GPT better than lump sums?

[Bismarck]

Theory: it's much better to get gpt deals from the AI than lump sums. Even though gpt deals are evaluated at slightly below their actual value (0.9?), I strongly suspect the AI tries to operate on a balanced budget (running expenses less than or equal to income). Hence, gpt deals will seriously cramp the AI's scientific research program.

A human might be willing to incur a short-term deficit while racing for a particular technology, especially if he has a large gold surplus. If I'm correct, the AI is not willing to do the same. Hence, anything that decreases its income (such as gpt payments) will eat into the AI's scientific spending.

Comments?

 

[MTheil3508]

I have seen the AI (in later eras) give double, even triple digits gpt for technology, luxuries, maps, etc.

But the AI will not give you gpt if you have broken any deals, at least for a VERY long time.

 

[civ_steve]

Either one depletes the AI treasury and builds up yours. Certain traits desire certain Techs; they will pay exorbitant prices to get those techs, which assures your dominance in the later stages of the game.

I will sometimes off a low gpt offer to the AI early on to give them a reason not to attack me. A gpt offer is a 20 turn commitment and either side breaking it causes serious reputation damage.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Only if the AI keeps their end of the deal thru... And sometimes, you get involved (dragged into, really) in wars with them and have to break the deal yourself too.

But generally, it's workable I think.

 

[DaveMcW]

Originally posted by Bismarck
A human might be willing to incur a short-term deficit while racing for a particular technology, especially if he has a large gold surplus. If I'm correct, the AI is not willing to do the same. Hence, anything that decreases its income (such as gpt payments) will eat into the AI's scientific spending.

You are on the right track. The AI will sacrifice research in order to balance their budget.

But the AI will not adjust their research rate in order to buy techs from a human. (I'm not sure about AI-AI trades yet.) This means they will research at the same rate after you drain their income. The really huge gpt payments come from AIs that have already gotten rich selling techs - they are paying you with other people's money!

Large gpt payments do catch up though. When the old AI-AI deal expires, they will not be able to continue paying you and will cut their science. You can help make this happen by giving the same techs to all civs, so the former science leader has nothing to sell to raise money.

 

[Aggie]

Thank you for this insight DaveMcW

If I understand you correctly, the following will occur:

AI-1 has a gpt deal with AI-2 and makes huge amounts of gpt
I have a tech AI-1 wants and get a great gpt deal with him. AI-2 also gets this tech from me.
After the deal between AI-1 and AI-2 expires, AI-1 must reduce the tech rate and AI-2 must deal with me for techs. Now I have gpt deals with both AI's.

I always trade a tech to anyone that pays a fair amount of gold, resources or luxuries. This makes it even more important.

 

[Effing]

You can earn a little extra money if you offer your trade partners a certain lump sum and then say you want a certain amount of gpt, which if summed up is more than the gold you gave them, they will accept nontheless. I don't think it's really a trick, you just give them a loan with some (sometimes quite high) interest. I think it's also good for your rep.

 

[Gothmog]

I like gpt deals for the rep boost it gives you. Also it gives the AI a reason not to attack you. Actually though, I think the AI doesn't really care about losing the gpt deal. It is more that the deal gives it a better opinion of you and so it is less likely to attack for that reason. At least you do get some increased income if they do attack you.

In a game I was playing last night I had a 100gpt deal with persia and they were Polite towards me. After they made peace with America, they tried to extort me for 75gp+territory map. When I declined they declared war and lost 14 more turns of 100 gpt. Although they were twice as powereful as I, they were mostly gassed from their war with america and their remaining army was half way across the large pangia map. I quickly signed up the Iroquoi for some spices and Otto for 400 gp. X-man you have chosen unwisely.

 

[peace_frog]

Originally posted by DaveMcW



But the AI will not adjust their research rate in order to buy techs from a human. (I'm not sure about AI-AI trades yet.) This means they will research at the same rate after you drain their income. The really huge gpt payments come from AIs that have already gotten rich selling techs - they are paying you with other people's money!

------

I don't think that is true. In my current game I am playing the tech broker angle and am earning at least 50 gp/t from each tech, and much more from some. They can't all be earning that from other civs. Sometimes I think they will limit what they will pay to their current surplus rate, but when I broker an advanced tech, I get offers of upwards of 100 gp/ turn. I think they must slide their scale to achieve that.

Pete

 

[DaveMcW]

My point was they will not slide their scale just to buy a new tech. But over a long period of buying techs they will slowly lower their science rate if you keep up the pressure on their treasury.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
My point was they will not slide their scale just to buy a new tech. But over a long period of buying techs they will slowly lower their science rate if you keep up the pressure on their treasury.

Yep, keeping the AI poor seems like a good thing to me.

Besides, raking everything off the top from all the AI keeps your treasury/cash flow where you want it. But, I always take their cash first and then bargain on the GPT.

 

[MummyMan]

I like gpt myself, but keeping the AI poor is a good idea too, especially when accepting gpt that is too much for the AI to pay often results in them declaring war, which usually sucks.

 

[planetfall]

Don't forget the mixture trade: XXX lump sum + YYY gpt. This sometimes works to get gold now and use a small gpt number to boost reputation.

== PF

 

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by MTheil3508
I have seen the AI (in later eras) give double, even triple digits gpt for technology, luxuries, maps, etc.

But the AI will not give you gpt if you have broken any deals, at least for a VERY long time.

...and it will actually pay more for techs if you're playing on the higher difficulty levels!

But its not correct that the AI will not give you gpt if you have broken any deals. If you have broken deals, then the AI will still accept all kind of deals involving maps, techs, gold, resources or gold per turn except deals that involves the AI giving anything instant (map, tech, gold) and you giving resources and/or gold per turn.

After all, its not dangerous for the AI to give you x gpt for a tech or even a resource. If you attack, it will simply stop paying you the rest of the gold. But it is dangerous for the AI to give you a tech and get x gpt in return. Then you may attack the next turn and stop paying the gold.