Government Type

Thats why the AIs constantly shift goverments between war and peace states.

For my tuppence-worth; you would do better to get your tips from MAS than from the AI. Try searching for posts from GOTM-AI (the GOTM staff used to have an AI play from the human's start position, and watch it in debug mode) to get a flavour of how comically incompetent the AI is.
Also bear in mind that the AI gets reduced anarchy periods as the levels increase, to compensate for their governmental capriciousness. As a human, it is only normally okay to switch governments to suit the situation if and only if you are REL.
 
EmpireMaker, Nergal may or may not be correct. While I haven't seen any proof that supports Nergal's theory of a preferred government bonus, that doesn't mean there isn't one. Perhaps there are more than that one effect (AI attitudes) for preferred and shunned governments.

Nergal can you show us? Screenshots or save files will suffice. Because if what you say is true, I suppose I'd better choose governments more wisely in the future. :sad:
 
Anyone who wins regularly above the Monarch level will almost always use Republic. It isn't lazy, it's just the best government overall. I'm still struggling at that level, and it usually is caused by my reluctance to revolt to Republic. I'm still learning to fiddle enough to keep the citizens happy. Why do the majority of higher level players use it? Simply because it's the best solution in most cases.
 
Anyone who wins regularly above the Monarch level will almost always use Republic. It isn't lazy, it's just the best government overall...

Monarchy seems to be more of a lazy choice than Republic, to me. With Monarchy, you plunk down a few MPs then fight your wars any day and any way you please. Republic requires more focused warmongering and management of citizens (which results in stronger gameplay anyway), but rewards the player with a stronger economy. A large pool of cash and high income provides flexibility, and allows me to pour funds into research or to cash-rush an instant military or sprout city improvements where needed. The biggest keys to a successful Republic for me have been making an early scramble to secure a few luxuries (to mitigate the WW penalty) and generating workers to road the hell out of everything (to maximize the commerce bonus). Also, studying some of the posts/articles here have greatly helped me to understand how WW really functions, and now I fight effective wars (even relatively long ones) without much weariness. I agree that certain instances or scenarios may call for a different government, but once you understand how to manage a Republic it seems the be the clear default choice.
 
Sorry for any delay i responding, but I'm fighting a dodgy internet connection and trying to make a valid response which isnt insulting.

Republic is touted by a lot of 'experienced' players as the only way to go. I say lazy because in a lot of cases its become a reflex style of play. We all do it, just get used to a specific pattern of research and building because we know the game instinctively. Thats bad, Civ is a, supposedly, random game and needs a flexible approach. Plus a lot of those players fail to explain why, mainly because they have been playing so long that Civ senility has crept in and they cant remember why, its almost a religion. Especially given the hostility that appears when another option is presented as possibly better.

I consider myself a pretty fair Monarch level player, I've had all the victories, bar Conquest, with a variety of Civs and I'm working on Conquest at the moment before heading up to Emperor. I play random games, even to the choice of Civ, given a fairish starting point I will go for it. This means adapting to the conditions presented. Under normal conditions I can outpace the AI at settlement and research in the early years. And REX is the key to the game, it means grabbing those resources and luxuries before the AI gets its grubby little hands on them. It generally means I can hit a Republic slingshot at 4-6 towns in play. These are small towns with only a few workers to hand. Barbarians are rife so I've got warriors and maybe archers out exploring and grabbing cash from the barbarian ATM points. Because of my tech research and trading it means that I've basically ripped off all the AIs I've met for all their techs and cash and they are mostly annoyed, or cautious if I've got enough troops. Its not all bad though, 4-6 tsmall towns will go through Anarchy quickly with little or no civil unrest.

Remember these forums are read by experienced and novice players alike so its worth pointing out reasons in full.

