course, if they voted for me, I would not have minded.

I've never played a miliartistic civ before, but look forward to doing so. I see that the advantage on such a civ , is that one can build cheaper military buildings (and also better chance of a GL). What would those be besides barracks, walls, coastal def, etc. Are harbors and airports military? What about Sun Zsu or some other military Wonders. Can you build those cheaper?

Based on the starting loc, I will (1) move my worker N for a peak at the red circle, (2) check if water is fresh, (3) build on the hill if all water is salt , or build NW if water is fresh and something good is in the red circle or build where I am if water is fresh and nothing in red circle. Alright, that's one or two turns of my 1000+.

Normally, I try to build my civ up in culture and power and then attack if provoked, but no more. I'm out to waste any and all civs I encounter. I may befriend some for a little bit, but only to help me in conquering someone else, but I'm already assuming most, if not all civs will be a war with me, and that's just fine.

Of course, this could be a very short game for me as they will all come at me at once and take my few cities. Oh well, bring it on !!!!

 

[planetfall]

Bottom of announcement page gives download for PTW 1.14. Is this as last month, either 1.14 or 1.21 or is it only 1.14?

-- PF

 

[ltcoljt]

On the other hand, since there are no tundra or jungle squares shown we may very well be looking at both bodies of water being lakes. In which case moving the settler southwest would be a blunder. So now I think I'll move the worker south first to check out that water square.

 

[ControlFreak]

@planetfall
My PTW download link said 1.14/1.21. I think yours did too

scubagtr@
I know that harbors are cheap (yippee on a panagea.) I'm not sure about airports. Wonders are never reduced.

Barracks are cheap but I'm not sure I'll build a lot for three reasons.

1. Monarch still gives advantage against barbarians.
2. Getting to veteran is easier for a militaristic civ and there should be plenty of barb promoters.
3. Sun Tsu's is very powerful on a panagea map and should be the way I build most of my barracks.

 

[Singularity]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy


3. Looks like hills to me. Compare that tile to the eastern part of the other hills and you should see the similarity.

1. I don't know about it being cattle. It could just be forests. The default graphics for forests has different size patches of forests. Sometimes forests don't cover the whole tile like you see in those other forests.

I probably would move the worker N, like you. To start working the bonus grassland and to check out that tile you mentioned in point #1. It will also depend on any other thoughts that gets mentioned here, and if those water tiles are fresh water or not.

I agree that it's not wheat, but allmost certainly hills in that square. And after compairing other shots of cattle and deer I'm starting to doubt the cattle as well. It seems that cattle has a much smaller graphic than I thought, so I would never actually see any part of it in a bordertile under FOW.

I guess I was tired and seeing things

Nevertheless, like your conclusion. I'll move my worker north since I'll work that tile anyway. And if that body of water to the NW isn't lake, it'll have to have a very narrow opening to the sea NW of our visible squares.

 

[Shillen]

Ok I blew the image up and I concur with Bamspeedy's analysis. The red circle is forest and the yellow circle is a hill. Looking closely at the settler's right leg I can just barely make out the outline of the bonus shield, I could just be seeing things though, but I think it's there. I will move my worker NE on the hill hoping to find a river or cattle or something to the east, but most likely I'll settle 1 tile NW of the start position.

I don't think it would be terrible to not have any bonus food though in this game. If there was a lot of bonus food I'd be a lot more prone to send out my settlers unescorted. With a high shield start it will be easier to build the escorts for them to fend off the restless barbarians. After I found my second or third town I'll probably build a couple archers that will actively search for barb camps to protect my settlers and workers a bit more.

 

[ltcoljt]

i suppose there are a limited number of tiles for each terrain type and with enough research someone will soon be able to identify tiles from the edges only.

Ack.

Another project on the list.

 

[jordanandsteph]

Has anyone thought of moving the setter NE and settling on the hill....to get the 50% defensive bonus in this dangerous land of restless barbs? Oh my!