Granaries: Don't do things half way

[ahcos]

Okay, i'm not pretending to fully understand everything what Kossin wrote - but isn't it just good enough to time the growth approximately to ~2 turns when Granary finishes? Seriously, i love micro, but that kinda stuff is just way beyond my interest in the game

 

[vicawoo]

Okay, i'm not pretending to fully understand everything what Kossin wrote - but isn't it just good enough to time the growth approximately to ~2 turns when Granary finishes? Seriously, i love micro, but that kinda stuff is just way beyond my interest in the game

As I said in the other thread, if you complete it more than halfway through your food bar, just stop growth the turn you would grow, and it will usually have optimally handled the situation.

 

[kossin]

This example doesn't illustrate the fact that overflow food gets counted twice. I've seen it happen all the time. In the example above, what does the code say would happen in we have 28/30 food, +6F/turn and only 6F in the granary storage?

1. Update food bar: 28+6 = 34
2. Update granary: 6+6 = 12
3. Cap granary: min (12, 30/2) = 12
4. Remove food to grow: 34 - (30 - 12) = 16
5. Add one pop size 5 >> 6

The red part is the contribution of that turn's +6 food.

Okay, i'm not pretending to fully understand everything what Kossin wrote - but isn't it just good enough to time the growth approximately to ~2 turns when Granary finishes? Seriously, i love micro, but that kinda stuff is just way beyond my interest in the game

For normal speed, just use these charts if you want max efficiency. If you can't hit the number shown, go below it preferably.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11403278&postcount=10

 

[ahcos]

As I said in the other thread, if you complete it more than halfway through your food bar, just stop growth the turn you would grow, and it will usually have optimally handled the situation.

... So you work a good tile one turn later? The city would have to grow really big afterwards to really leverage that advantage, and in my games i can seldom grow my cities that big by the time i have granary. So why would i want to wait?

 

[vicawoo]

... So you work a good tile one turn later? The city would have to grow really big afterwards to really leverage that advantage, and in my games i can seldom grow my cities that big by the time i have granary. So why would i want to wait?

because (double) food is usually worth more than your 3rd or 4th tile.

 

[ahcos]

because (double) food is usually worth more than your 3rd or 4th tile.

When i can't grow any further? Given i have a happycap of 4 for example?

Well, whatever, i'll just take your word for it as you're a code digger or something alike. But stopping growth on size2 just to get the full advantage of the granary seems... Well, whatever. It's just that i have enough games, even on Deity, where happiness is rare and not tradeable until like 500 BC, but where i still want granaries to 2pop whip Axes/Swords, Workers etc just to regrow faster (and ofc for the time happiness is available to grow bigger faster). In those games, more food seems like pure waste that early as i can't grow very big anyway. Rather stagnate as fast as possible at size 3 or 4.
And when happiness is available i already have the granary and just work the food.

So ... wait with granaries until i have happiness? Seems wrong too. They are useful even with a low happy cap, or at least it seems so oO

 

[kossin]

Are you referring to the 'stop growth' button or to micro tiles to stagnate?

Stop growth comes out behind... whatever you gain from the granary, you lose from stagnating.

 

[ahcos]

Are you referring to the 'stop growth' button or to micro tiles to stagnate?

Stop growth comes out behind... whatever you gain from the granary, you lose from stagnating.

Not quite sure what problem you're adressing, but i surely do not use the "stop growth" button, as it doesn't work properly anyway.

 

[kossin]

It works as intended But it is wasteful... you're better to micro onto hammer tiles/specialists if you want to prevent growth.

 

[Um the Muse]

When i can't grow any further? Given i have a happycap of 4 for example?

Well, whatever, i'll just take your word for it as you're a code digger or something alike. But stopping growth on size2 just to get the full advantage of the granary seems... Well, whatever. It's just that i have enough games, even on Deity, where happiness is rare and not tradeable until like 500 BC, but where i still want granaries to 2pop whip Axes/Swords, Workers etc just to regrow faster (and ofc for the time happiness is available to grow bigger faster). In those games, more food seems like pure waste that early as i can't grow very big anyway. Rather stagnate as fast as possible at size 3 or 4.
And when happiness is available i already have the granary and just work the food.

So ... wait with granaries until i have happiness? Seems wrong too. They are useful even with a low happy cap, or at least it seems so oO

The stop growth thing was supposed to be only for one turn. Not one turn every time your city is going to grow bigger.

More food is very useful if you're whipping and you have enough surplus happiness. And you're willing to watch your city's growth rates.

If you're planning on stagnating at size four, then you might as well not build the granary at all.

 

[vale]

There are some very specific cities where stop growth outperforms "normal" methods for 2 pop whipping a granary. However, in such cities, the wisdom of 2-pop whipping a granary as opposed to chopping or 1-pop whipping from size 2 is dubious.

In general in fact the choice of 2-pop whipping a granary is dubious in most cities that don't have multiple strong food tiles.

 

[ahcos]

If you're planning on stagnating at size four, then you might as well not build the granary at all.

I'm not planning to stagnate @ 4 forever, it's just that i often can't grow any bigger than size4 FOR THE MOMENT. Granaries still can be very useful in those situations, for instance as you can 2pop whip, grow back, and use the food surplus to stagnate and shrink on hills or specialists while sharing the food.

If i'm stuck @ size 4 with grassland cows and 4 green hills, i might aswell not build the granary for the moment, that's right.