Gotm25-Mongols Speculation Thread

Originally posted by RowAndLive
That I do not agree with. I really expect the scientific / more advanced civs to be on the fringes / far end in order to give them a chance to develop, and thus be the later game challenge. Given the Keshik's advantages, one of very few possible counters will be technology - the Aztec's just wouldn't cut it... THe Persians, given their UU may be a mid-map nation, but I still suspect not. Also, I again expect only a single Scientific opponent civ so as to mitigate the PTW tech race issue. Perhaps Perisa will lose scientific in favor of expansionist? Russia, with the Cossack, wouldbe the most logical mid-to-late game strong opponent, even if it didn't work that way historically.
I wasn't thinking about how to manipulate the game mechanics to aid/combat the Mongol strengths. Rather, I was referring to Russian territory historically was considered the Golden Horde. Golden (as the link I reference says) was the color of the center of the mongols. Hence I thought Russia would be placed at the center of the map.
It is noteworthy that it was Russia that was the part of the Mongol Empire that survived longest. Subsequently the Russian land would be called "The Golden Horde." What does that mean? What most people do not know is that it were the Russians themselves who gave their part of the Empire this name. It has been assumed that the designation "Golden Horde" is derived from the golden color of the Mongol Khan's tent. This is mistaken, but needs a little explanation. We can start by asking why the Khan's tent was golden. The reason for this stems from age-old Inner Asian (and Chinese) symbolism. According to this symbolism, the color of Black designates North, Blue indicates East, Red is the color of South, and White is the color symbolizing West. The middle, or central area is represented by the Golden or yellow color. Traditionally, all Mongols of the line of Chingis Khan were said to be members of the Golden Family. The reason for this is that Golden, the color of the middle, is also the color of the political concept of Central Authority, hence all partakers of this Chingisid authority are by definition members of the Golden Family. The meaning of the Golden Horde is then the "horde (= political-social unit) in the middle." The correctness of this interpretation is demonstrated by the fact that the Mongol peoples in Russia called the Russian tsar "the White Tsar," which of course means "The Tsar (Ruler) of the West." (the white area) When the Russians called themselves the Golden Horde it therefore proved that the Russians at one stage considered themselves not only part of the Mongol Empire, but also that they regarded the Russian part of that empire the primary, central (Golden) area.
 
I'm hoping that GOTM 25 will have one new feature:

Available a few days early so that I can finish it before Conquests is out!

Really, though, it shouldn't be a problem--I got so into GOTM 24, I finished it in just a couple of days anyway.
 
Control Freak:

Thanks for the symbolism reference! That is interesting stuff. I now also understand where you were coming from.
 
RowandLive@ turn on your PM or email! I want to talk to you about the great state of New York (Cornell Grad, looking to get back there.)

You're welcome for the quote.

I hate the idea of all land tiles; too much fodder for the warmonger, early-domination experts.:hammer:
 
Animal husbandry is crucial to the nomadic Mongol life. Key resources will be the takhi horses (integral to the nomad life and needed to make airag), wool (to make felt for our tents), goats (Mongolia now produces 20% of the world’s cashmere), cattle, sheep, and lambs. There should be game and fish, though the Mongols prefer red meat to fish. The Mongols have also long cultivated wheat.

Mongolia is a high (1500 m above sea level) plateau of steppes (plains) lying between the Gobi Desert and tundra. There are many mountains and the Taiga forest should be near. There are 4,000 lakes and 3,000 rivers. Russia and China should be on opposite sides of us.

[Edit] Now what would really be nice is to have Tuvan Throat Singing in the tech tree. [dance]

I predict the victory condition will be domination or maybe conquest. It’s time for me to learn the art of war! :slay:
 
I actually dreamed two nights ago that a mongol horde rode past my house.... :D

Anyway, I think the new GOTM game will be a big feast 'o slash 'n dash...

The mongols in the middle, with civilizations like China, Germany, Russia and Korea all around it, ready to take their share... But that aint gonna happen! ;)

More details of my twisted fantasy I do not wish to share!
 
Russia and China(Han) will be the main enemies in at least one age. Since the Civ3 Chinese Rider is essentially the Mongolian UU, it might be an option to just take him from Han and give him to us. Whatever the UU will be, it should be fast, cheap, and available early without the need of iron.

Expansion could be forced by the complete absence of both fresh water and grasslands in Mongolia. This would require 2-3 super-resources in our capital radius (e.g. Mongolian Horses, on plains: +3f/+2s/+1c), to enable a bearable settler and military production rate...could be an interesting challenge indeed, although difficulty then might better be set to Monarch or below. Also different corruption rules would be cool - either lower it significantly for one or all government types, or introduce a medieval Communism. (Better yet: make corruption rate proportional to the city's population - but I doubt that this is possible via txt editing:().

The other civs (apart from Russia & China) depend on the scope of the map - I think nearly everything is possible here.