Republic provides roughly 1.5 times as much income as Monarchy, thats total income to the Civ as a whole. Maintenenance remains the same, but unit support shoots through the roof, hey disband some troops. The corruption figure goes up a huge amount as well, but thats a percentage so it will. Tech percentage remains the same but more commerce means more beakers per turn hence faster research. More than likely the towns dont have temples, or luxuries, hooked up so the entertainment slider needs to go up This might mean lowering the tech slider, with luck it still means an overall profit in terms of beakers per turn. It gets rid of the Depotism penalty so irrigated grassland provides more food and towns begin growing. All sounds ok so far.

BUT, its still early, there is a lot of unclaimed land and that means barbarians, who will pillage improvements, kill a garrison of one, destroy production and population and workers as well as trash that pot of money garnered from tech trading. I've seen 500gp reduced to 30 by a single barbarian horde. And barbarians are useful, a good source of income and a way of turning regular, or even conscript troops, into elites.

Unclaimed land means that I probably dont have resources covered, so no horsemen, if I've got the tech, and not enough roads for a reasonable mobile defense force. Lowering the garrisons means vulnerability to barbarians and AIs will always take advantage if they can. Disbanding warriors or archers means a loss in shields invested and my ability to gather income from barbarians as well as techs from goody huts. And I dont have the luxuries to lower the entertainment slider, plus as I'm focussing on growth no Temples to keep the populace happy.

If I do get into a war, which is likely at this stage of the game, WW and unit costs could kill my tech research completely, voiding the advantage of being able to drive loads of commerce into tech research. And techs are cheap, I can easily sell my 'must haves' to the AI for all the ones I need to hit Medieval.

On the other hand Monarchy, which is harder to get than Republic, for all its cost provides significant advantages at this stage of the game. Garrisons protect the town, and keep people happy, even with WW, which is lower in Monarchy anyway. Troop costs are lower, there is no need to hit the lux slider, at least until Emperor level and corruption isnt a huge issue at a low number of small towns. As I said war is likely, as Monarchy I can destroy my neighbours, taking their resources and luxuries without making the towns unhappy. On the bonus side they should be small so complete wipe out is possible before WW rears its head. I couldnt do that in Republic and still keep my tech research up.

Overall I'd prefer to take the Republic slingshot, ignore the option to revolt and head for Monarchy. Trading Code of Laws and Republic, possibly, will get me all the other Techs to hit Medieval. Warring my neighbours down to 1 town apiece gets me loads of land, resources and luxuries plus any techs they might have. With luck I can net most of the early Wonders out of it too. In some case I've ended up with SoZ, KT, Sun Tzu and Leos without having to contribute a single shield other than in terms of military hardware. As a bonus I'm normally fielding Cavalry, have a few armies in play and building Heroic Epic, Military Academy and the Pentagon. My workers and the stack of foreign ones I've gathered are busy cleaning up my huge empire so its a good time to sit down and go Republic. Depending on the Civ my first build in a captured town will be a Temple, or a Library, usually both. Anarchy might take me 6 turns, or one if I'm Religious, then its high speed for Fission and a Diplomatic Victory, possibly Domination or Cultural, I've only got as far as Spaceship once.

And the end of the day its down to playing style. I suspect giving the AI Republic, in trade, limits their ability to wage war and its too early for them to go to Communism or Fascism which they normally do. I see a lot of AI troops and workers disband, in one game France disbanded 8 workers over 2 turns, they were in Republic and had small scattered towns. By the time I've got the AI down to a few towns they are small and starving down, I thought they were pop rushing until I realised it was WW preventing them from working food tiles. They might have a good few in their garrison, but they are regular cheap troops because they have sold the barracks and cant produce anything else quickly enough. I have yet to be beaten to the ToE, and normally stay ahead of the AI for most of the game. I'm slowly improving my techniques and lowering my win time. The latest is around 1900 AD, my current best around 1760 AD, thats a standard map and unaccelerated production. Better micro mangement and an earlier shift to Republic might help lower it still. I'm still experimenting.

