Gotm25-Mongols Speculation Thread

[cracker]

It is time to open the player speculation thread for Gotm25-Mongols and see what your best guesses will be as to how this game will take shape.

The playable civ is the Mongols and the game will use the Gotm24-Korea setup as a base with and an add-on game pack.

This game represents our final game where a PTW introduced civilization will be added to the game play in both CIv3v1.29 and PTW. One of the reasons that the Mongols were scheduled last is because the PTW implementation of the Keshik UU was so unusual and could not be replicated in the Civ3v1.29 game. Whether or not the PTW implementation of the Keshik was right, wrong, or indifferent was not a real consideration since our only choice was to provide some sort of implementation for a unique unit set that would give the Civ3v1.29 Mongols a truly unique and exciting opportunity to be an enjoyable game.

Players who chose to play this Gotm25-Mongols game in the PTW versions of the game will have the opportunity to play the game with the Asian Civ Game pack from Gotm24 and the Keshik unique unit OR they will have the choice of playing the game with a PTW implementation of exactly the same civspecific unit characteristics that will be played by the Civ3v1.29 players. Civ3v1.29 players will not have to make this choice since the Keshik has been denied to them.

The game will again be one of the most spectacular and unique game experiences you may have played in Civ3. It will give every player the opportunity to experience new and exciting challenges that you may never have experienced in any previous game.

Players who have not played Gotm24-Korea due to any number of personal choices and schedule issues, should download and install the appropriate Gotm24 game pack and use that game as load test and practice game to get ready for Gotm25-Mongols.

It should also be lots of fun for experienced players and new players alike!!

What do you think you will see in terms of map characteristics and civ opponents for this game?

What do you think the unique unit characteristics and abilities will be for the non-Keshik versions of the game?

What events and experiences do you hope to see recreated or extrapolated in this timeline version of the world as it would evolve centered around the Mongols?

 

[cracker]

For the benefit of players who may have bypassed the Civfanatics Frontpgae news announcement, here is an internal reprint of the first lead-in announcement preparing for the unveiling of Gotm25-Mongols:

The Wind is a Messenger ??

Storm clouds on the horizon and the distant rumble of thunder disturb the simple peasants as they work in their fields. Uneasy omens send the faint of heart scurrying for the percieved safety of nearby villages.

The weather has changed and the normally cold monsoon winds have shifted to carry an unusual warmth tinged with the lurid smells of conflict, conquest, and thousands of miles of upturned earth mixed with with the blood, sweat, and offal of both man and beast.

No one sleeps easy tonight as some are gripped by fear while others quiver with an anticipation of the chance for glory. The future may hold challenges and threats of unmentionable ferocity that are beyond the imagination of the mere commoners.

A few brave souls begin to sharpen their swords and prepare for the challenges that must be faced.

Will you be among the conquered or will you find the skills and inner strength to rise above the challenges that will soon be revealed??

 

[keiselhorn]

Mongolia is one my favourite civs in the multiplayer.

I'd like to know what will be the victory target for Medal 6-3. I'm expecting Conquest. Actually I hope conquest. :devil2:

I'm expecting huge pangea with lots of civs. China and Persia nearby starting location. Level Emperor or Demi-God, perhaps Deity. Warmonger's dream.

Since Civ3 vanilla players will get a UU without mountain crossing bonus, I believe mountanious terrain won't be a issue.

 

[TriviAl]

Might possibly see a recreation of the mongol hordes ravaging Europe. So perhaps far end of pangea/other island with France, Germany and England/Spain...

Given the history of the mongols a conquest goal would be fitting...

 

[chk]

I expect a starting position with important ressources (horses, iron) and some bonus land tiles in the neighbourhood and a nearby starting position of the Han dynasty so that there will be a very early clash between them...

 

[High King J.J.]

I speculate we'll see...
A small archipelago map with only a few peaceful, loving opponents, with difficulty level exceeding Warlord (on predator class, conquest class is chieftain level with the extra bonuses ).
A few lost barbarians may be sighted but they will flee or commit :suicide: when approached. Unit promotion is difficult because opponents evacuate their units from threatened cities (except settlers and workers). Player starting position is surrounded with goody huts on luxury tiles while AI's positions are ringed with volcanoes.

NOT.

I expect a sadistic deity level melee where only the most savage conquerors survive. peaceful builders like myself will be exterminated in the ancient age.

 

[Karasu]

I see an endless steppe with rich and advanced civilizations on the edges, for us to conquer and pillage.
No barbarians, as *we* are the barbs in this world and everyone will fear us.

The UU might be a mounted archer? No mountaneering, but bombard (à la Peltast)? Only Cracker knows, only time will tell.

I can't wait for the new month! (Also because I'm taking my holidays... ).

 

[King Of America]

...and it's going to be vicious!

 

[Justus II]

I agree with the Pangea map type, but at least one civ (Japan) will be on an island or small continent, after all the mongols built great fleets to try and invade! Fairly arid, so food bonuses might be sparce, except in the "civilized" lands we will be conquering!

I have been thinking about the UU, it seems the closest way to approximate the Keshik's special ability would be the treat all terrain as roads attribute, with still a move of two. That is very powerful, though, making it very hard to defend against. Otherwise, a move of 3, like the Riders, might be feasible. Add on a Blitz ability and it could be terrifying also!

 

[ltccone]

Originally posted by chk
I expect a starting position with important ressources (horses, iron) and some bonus land tiles in the neighbourhood and a nearby starting position of the Han dynasty so that there will be a very early clash between them...

Keshicks, at least the PTW version, don't need iron.

