Government Types

[Vaney168]

Hello Everyone

I’m new here, I have been playing Civ3 for sometime but could never really decide which government type is the best to use, I usually stick to using Republic because it seems like it generates more gold per turn and the science research seems higher as well, but what are some of the advantages to using the other types of governments, Democracy, aside from the war awareness, I never really understood what the difference is between it and the Republic. So my questions are

1) What’s the difference between Republic and Democracy? How can I use them to my advantage?

2) What would a Fascist government be good for? What advantages does it have?

3) What use would communism have? Is it worth switching to?

I’m sorry about any bad spelling, English is not my first language

 

[vmxa]

Speaking for C3C (Conquest) Republic is about the best choice for most games. Monarchy for games where you are going to be at war nearly all the time as typicially WW is too much for Republic.

Democracy is not worth the many cost imo. You have to learn too many optional techs, you have to revolt again.

All governments can make sense, but most are for only some very specialist games.

Communism I dislike, again I have to learn Nat and Commie and I do not need those techs. I have to revolt again and this at a time when I should be making progress. I dislike shared corruption.

It makes you spend time and shields on towns that could have been just fine making scientist or artillery or workers or settlers. It is best when you have a very large empire, but if I have that why do I need to switch or learn optional techs?

 

[Vaney168]

Speaking for C3C (Conquest) Republic is about the best choice for most games. Monarchy for games where you are going to be at war nearly all the time as typicially WW is too much for Republic.

Democracy is not worth the many cost imo. You have to learn too many optional techs, you have to revolt again.

All governments can make sense, but most are for only some very specialist games.

Communism I dislike, again I have to learn Nat and Commie and I do not need those techs. I have to revolt again and this at a time when I should be making progress. I dislike shared corruption.

It makes you spend time and shields on towns that could have been just fine making scientist or artillery or workers or settlers. It is best when you have a very large empire, but if I have that why do I need to switch or learn optional techs?

That’s why I tend to try and avoid Democracy because I thought it was pretty much similar to Republic and it doesn’t have any unit support either. I have noticed in games when I have played in the middle ages tech research goes faster under a republic govnt compared to a Monarchy but I usually get attacked. I have never tried communist of fascist governments, are they better for war?

 

[MysteryX]

Democracy is worthwhile when I play with the Religious trait. Anarchy is limited to one turn, the reduced corruption makes a significant difference, lower unit cost fielding 50+ units. I have to fight short wars with enough peace in between to bring down the war weariness, and I am familiar with the factors that add to war weariness so I can manage it well. I have to research dead-end techs to get it, but I can trade those techs and the economic benefit from Democracy will help my further research go all the faster.

Democracy is a bad choice for anyone whose strategy involves more war than peace. But then again, the Religious trait isn't a great choice for a more war-oriented strategy, either.

 

[vmxa]

If your are in a Monarchy, it is to war. So the way to make it research better is to use the troops to take lots of land and make lots of farms of scientist.

MysteryX, you still spent the time to research those techs and prevent you from getting to Steam by two tech, plus the revolt. Steam is a game breaker, Demo is not.

 

[bigFRANK]

Republic to democracy makes sense towards the end of the game when you’re looking to build some fairly expensive units outside your first ring of cities. The big downside of course is the period of anarchy that you’re going to suffer swapping, for none religious civs I wouldn’t swap unless your end plan is something like the space race.

Fascism is disliked by most but it does have a couple of advantages; you can use upto 4MP’s per city, a 1worker/1slave combo will rail a grassland/desert/plain in one turn if its been roaded previously and free unit support is huge late in the game. Disadvantage are that you cant cash rush developments, any city that you capture will loose a larger than normal part of its population and you wont gain any culture out of captured cities until such time as the city is over half populated by your own people. Also its an optional tech dead end tech.

My dalliances with communism show it has epic unit support and a lower fringe corruption rate (in a bigger empire) than many alternative government types, you also get a 3rd centre (secret police HQ) for stamping out corruption. Major downside is that again you cant cash rush, your also more likely to be producing shields (and therefore units) instead of specialist science beakers in some of your food rich towns.