I hope that gives a balanced view of Monarchy vs Republic. I think Republic has its part to play, it depends on the Civ, the Maya would produce like crazy under Republic, and given a peaceful setting be hard to beat for growth and commerce.
 
Do you play in any of the XOTM games, Nergal? A fair test would be you vs a staunch Republican.. err, republic player of about the same level. Winner is the one with the higher score. IMO, yes, you can play well as either a Republic or a Monarchy, but you're probably going to get better scores as a Republic if that's your preferred government. Not everyone can manage a republic, it is definitely more difficult to manage. I'm not totally against Monarchy, as I use it all the time in my AW succession games. But unless I'm constantly at war, republic works better.
 
I can manage a Republic as well as a Monarchy, its not an issue its just a matter of checking it every turn and tweaking. If you mean the GOTM I'm considering it because I would like to compare results. My net connection is seriously affected at the moment so downloading is an issue. I'm just playing a game as the Indians, they are awful, but I can probably squeeze a few years off my PB for a diplomatic victory. I've been mostly in Republic as the early war phase didnt take long (Celts, round here, nope never heard of them?) . The main problem is bad terrain, lots of mountains and jungle, most of the jungle is cleared though. But that means slow growth. Its a balancing act. I was tempted to revert to Monarchy and take some better land, but thats time as well. Democracy looks quite a good option, but if anything its worse for warring than Republic.
 
Score schmore, fastest finish is what gets the kudos in GOTM. I hadn't really considered whether Monarchy or Republic would accrue more Firaxis points; we tend to favour Republic because it gets you to your VC sooner. Mind you, I played the sid game in Monarchy, as I knew my units were going to get toasted in vast numbers. In fact, I went so far as to base some of my military strategies around letting the AI take my towns :crazyeye: Couldn't have done that in Republic!
 
Fastest finish is my yardstick too. This game went to Diplomatic in 1768, which is about my third game to finish around that year. But score wise it was down about a 1000 points on the others due to terrain. I did spend longer in Republic and given decent terrain then bigger towns would have given me more beakers so it could have been a quicker finish.
 
I enjoy building up to about ten towns, then going to Republic and staying there until I have won the continent. Then I go for Democracy or Communism depending on whether I feel peaceful or conquestful.

For me the secret is balance,to take advantage of the Republic research speed advantage, you have to actually use the techs you get. When I learn currency for example, I stop whatever war I am fighting, and build marketplaces in all the core towns- and make sure all the worked tiles are roaded so I get max benefit from having built the markets. Then, I go back to war and take another lux ; again to get max benefit from the markets I just built. That way the civ is working together to reach a common goal for the common good, rather than just whacking on the neighbours "just because we can".

I think building stuff leads to better planning which leads to a stronger game.
 
I'm in the middle, well nearing the end of an experimental conquest game as the Spanish. Started by going for the Monarchy slingshot with Philosophy, which is hard on Monarch level. got it and killed Rome and the Aztecs. Then shifted to Republic while I slaughtered Shaka and Temujin, which went fine. Then the Chinese attacked me in their nefarious fashion. They were second in power, the capital they shifted to is now on an island with 3 other towns, but all the tiles have mysteriously suffered bomb damage and are mostly size 1 with no garrison, tsk tsk well accidents happen. I now control most of the happy wonders and plenty of lux but WW was still killing me. One of my size 17 towns could just about manage 4 happy people if all the rest were comedians. So I went for a shift to Communism, which took 2 turns of anarchy. A huge difference. The majority of my citizens are happy, WLTKD everywhere, after shuffling people around, no WW for me. The interesting thing is that having got rid of huge support costs for the army, and entertainment slider too. I'm actually researching faster than under Republic. Its an island game and my towns on outlying islands are actually producing pretty well. From 55 turns for Mech inf to 10. I think the only drawback with CivAssist is it cant show effects like losing all WW.
 
Back
Top Bottom