[R&F] Government Plaza Dilemma

[GunsGermsandSteel]

While I think the extra governor promotions are easily worth the government plaza district I find I constantly put off building one till much later in the game
Why? There are always more important district to put up first. I prioritize campus/holy site/commercial hub/theatre square all above government plaza.
There's also the fact that districts are limited by city pop, so I don't necessarily want a district that boosts other districts early on.

Then there's the issue of how best to take advantage of the adjacency bonus. I'm already trying to put theatre squares next to wonders, holy sites and campuses next to mountains, commercial hubs next to rivers and harbors. Not to mention whatever civ specific bonuses might also be considered. I generally find my districts spread out to take best advantage of their natural adjacency bonus. There hardly ever is more than 1-2 districts that will naturally be placed where a govt plaza can benefit them.

My point is I always end up delaying a government plaza so long that the tier 1 plaza building benefits are usually well past their usefulness.

Anyway, does anyone have useful tips for getting government plaza early? Or is it really best to just put it off like I already do. I would like to get the Ancestral Hall up early, but I've often done 90% of my settling by the time i'm ready even build a govt plaza.

 

[Bliss]

For me, the general rule is:
Capital: campus first asap. government plaza as next district if 2nd city has good campus site.
2nd city: campus first if good adjacency bonuses. government plaza first if bad campus site.
So, my government plaza is at maximum the 3rd district I'll be building.

When I'm trying to get a religion
Capital: holy site, campus afterwards (or plaza if bad campus site).
2nd city: likely plaza first, but will build a campus instead if very good adjacency bonuses (in this case, capital gets plaza as empire's 4th district).

Btw. monuments usually first building in at least my 3~4 cities, unless coastal with good 1st ring tiles (granaries) or exceptional benefits.

 

[Tech Osen]

Another dilemma is that de government plaza also gives a city the same loyalty pressure as a capital. That bonus is lost when you build it in your capital or an early city that ends up far from borders after the expansion push settles down. But you want Ancestral Hall for that expansion push.

 

[Archon_Wing]

No, don't delay it. Early governor promotions are much more valuable than some extra adjacency.

I would literally put it down anywhere and build around it later. If you can, put it next to existing districts. You could put it near but not next to a mountain, because campus or holy site + 1 other adjacenct district + government plaza + mountain = 3

 

[SammyKhalifa]

No, don't delay it. Early governor promotions are much more valuable than some extra adjacency.

I would literally put it down anywhere and build around it later. If you can, put it next to existing districts. You could put it near but not next to a mountain, because campus or holy site + 1 other adjacenct district + government plaza + mountain = 3

If I can make it work, it's fun to place it so 2-3 (future) cities can share with it it and cluster a bunch of districts. Def shouldnt be first priority though.

 

[kaspergm]

While I think the extra governor promotions are easily worth the government plaza district I find I constantly put off building one till much later in the game
Why? There are always more important district to put up first. I prioritize campus/holy site/commercial hub/theatre square all above government plaza.

I'm very much in the same boat as you, but I think the key is that most (competitive) players will say: Skip the holy site. You can play perfectly fine without focusing on religion. I love myself to get a religion, and I think it has some advantages also, but the big disadvantage of religion is it means you have to postpone districts that are more essential.

 

[enKage]

CH every city, campus not every city early (too much investment if low adj, I skip unless rationalism on horizon), HS are overrated in science game and if I go for sth at 7pop it is often encampment for bonus hammers, so there is definitely a place for early gov plaza.The problem is you don't always have a valid place to take full advantage of it.
But GP alone is worthless. 1 tier building is powerful and this would be the main reasen for it, settler spam and workers or +20% hammers is very important

 

[The googles do nothing]

Remember there are policy cards for+50% for cities with +3 adjacency. So the easy way can be to use it on two adjoining CH on a River, CS next to a Reef or those black hole things, or HS near a natural wonder.

 

[linaker]

I like to build the GP in the second ring, so there are 6 slots available for that city's districts, wonders or as been suggested upthread, neighbouring cities' districts. But it's the buildings not the adjacency that make it worthwhile. My GP city is generally my settler city, so I am looking for one with lots of woods/jungle/stone etc. If it has no river or mountains, that's fine. I am happy with +1 adjacency and building settlers that can settle near mountains or rivers. With an ancestral hall, the +50% for settlers policy and Magnus, you can quickly churn out a string of settlers. And with Magnus' second promotion, you don't lose population, so chopping jungle, clearing marsh etc can net you a big population allowing you to lay down 2 or 3 other districts, Plus, the settlers then go and found cities that produce a builder. If you have beelined feudalism and have the pyramids, that's 6 charges to play with. It means some tile buying (but tiles are much cheaper than settlers) and you do need to be left with a few productive tiles to build the other districts, but it's a powerful way to expand.

The GP is also cheaper than other districts. You also can't really avoid researching state workforce, so not building it makes it harder to get the district discount. In my current game, I have researched astrology, built 2 holy sites, not researched writing or any other tech that enables a district, so my GP's cost is discounted. It only costs 39P, half the price of a granary.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I'm very much in the same boat as you, but I think the key is that most (competitive) players will say: Skip the holy site. You can play perfectly fine without focusing on religion. I love myself to get a religion, and I think it has some advantages also, but the big disadvantage of religion is it means you have to postpone districts that are more essential.