 

[Vaney168]

I usually seem to generate more income per turn under a Republic but I had wanted to know the advantages using other types of governments as well, so it seems you’re also saying that corruption is not as bad under democracy compared to republic. I guess having a communist government could be a benefit with sharing corruption but how much corruption is it, does it go by how big your empire is, does it effect the production of your core cities?

 

[MysteryX]

Democracy also has the benefit of increased worker production, which helps building those rails faster.

Though I have been thinking about it, the reduced corruption of Democracy may not really be as much of a benefit if I made more use of specialists outside my core and stop trying to make too many outlying settlements be productive settlements. I may try playing a game or two where I save before the switch to Democracy, play it out once and second time with Republic, and get a feel for how it really compares.

 

[Theov]

See my sig for more info on governments in C3C.
And the answer to your question is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459861
Under Democracy, your workers work faster and there's less corruption. However, your army costs more money and if you're at war, the WW is higher.

Republic
A.k.a.: Repo
For republics big enough to support their military; fighting short succesful wars. Long wars will cost you to keep your population happy.
Most popular government because of the commerce bonus, the low WW and because there's less corruption than under Monarchy and Despotism.

Worker Efficiency: 100%
Hurry Methoday citizens
Corruption: Nuisance
War Weariness: Low
Draft Rate: 1
Military Police Limit: 0
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 1/3/4
Notes: Military over the cap cost 2 gpt.
Adds 1 commerce to any tile already producing at least 1 = the commerce bonus.
(Also in Democracy)


Democracy
A.k.a.: Demo
For peaceful builders, not planning to be at war anytime soon. Requires good diplomatic skills to stay out of war.

Worker Efficiency: 150%
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Minimal
War Weariness: High
Draft Rate: 1
Military Police Limit: 0
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 0/0/0
Notes: Cities immune from propaganda.
Adds 1 commerce to any tile already producing at least 1 = the commerce bonus.

 

[Vaney168]

I guess it makes up for it in the worker efficiency and the low corruption which is nice for the end, I usually get stuck in wars in the end of the game however especially playing on the higher difficulty, Id Use Democracy for peaceful building in this case and Republic to win short wars. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Vaney168]

I’m playing a game as the Russians right now, would anyone be willing to make a suggestion, I’m trying to pick between a Fascist and a Communist government, Most of my cities are between the 8-12 size, I got a few luxuries (gems, Incense and furs) and I’m stuck, I need to expand I also read about fav and shunned government, what is that supposed to mean?

 

[Theov]

I’m playing a game as the Russians right now, would anyone be willing to make a suggestion, I’m trying to pick between a Fascist and a Communist government, Most of my cities are between the 8-12 size, I got a few luxuries (gems, Incense and furs) and I’m stuck, I need to expand I also read about fav and shunned government, what is that supposed to mean?

What the AI is most likely to choose.
Fav gov is repo, then AI will favor a move to repo.
Shunned gov is Commie, then AI will steer away from communism.
It doesn't mean you get a rep hit like in civ4.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

I also thought favored government affects the AI's attitude to you, that they like you more if you're int their favored system...

I've never used fascism, but have read here on the forums that if you have a small empire and need to catch up milatarily, it can help with its high unit support, high MP limit and effective workers.

Feudalism has an interesting place. Again, I read on the forums it can be used towards a cultural victory with an agricultural civ (extra food so rapid population growth). Build alarge sprawling empire and population rush cultural buildings in the corrupt periphery. Unit support is actually higher in small population towns, so pop rushing keeps the size down and your unit support up. I kept getting into trouble with happiness though as pop rushing produces unhappy citizens.

 

[Vaney168]

If that is so, Ill have to pick my govt carefully, I have a small empire so I think a Fascist government might do best, but I have never used this type of government before and I dont like the idea of the culture not being produced and cities losing pop points

 

[PaperBeetle]

Feudalism has an interesting place. Again, I read on the forums it can be used towards a cultural victory with an agricultural civ (extra food so rapid population growth). Build alarge sprawling empire and population rush cultural buildings in the corrupt periphery. Unit support is actually higher in small population towns, so pop rushing keeps the size down and your unit support up. I kept getting into trouble with happiness though as pop rushing produces unhappy citizens.