 

[ltccone]

I'm expecting a starting position of mostly plains (steppe) on a large Pangea map.

I'm guessing these historical opponents: Japan, China, India, Persia, Arabia, Ottomans, and Russia. And maybe a European opponent or two at one end of the map opposite Japan.

 

[ltcoljt]

I think the Mongol UU should be available with chivalry and be a mounted 4-3-3 with bombard ability. Or better. What other military unit more dominated its timeframe. Should be the best UU in the game IMO.

 

[ltccone]

Originally posted by ltcoljt
I think the Mongol UU should be available with chivalry and be a mounted 4-3-3 with bombard ability. Or better. What other military unit more dominated its timeframe. Should be the best UU in the game IMO.

Though the Mongol soldiers were very good (note to Europe: horse archers can turn knights into pincushions, i.e. the Battle of Liegnitz), it was their generals that were superb. Subotai and Chepe Noyon (the arrow) were the best. Chepe Noyon destroyed the Kingdom of Kiev with a single tumen (about 10,000 men) out on a raid. Subotai directed the Mongol army at Liegnitz. They also drafted Chinese engineers to do their engineering and direct sieges for them, like they did at Baghdad.

 

[RowAndLive]

I think there will be a large central expanse of plains / grasslands / desert, with varied terrain around the edges, and perhaps in smaller patches within the whole. I would expect the Russians (or a single similar scientific "civilization") and Persians, maybe the Indians.

Given the way that GOTM24 was handled, I'd expect other tribes of horsefolk, similar to the Mongols, but without the Keshik. I don't think that it would carry much further than that. Cracker et al did a remarkable job with GOTM24 by including the "minor" civs in the area of Korea. I would expect that a similar remarkable job will be done with GOTM25. Example: Huns, Avars, etc. Not exactly, because they were not included in the list of opponents for GOTM24, but similar. Perhaps Sythians? Cracker made reference to the 24 setup, so I expect the special civs to carry the same names.

I might be interesting to see a map that had land as a full X-wrap of the map. Minimal water, perhaps in the form of large lakes so as to allow a few rivers.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I agree with RowAnd Live. Cracker will try to duplicate the ancient tribes around Mongolia, Siberia, India, and China. He is building up for the finale. All these tribes from the Korean gotm and this one will resurface in the Asian Melee at the end of the year. We will probably face 31 other civs in that one.

 

[ControlFreak]

Knowing nothing of Mongol History, I found this cronology of Mongolia. (I often wonder if Cracker's intent is to make us learn some history.)

The oldest "validated" text regarding the rise of the mongols begins:
The Secret History of the Mongols
There came into the world a blue-gray wolf
whose destiny was Heaven’s will.
His wife was a fallow deer.
They travelled across the inland sea
and when they were camped near the source of the Onon River
in sight of Mount Burkhan Khaldun
their first son was born, named Batachikan.

I suspect we will start on the edge of a great tundra forest filled with game to offset the lack of food. The start will be on a river, near the delta to a large lake (Bajkal Sea). This lake and a large plain will separate us from the Han Dynasty (China), Korea and their tribes. Some new tribes will start in the plains with no fresh water to improve their lands, keeping them small and conquerable by our troops. Mountains will separate us and one or two other tribes from the rest of the map. Russia past that will be centrally located on this Panagea map. Persia will be there too. If any of the European races are there I suspect Germany to be on the far side of the continent.

Based on past map making tricks, I suspect we will start on the lower left of the map and the map will be a south pole map (or really, a north pole map, rotated 180degrees).

If not for the Persia Medal Game, I would have said 100K victory is the target. With that being the last game, I am thinking domination or conquest, probably conquest.

 

[AlanH]

Re: the Asian Meleé:

Come to think of it, I don't remember Cracker ever telling us the answer to the question he posed during the Mediterranean Meleé - why was it called a Meleé?

Come on, Cracker, while we are waiting for QSC results, at least give us a crumb - who got it right, if anyone?

 

[ltccone]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
I agree with RowAnd Live. Cracker will try to duplicate the ancient tribes around Mongolia, Siberia, India, and China. He is building up for the finale. All these tribes from the Korean gotm and this one will resurface in the Asian Melee at the end of the year. We will probably face 31 other civs in that one.

I really doubt this is the case. Temujin united the Mongols fairly quickly. All of the Mongol neighbors were nation-states, not tribes.

 

[keiselhorn]

Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
We will probably face 31 other civs in that one.

Would be a long game.

 

[RowAndLive]

Originally posted by ControlFreak
Some new tribes will start in the plains with no fresh water to improve their lands, keeping them small and conquerable by our troops.

That I agree with.

Russia past that will be centrally located on this Panagea map. Persia will be there too. If any of the European races are there I suspect Germany to be on the far side of the continent.

That I do not agree with. I really expect the scientific / more advanced civs to be on the fringes / far end in order to give them a chance to develop, and thus be the later game challenge. Given the Keshik's advantages, one of very few possible counters will be technology - the Aztec's just wouldn't cut it... THe Persians, given their UU may be a mid-map nation, but I still suspect not. Also, I again expect only a single Scientific opponent civ so as to mitigate the PTW tech race issue. Perhaps Perisa will lose scientific in favor of expansionist? Russia, with the Cossack, wouldbe the most logical mid-to-late game strong opponent, even if it didn't work that way historically.

Based on past map making tricks, I suspect we will start on the lower left of the map and the map will be a south pole map (or really, a north pole map, rotated 180degrees).

I'll joint this bandwagon too. We could use a southern hemisphere-oriented. Although I still prefer the all land idea!