I agree Religion isn't worth it but I have to admit it does seem to make the game a little more fun for me.
I have been building my Govt Plaza mostly in the Capital but this thread makes perfect sense for the second city.
You get it up faster and can run Ping in your capital with Magnus in the Expo.
Ancestral Hall, No Pop Settlers... yada yada yada.
No wonder it takes me longer to win.

 

[Tabarnak]

Gov Plaza is needed for a fast Lvl3 Pingala. With a Magnus start you need it anyway to get fast culture or science bonus from Pingala.

Also, you can get a fast +2f/+2h from your first trade route if you send it to the Plaza owner.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Early game science and culture come from Pingala.

Late game science and culture come from massive number of campuses instead of some single ones.

I usually ignore the government plaza adj bonus, at least don't take it seriously. Only +1. 1 faith or 1 gold or 1 production in fact doesn't worth a lot and just ignored, 1 science or 1 culture does worth something.

 

[Galvatron]

I have so many good adjacency bonuses that I can't decide on where to place my plaza

That's not a problem.

 

[Victoria]

Great thread, shows just how much this game is superior than V when it comes to choices.

I like to be flexible and it does depend on a lot of things but first and foremost the plaza is very cheap to build early for an extra Governor charge and adjacency. Not sure I would spend gold on buying a tile for it but if gold is good and I’ll be using a double adjacency card then possibly, but that’s typically when I can get it being used by 2 harbour’s which is rare.

The building inside is more expensive early and typically it depends on which building, what governors and how much culture I have. It is Pin culture I find far more valuable than science normally, looking at 2 promotion Pin as an option and having Amani and Magnus or a double Magnus. Amani getting a good suze early gives powerful diplomacy points if trading it as well as a great suze. My city is not growing fast provision really helps. If I am building ancestral hall then do I need to early? For example I have an envoy in 2 military CS I can pump out settlers fast without AH for a bit before AH becomes more valuable. Warlords I can wait on but do I need Pinx3? Plus something else or just pinx3. Audience chamber I rarely use but when I do there is not such a rush depending on governor requirement.

bottom line is that you are always wanting to build something early, there is never enough time and due to governors the building is useful but not as vital as the plaza. Having 3 promotions to use is critical, having 4 is not so critical but still damn good. If throwing out lots of early troops for a big push or defence that takes precedent. Failing in an attack due to a warrior too few that you could have built is a fail. A key point is I cannot buy this handy building so it must be built while I can buy a monument or granary. I will rarely get a religion but will get a holy site and some of that depends on the pop of my capital city, settling on sugar or citrus for example. There are other considerations like the autocracy benefit on the plus side and just what should you be building early? Apart from army or some strategic eureka/inspiration build... it is settlers and AH is handy. You can also use the building as a bucket when you throw in stuff while waiting for a 50%/100% card.

I love the difficult decisions involved, the best players may always go pinx3 but I quite like variety or I would stop playing and some of the alternatives are still good.

 

[RealHuhn]

The government plaza boosts internal trade routes to the city by +1 food and +1 production, twice as good as other districts. That's a pretty good bonus for how cheap it is. The governor title is absolutely worth it as well.
Also important to build asap if you care about district discounts in early game. I only delay it if I absolutely cannot find a good place to build it which rarely happens and is probably not a good idea anyway.
I do prefer to unlock Early Empire before State Workforce though. So I'm not exactly rushing it.

 

[kryat]

I often find that I end up putting it in the Capitol and using it as a settler factory with Magnus’s settler promotion. 50% bonus to settlers and no population loss is pretty huge in the early game, since every settler produced feels like it just kills the producing city’s potential. You lose the loyalty and adjacency bonus, but the long term benefits are pretty substantial.

 

[bite]

I often find that I end up putting it in the Capitol and using it as a settler factory with Magnus’s settler promotion. 50% bonus to settlers and no population loss is pretty huge in the early game, since every settler produced feels like it just kills the producing city’s potential. You lose the loyalty and adjacency bonus, but the long term benefits are pretty substantial.

This is usually my plan as well, but quite often my plans don't survive first contact

 

[montalaar]

there is no dilemma for me. gov.plaza comes first in most cases in capital. current game its cost was FOUR turns in capital with focused production. it gave me other governor amani. it is a big deal for me. plus, not rarely it gives you one of two envoys, because of city state quest. it is simply no brainer in most situations.
also i will try chop ancestral hall for 50% settler production + free builder. with 50% settler card is no less than key for me to do early expansion. i just do not know how to expand fast enough without setup like this.

 

[iammaxhailme]

The governor's plaza is usually the second district I build (after a holy site.. I hate not securing a religion) and it's usually in my capiol. I don't care about the loyalty pressure (which is rarely a big issue). I just wnat to pop out ancestral hall and lots of settlers ASAP.

My bigger problem with the governor's plaza is that the choice of government buildings is very imbalanced. I want the ancestral hall 90% of the time and the intelligence agency 99% of the time

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

My bigger problem with the governor's plaza is that the choice of government buildings is very imbalanced. I want the ancestral hall 90% of the time and the intelligence agency 99% of the time

I agree with you there. Even if you are conquering cities the warlord's throne is not as useful as ancestral hall. You're always going to settle a few cities. Also, audience chamber is unnecessarily gimped. I think it was a failed attempt at encouraging 'tall'. the -2 loyalty penalty for cities that don't have a governor only encourages me to just not build that building.

Intelligence agency is undeniably great, but grandmasters chapel buy land units with faith can be pretty clutch sometimes too. My play style tends to have a lot of faith production so that weighs into it. If you just skip faith altogether I can see why intelligence agency is an auto-choice.