No reason to restrict it AGR civs. Feudalism doesn't carry the despo tile penalty, so you can irrigate all your corrupt lands, turning them into whip farms. It works well for all the low-tech VCs, as long as you are prepared to be ruthless with that whip.
Pop rushing may produce unhappy citizens, but it also reduces unhappy citizens.

 

[Theov]

I also thought favored government affects the AI's attitude to you, that they like you more if you're int their favored system...

.

That's implemented in Civ4 - not in civ 3. As for reputation, the AI doesn't care what your government is.

I don't have experience running Fascism or Feudalism.

 

[Ataxerxes]

That's implemented in Civ4 - not in civ 3. As for reputation, the AI doesn't care what your government is.

I don't have experience running Fascism or Feudalism.

IIRC favored government matters quite a bit in Civ 3. If you and the AI are in their preferred government type their attitude is +5. If you are in their proscribed government type you get -5. That's why I always have Egypt hating my guts because I go for Republic early. I don't play AW games so am always in Republic.

Civ 4 works differently. You get a bonus for running the favorite civic but there is no particular civic they will hate you for. Religion in Civ 4 will get you plus or minus.

 

[Theov]

IIRC favored government matters quite a bit in Civ 3. If you and the AI are in their preferred government type their attitude is +5. If you are in their proscribed government type you get -5. That's why I always have Egypt hating my guts because I go for Republic early. I don't play AW games so am always in Republic.

Civ 4 works differently. You get a bonus for running the favorite civic but there is no particular civic they will hate you for. Religion in Civ 4 will get you plus or minus.

Well, Ataxerxes, I did not know that.
Look what I found:

-1 You are in the same government as the AI (of course at the start, everyone is in despotism).
Because everyone is in despot in the beginning, this gives the impression that a higher aggression level gives the default 0 (cautious). Start at 0, -1 for same government, then +1 for aggression level of 4 on chieftain for example, brings it back to 0.

AI’s favorite/shunned governments:
-5 Favorite government (only applies if both you and the AI are in this government)
+4 Shunned government (only applies if you are in this government and the AI is not)

The worst that can happen is you switch from the AI’s favorite government, that you both are in, then only you switch to the AI’s shunned government (net result +9). An example would be if you switch from despotism to republic and Egypt, Zulu, or Celts stays in despotism or goes to Monarchy. Or you go to Monarchy and the Aztecs stay in Despotism or goes to Republic. Mongols is the other civ that favors despotism, but democracy is their shunned government.

For the most part, the AI is in Republic-Democracy while at peace and monarchy-communism while at war, regardless of what their favorite/shunned government is. So even though there are an even 6 AI for both republic and Monarchy, the Republic would apply more often for favorite government because the AI would also be in that same government. For attitude purposes, republic would only be bad for you if most of the other AI is still in despotism or going to a war-time government because of wars. If you are still in despotism, while the rest of the world has switched governments (more frequently seen on higher levels), you’ll see the AI attitudes worsen.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44999

 

[scratchthepitch]

Vaney168

If you have a lot of units, the benefit of higher commerce in both republic and democracy can get eaten up by this. But on the other hand, you probably wont have to move the science slider as high to get the same amount of science spending.

A good way to see how all the different governments work would be to have a revolution at various stages of a game. On the the turn before the anarchy ends, save the game. Then go on to the next turn and pick your government and note down the specs of your empire. Then reload the save and go through the process over for each government you want to test. This will show the strengths and weaknesses of each at that point in the game. Try it as you get new government advances in a test game where you research all the government advances. A game done this way should give you a good hands-on experience and knowledge of how these different governments will work in a game.

 

[timerover51]

IIRC favored government matters quite a bit in Civ 3. If you and the AI are in their preferred government type their attitude is +5. If you are in their proscribed government type you get -5. That's why I always have Egypt hating my guts because I go for Republic early. I don't play AW games so am always in Republic.

Civ 4 works differently. You get a bonus for running the favorite civic but there is no particular civic they will hate you for. Religion in Civ 4 will get you plus or minus.

Would this be the reason that I always find myself at war with India, sooner rather than later, if India is in the game? I use a modified Monarchy, and India's preferred government is Democracy.