GOTM94 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 94 - first spoiler, the Ancient Age

Reading Requirements:

1. Must have contact with all AI civs remaining on your continent.
2. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.

Posting restrictions

1. Feel free to discuss distant contacts and trades, but be discreet about locations or directions of any AI.
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later) including resource locations.
3. AS ALWAYS, do not post Spoiler information for ANY other 'X'OTM contest.

This is what I would call an irritating starting position.

Yes, there's a lot of good stuff within eye-sight, but it doesn't fit well together. How did you solve this problem, where did you found the capital and why? And did it work out? Also, you're rather isolated from the rest of the AI masses - nice to have the buffer, or did the isolation bother your expansion plans? Oh yes, and how did the Ancient Age work out for you?

 

[Più Freddo]

there's a lot of good stuff within eye-sight, but it doesn't fit well together. How did you solve this problem

For a four-turner, you'd have to mine all food bonuses (or build an Aqueduct). I opted for a six-turn Settler Factory without a Granary. The capital borrowed the other Wheat tile every third turn.

where did you found the capital and why? And did it work out?

I walked 2NW in order to fit in a distance-three ring of cities and crammed in seven such cities.

Also, you're rather isolated from the rest of the AI masses - nice to have the buffer, or did the isolation bother your expansion plans?

A pain in the lower parts, but it's the same for all. I met the lot at around 1500 BC and learned 11 technologies in 1425 thanks to a monopoly on Literature.

Entered the Middle Ages in 730 BC trading The Republic around and had the luck to discover Feudalism as a bonus, while Persia got Monotheism.

 

[Optional]

This is like a new game for me. I never play PTW. Some things caught me by surprise, like the contact trading that went on very early. I messed that up a bit, trading for contacts with Writing, only to discover that I still couldn't trade with those contacts that interturn. Or is there a way? Maybe somebody can tell, but it seemed there wasn't. Of course, once the new turn arrived, everybody knew Writing and my contacts were useless. Undoubtedly I had payed too much for my contacts, and I still handn't picked up Pottery!

I went on researching Code of Laws, got a monopoly on that, and finally could pick up Pottery and some other techs and build a few graneries. My captital became a 2-turn worker factory for a while, as I already had put in a core, but still needed worker improvements at places.

After Code of Laws I went on with Currency, but didn't trade with that until the AI had researched Construction. Persia got that first, so then I traded, and entered the Middle Ages at 925BC. Looks like a sharp date compared to Piu Freddo, but I didn't research any of the optionals, like Literature and Republic. I hope the AI will research Republic for me.
Just like Piu Freddo, I got Feudalism, Persia got Monotheism, so again I traded, but it looks like I'll have to go minimum research on Theology as I payed Persia gpt for Construction as well as Monotheism.

Where did you found the capital and why?

I moved 1 north-west. The settler started on a hill, but with so much food around, I wanted to keep the hill for its shield yield later on. 1 north-west also brought the settler next to the cow, which meant an extra shield and a warrior in 5 turns. Warriors are handy with barbs around.

I walked 2NW in order to fit in a distance-three ring of cities and crammed in seven such cities.

I only remembered halfway my core there was something like Ring City Placement in PTW. Well, I hadn't seen much of my surroundings when I settled Babylon anyway, and my rudimentary core ended up looking like this:

Spoiler :

At least 3 towns at equal distance of the capital, and I believe there's place for another 2 south-east of Ur.

I play predator by the way, but could build the temple in Nineveh from popping Ceremonial Burial with the Ur settler.
I'll probably go for a peaceful win, as I usually do, and warfare seems even more complicated to me with all that jungle between Babylon and all the AI. I just hope to find the discipline to somehow finish this game and actually post a final save. The start itself I certainly don't find unattractive, but all that jungle to the north seems rather tough to get into. I wonder how other players will deal with that.

 

[Megalou]

I messed that up a bit, trading for contacts with Writing, only to discover that I still couldn't trade with those contacts that interturn. Or is there a way? Maybe somebody can tell, but it seemed there wasn't. Of course, once the new turn arrived, everybody knew Writing and my contacts were useless. Undoubtedly I had payed too much for my contacts, and I still handn't picked up Pottery!

Hi and welcome! I don't know if this is what you mean but there is a small bug in PTW. If you trade contacts on the interturn by clicking on the leaderheades in the F4 screen, you will not see those contacts when you return to the F4 screen. The way to remedy this (without leaving the interturn) is to choose another screen, like F5, and then return to the F4 screen. Then you will see your new contacts.

Just like Piu Freddo, I got Feudalism, Persia got Monotheism

You lucky b....... Guess what I got stuck with.

I walked 2NW in order to fit in a distance-three ring of cities and crammed in seven such cities.

Good choice! That could make a difference.

 

[Megalou]

Predator.

Mine all food bonus:
Size 4: 2 (cow)+1(wheat)+1(wheat)+1(wine)+1(central), size 4: 6sh.
Size 4.5: 8 sh (forest added)
Size 5, can't use forest: 7 sh.
Size 5.5: 9 sh.