Option (a): Small to medium, pangea, no ocean at all, map borders are Ural, Himalaya, extensive tundras and in the east the deltas of Yangtse et al.. No other "great" civs, early wars take place between Mongolian tribes. VC: Conquest.

Option (b): Same as (a) but with the addition of quite large southern territories plus the Indian Ocean, so that both India and Babylon/Persia play a major role during most of the game (and not only as luxury provider). Korea might also be granted a smaller part in the NE. Map size: Medium to large. VC: Domination.

Option (c): The next enhancement would be either Japan or (and?) better Europe. Europe would be the perfect candidate for the highly advanced but not too powerful bunch of nations, provided the Ural and perhaps a (more or less fictitiuos) wide desert can seperate them from Asia long enough...(I wonder if it will be possible thus to create a situation where the hordes of medieval riders prevail against rifleman and conquer Europe :mad:...) Egypt might play a smaller role SW in this setup. Map size: Large (perhaps the tech costs need to be raised). VC: Domination.

Option (d): Guess what? Yep, the world - or a least the complete northern hemisphere. Map size had to be huge, and even Domination might be too tedious. Probably not the best setup, since both tech speed and corruption would soon enter ridiculous dimensions. (Nonetheless this could be one of the more interesting World Games...)
 
As non-industrious nation, we should have a couple of free slaves in an arid wide country. Perhaps we have to chase those workers ourselves and whack that vulcano?

I'm not sure if cracker want another Asian-dilemma before the hugely awaited Asian thingie.....

This will be with different nations around, but I could believe the idea about plains that someone said. Probaly far to lux'es and resources, so we HAVE to expand. Cruel for us builders!

The more I read my post the more I believe it...and the more I "hate" you, cracker!

Dam!
 
A few months ago, I saw a show on the mongols, and they would use there dead plague infested bodies to catapult over a cities walls. I don't remember the city, but do ya think we will have this ability?

And yes, I do realize this is pretty gotesque.
 
Mongols catapulting dead people over city walls isn't anything new...

All during medieval times, including post and past, the marching armies would gather up dead animals and bodies, to later be stuffed onto catapults, which thrusted the bodies over city wallls. Now, the infested bodies would spread their diseases all over the city, taking casualities among the population, both physically and morally..

Grotesque, yes, but highly effective! :devil2:
 
Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
A few months ago, I saw a show on the mongols, and they would use there dead plague infested bodies to catapult over a cities walls. I don't remember the city, but do ya think we will have this ability?

And yes, I do realize this is pretty gotesque.

It was probably in one of their invasions of europe in the 14th century that spread the bubuonic plague.
 
Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
A few months ago, I saw a show on the mongols, and they would use there dead plague infested bodies to catapult over a cities walls. I don't remember the city, but do ya think we will have this ability?
Certainly. All workers in gotm25 will have the :nuke: ability. You just have to walk with them right into an enemy city, and the population, defenders, territory and your rep will be dead next turn. :goodjob:

And to make things even more enteresting, all workers will get a 10% chance of going off at random each turn. This is the unique part of the whole Mongol business. :D
 
Somewhat more subtly, they also threw infested bodies into a river upstream from a fortified town under siege (I think this was against the Turks somewhere), poisoning the water, but not quite as obvious.
 
Not wanted to be crackered, I have a questions before I post my questions. Is this a thread we can discuss how to best play the Mongols? I have been trying them out recently and would like to dicsuss my experiences and see if I can gain any insights in how to best use their abilities.
 
Serttech,

You may want to wait for the Pregame discussion to open so you can share your pearls of wisdom (if that is what they will be0.

Remember, that if you wish to play this game in PTW at either of the higher two difficulty classes you will have your choice of playing the game with the standard PTW Mongol Keshik or you can play with the same Mongol game definition as the Civ3v1.29 players. This is not meant to be a complex or confusing decision it just represents that fact that we had to build a game specific to the Civ3v1.29 versions of the software and it only seem fair to give the PTW players the choice to play this game setup or the game setup that was sold to you in the expansion pack.

Also, Serttech, you may want to look at a few more past game examples so you can see that we have had "Speculation" threads to let you guess what you think the game will be like and they we progress to the "Pre-game Discussion" threads when the starting position and game announcement is released to the public. Debating all 73 gazillion permutations of potential Mongol strategy may not be too focused until you know what the game will be.
 
thats why I asked first. Don't confuse my eagerness to learn with an eagerness to share. I know nothing about using the Mongols, at least nothing that anyone would want to know. I will humbly submit to the game master and wait like a good Mongol warrior.
 
Originally posted by serttech2003
Not wanted to be crackered,

A NEW VERB!!

crack.er ('kra-k&r) (v) crackered, crackering, crackers
Date: 21st Century
Origin: CivFanatics forums

(v.tr.)
1. To be chastized by cracker for not following Game of the Month forum rules.

(inf) to cracker,
 
I'd hate to get OT, but I'm new to GOTM and I'm just wondering exactly where I download these GOTMs?
 
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