I decided to build an early worker. Before I could get pottery I also "had to" build a settler, who I actually settled on the gold to the east. The granary was finished roughly at the same time as the improvements. I chose RCP 5 which I regret because there is a grassland on the coast to the west at RCP4. However, I do want a ring of powerful towns/cities in this game and that I will get.

Science was the ususal bee-line for Republic and as you can see below I got a monopoly.

3450: popped barbs.
3100: Popped barbs.
2750: Zulu. Persia.
2670 (IT): Met Carthage. Alphabet. Trade masonry, pottery, CB, WC from Persia, Zulu.
Trade 21 gold from Carthage for CB, 12 gold from Persia for Pottery.
2430 - Rome.
2350 - Mongols.
1950 - Japan, India.
1700 - Bought and sold Horseback Riding.
1550 - Zulu declared over Philosophy.
1450 - Popped barbs.
1425 - Traded CoL(4t), Math
1375 - Traded Map Making
1275 - Mongols declared over crap.
1000 BC - Peace with Mongols for 132 gold. (Ca) Carthage ally with Zulu. We have one four turn settler factory and one two turn worker factory.
825 - Embassy in Japan. Republic (monopoly). Enter MA. Get Engineering.
Peace with Persia. Allied Japan against Carthage.
Gift Persia and they get Engineering too! Rotten luck!

Republic. We have 12 towns, 2 settlers, 9 workers, 5 warriors, 1 spearman, 3 horsemen (one elite.)

There is quite a bit of war happiness.

The map is really great and unique!

 

[Optional]

If you trade contacts on the interturn by clicking on the leaderheades in the F4 screen, you will not see those contacts when you return to the F4 screen. The way to remedy this (without leaving the interturn) is to choose another screen, like F5, and then return to the F4 screen. Then you will see your new contacts.

Yes, that is what I meant, thanks! Lesson learnt.

You lucky b....... Guess what I got stuck with.

Persia Engineering too? That is bad luck. But you got some civs to declare on you. I didn't even receive a single demand. Well, if you had to choose, I know you would rather have had the tech, yeah.

 

[I. Larkin]

Settle in place. Irrigate. Build workers and poprush Granary. Use RCP 4 and 9. Research line was Pottery, Literature, Republic, Construction, Currency. AI helped very little, as usual. Made MA&PT deal with Carthage vs Japan and India, and Zulu vs Japan. Zulu broke, Cartage not. Got Edo for peace with Japan, and capture Indian Madras, Zulu's Ittombe (ibt 2 games). Mongos declare. MA&PT deal with Rome vs Mongols. Got GA straight after republic. Got Mono (510 BC) as free tech and Persia got Engineering. Zulu got Pyramids and Colosus, India TGL. Rome Lighthouse, Persia Oracle and GW.

 

[Più Freddo]

You lucky b.......

Yes. But the luck didn't last into the Middle Ages.

 

[Megalou]

But you got some civs to declare on you. I didn't even receive a single demand.

I got two demands and one alliance against me. I have a feeling that the AI always demand Philosophy if you have a monopoly on it. Some statistics would be interesting. But of course the AI have been known to demand Code of Laws too.

 

[Optional]

I have a feeling that the AI always demand Philosophy if you have a monopoly on it. Some statistics would be interesting.

I've never seen it being tested, but it wouldn't surprise me if the AI always went for the cheapest tech you have up on them.
Of course, human players like to be up techs like Philosophy and Literature. Especially Literature is a tech I try to avoid when I haven't got much of a military.

The AI can be predictable. Guess which civ built the Great Library in my game?

Spoiler :

Zululand!

 

[Più Freddo]

Guess which civ built the Great Library in my game?

I suppose that happened in your Middle Ages. If that is the case, please save such information for the proper spoiler thread.

 

[Optional]

Yes, you're right, Piu Freddo. Sorry, I wasn't thinking properly there.

 

[Racinante]

4000 BC: Settle in place, w, w, w, w, w, granary
3500 BC: Hut->Pottery
3250 BC: Hut->Barbarians
2510 BC IBT: Complete Alphabet
1910 BC: Hut->Warrior Code, Ninevah founded South (#3)
1675 BC: Ashur founded due W
1600 BC: More barbarians coming from south, one sacked Ninevah before I could get the warriors built.
IBT: Complete Writing
1525 BC: Ellipi founded (#5)
1325 BC: Akkad founded (#6)
1175 BC: Uruk founded (#7)
1125 BC: - IBT Code of Laws Completed
1075 BC: Eridu founded (#8)
1050 BC: Samarra founded (#9) Dispersing a barb camp
1000 BC: QSC: 9 towns, Philosophy in 5, 57 g, pop 15, 13 units, 103 land tiles, 6 workers, 4 spears, 3 warriors, building 2 settlers, 5 spears, 1 warrior, 1 worker, spices and wines hooked up, no contacts

900 BC: IBT Complete Philosophy
710 BC: Meet Persians, buy contact with Japanese for 44 g, trade Japan Philosophy+7g for The Wheel, trade WM around to Persia, Zululand, Japan, Carthage, Mongols.
670 BC: Carthage, Persia, and Zulu have entered Middle Ages.
630 BC: Kish founded
330 BC: Complete Republic, trade Republic to Persia for Maps, Lit, WM, 364 g, Iron, Masonry, Mysticism, Horses. Trade Mongols, Republic for Poly, Math, WM, 100g. Trade Carthage The Republic for Construction, Currency, WM + 51g. Enter Middle Ages, gaining Feudalism as free tech. Tech parity. Revolt to Republic.

 

[Megalou]

1000 BC: QSC: 9 towns, Philosophy in 5, 57 g, pop 15, 13 units, 103 land tiles, 6 workers, 4 spears, 3 warriors, building 2 settlers, 5 spears, 1 warrior, 1 worker, spices and wines hooked up, no contacts

Why all these spears? I'd advice against defensive units mainly for two reasons: 1) They are likely to bring your wars closer to your own borders, possibly even within them, resulting in AI pillaging and lack of expanision. (Granted, one or two spears could be useful for protecting workers and settlers in the jungle area, but this can also be done by offensive units.) 2) In republic, the upkeep needed to support them will stifle resaearch or make offensive units unaffordable.

I'll save the nicest reason to the next spoiler.

I built one spearman, mainly because a 20 shield unit fitted well in the setting up of my two turn worker factory and the chopping of a forest.

I thought this was a good time to advocate offensive units because it's evident to me that the mountains in this game can help protect horsemen and archers, effectively giving them 2 defensive hit points, even if you want to play a defensive game. Best of luck.

 

[Optional]

May I add a little to that? Possibly the spears were used on towns as defense against barbs, but instead of having to defend against barbs, you can also try to prevent them from spawning.
Barbs only spawn away from units with an attack and defense value (sometimes people say they only spawn in the fog of war, but they can still spawn next to a scout or worker). In this Babylonian empire, if you were putting some of your warriors outside of your borders, on the hills north and south of your core, you would have prevented them from spawning near you in the first place.

I also spotted this:

1000 BC:.. no contacts.

I don't think this has hurt you much in this game, as Republic still bought you everything you needed, but it can help to send a warrior scouting straight away. Perhaps with more contacts early some techs would have been cheaper, or maybe you could have bought a worker or two.

 

[Racinante]

Thank you both very much. One of the reasons I play and post is to get better. Unfortunately, I went from bad to worse in this game.

Why all these spears? I'd advise against defensive units mainly for two reasons: 1) They are likely to bring your wars closer to your own borders, possibly even within them, resulting in AI pillaging and lack of expansion. (Granted, one or two spears could be useful for protecting workers and settlers in the jungle area, but this can also be done by offensive units.) 2) In republic, the upkeep needed to support them will stifle research or make offensive units unaffordable.

Yep, my research slowed to a crawl. I built bowman and declared on Persia and took the Eastern isthmus, but I should have disbanded the spears to help build other structures / units. Eventually I had more units than I could support and was facing superior units. I finally built some horsemen and then secured some iron (temporarily as it turns out), but at that point I was so far behind that early middle age units were facing more advanced units.

May I add a little to that? Possibly the spears were used on towns as defense against barbs, but instead of having to defend against barbs, you can also try to prevent them from spawning.
Barbs only spawn away from units with an attack and defense value (sometimes people say they only spawn in the fog of war, but they can still spawn next to a scout or worker). In this Babylonian empire, if you were putting some of your warriors outside of your borders, on the hills north and south of your core, you would have prevented them from spawning near you in the first place.

I also spotted this:I don't think this has hurt you much in this game, as Republic still bought you everything you needed, but it can help to send a warrior scouting straight away. Perhaps with more contacts early some techs would have been cheaper, or maybe you could have bought a worker or two.

The barbarians slaughtered me early in the jungle killing the warriors I was using to try to get contacts. I switched to spears for the trek, but encountered uprisings of horsemen. By the time I met Persia and Rome, I was way behind. Still, I persisted on my path to Republic, and you know the results. I've seen barbarians spawn next to workers and settlers, so I knew a military unit was needed to prevent that.

I may replay this one next month to see if I can correct most of the mistakes I made. Thanks for the insight. I'm really beginning to hate jungles....

 

[Più Freddo]

1000 BC: QSC: 9 towns, Philosophy in 5, 57 g, pop 15, 13 units, 103 land tiles, 6 workers, 4 spears, 3 warriors, building 2 settlers, 5 spears, 1 warrior, 1 worker, spices and wines hooked up, no contacts

I had 12 towns, The Republic in 14, 620 g, pop 34, 16 workers, 5 warriors, 2 galleys, 8 bowmen, 2 barracks, 1 library, horses, spices, wines, 7 contacts, no polytheism or construction, otherwise all AA techs.

 

[Racinante]

I had 12 towns, The Republic in 14, 620 g, pop 34, 16 workers, 5 warriors, 2 galleys, 8 bowmen, 2 barracks, 1 library, horses, spices, wines, 7 contacts, no polytheism or construction, otherwise all AA techs.

Thanks, this will give me a target to shoot for when I replay. Another option I'm considering is to play to the middle ages several times using various strategies and thought processes, which would give me a better feel for what and when to build.