Granary or Shrine?

Athenaeum

Prince
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Say you're going straight to writing, because you either want to try to build the GL (God help you) or just get an early National College.

You build the monument on the way to pottery. Now on the way to writing, you have time for either a Granary or a Shrine. Which one do you build and why?

With the Shrine, MAYBE you have time to build a scout before writing.
 
I build the granary over the shrine because it gives the needed food for continued growth. A shrine could wait really because faith, like a grain of mustard gets to grow really big even when you ger a late shrine and can no longer get a pantheon. granary gives way better food than shrines sometimes unless you have sun god resourcesand belief.
 
It kind of depends on the map layout. If you have a shot at say Desert Folklore and a good religion afterwards, definitely go Shrine before Granary. If you're the first to meet a religious CS, then it's even better
 
My take: it depends on who you are playing.

I always build 2 scouts with a focus on maximum growth whilst researching Pottery. I then make a decision like so:
Monument if no culture ruin
Granary if granary resources
Shrine if faith producing pantheon available.

If playing Spain I won't build a shrine until I know what NW(s) is(are) nearby. If playing the Huns all I care about are pastures so its monument and worker/settlers/units.

...If you're the first to meet a religious CS...
If this happens I change production immediately to build a shrine to take advantage of that 8 faith.
 
Religious CS could really vary on a shrine decision, but I would still continue with granary because in usual tradition starts, happiness rises quick. Religious cses nearby appear too often to build an early shrine.
 
In my experience, switching to full production halfway through Granary can give you time to get shrine off afterwards, then you can pop GL if you think you can, while granary food boost will keep you growing at least a bit while focusing on production. But it's probably only possible when you have a good production spot for capital.
 
If you get a granary start and beeline to calendar instead you can get the Stonehenge. Stonehenge will get you +5 faith per turn when done which is so much more faith than the shrine and not only that you can catch up on your religion beliefs and the pantheon.
 
For me it varies on the situation.

If I have 2 or more deer, wheat or Banana I think it's silly not to prioritize the granary but for me its usually shrine first
 
For me it varies on the situation.

If I have 2 or more deer, wheat or Banana I think it's silly not to prioritize the granary but for me its usually shrine first

Hopefully you get that sun god pantheon in ttime.
 
I think it depends on the terrain. However, an early pantheon at the cost of a few turns hard build on a Shrine makes sense in most games where you bee-line writing.
 
Some pantheons are worth competing for. Sun god can easily be taken by others though. If its not taken then you can always get another pantheon that can benefit you in other ways if the terrain can be useful for it.
 
It really depends on starting position.

For me it varies on the situation.

If I have 2 or more deer, wheat or Banana I think it's silly not to prioritize the granary but for me its usually shrine first

Yes, same here.
 
It really depends on starting position.



Yes, same here.

If a starting position doesn't have a good pantheon belief benefit then I wouldn't start out with an shrine because if I end up with holy waters or god king that would be useful at least.
 
Religion is really important IMHO. So, I'm trying hard to get a religion in all games.
 
A tradition start won't always guarantee you a religion in deity but piety could be more likely to get you a religion. If all else fails then just take it easy. .
 
A tradition start won't always guarantee you a religion in deity but piety could be more likely to get you a religion. If all else fails then just take it easy. .

:lol: If you're on Deity, starting Piety is about the worst thing you can do for yourself.... (starting Piety is just suboptimal on every difficulty.... the opportunity cost you are paying is far too high for what you're getting out of it).


The half priced shrines are not going to be doing much for you when the AI can (and in many cases, will) build a Shrine on Turn 1, due to getting Free Pottery. You are (very) much better off forgoing a religion at all (unless you're Ethiopia or another Civ with early, easy access to faith) and just focus on playing the inexorable catchup game.
 
:lol: If you're on Deity, starting Piety is about the worst thing you can do for yourself.... (starting Piety is just suboptimal on every difficulty.... the opportunity cost you are paying is far too high for what you're getting out of it).


The half priced shrines are not going to be doing much for you when the AI can (and in many cases, will) build a Shrine on Turn 1, due to getting Free Pottery. You are (very) much better off forgoing a religion at all (unless you're Ethiopia or another Civ with early, easy access to faith) and just focus on playing the inexorable catchup game.

That true but the other social policies won't guarantee you a religion like piety does. Its true that you get better with other non-piety starts that you can do better with, but the guy was asking for a religion. Either that or starting with ethiopia and building a Stele which already has 2 faith per turn from the start.
 
That true but the other social policies won't guarantee you a religion like piety does. Its true that you get better with other non-piety starts that you can do better with, but the guy was asking for a religion. Either that or starting with ethiopia and building a Stele which already has 2 faith per turn from the start.

Something to understand about Piety itself: it does not guarantees a religion, especially on Deity.

If you are on Deity, on a Civilization that does not provide Faith very, very early on, and you start Piety instead (of Tradition), you are pigeon-holing yourself into a few possible scenarios (none of which are particularly pleasant):

- You are unable to found a Pantheon because the AI is still faster at it, and therefore unable to found a religion.
- You found are able to found a pantheon (and with a high probability that you will end up with a less-than-useful pantheon), but you are still unable to found a religion, because the AI will have 2-4 cities with Shrines, will be the first to Philosophy/Temples, and will likely have went for the Faith-producing Pantheons, while you are still sitting pretty on 1 underdeveloped city (because again, you went Piety instead of Tradition for your first Policy)

Now that you have (possibly) founded a Pantheon, and now that you have put yourself in a hole you are going to find very hard to dig yourself out of (near impossible if playing on a Pangea map with everyone forward settling you)..... ask yourself, why would you have ever tried to go for religion on Deity without choosing a Civ that has early faith generation?

Note: Religious City states and Faith from Ancient Ruins are not considered, as that is purely RNG/luck based.
 
Religion is really important IMHO. So, I'm trying hard to get a religion in all games.

Having being beaten to religions on Diety I've learned that its actually not as important as I thought it to be. Hate to say it but having to go without a particular feature or Wonder in Civ 5 is probably the best way to improve your game.
Sure its nice but there can be advantages in not having a religion.
Firstly other civs will compete to convert your cities and you can use this as an opportunity to buy religious buildings as they come available.
It can also make it easier to become friends with your neighbor who has converted you.

You do still want to build a shrine from the start though and start accumulating faith so you can get an early pantheon & so you can afford some religious buildings later on.
 
Something to understand about Piety itself: it does not guarantees a religion, especially on Deity.

If you are on Deity, on a Civilization that does not provide Faith very, very early on, and you start Piety instead (of Tradition), you are pigeon-holing yourself into a few possible scenarios (none of which are particularly pleasant):

- You are unable to found a Pantheon because the AI is still faster at it, and therefore unable to found a religion.
- You found are able to found a pantheon (and with a high probability that you will end up with a less-than-useful pantheon), but you are still unable to found a religion, because the AI will have 2-4 cities with Shrines, will be the first to Philosophy/Temples, and will likely have went for the Faith-producing Pantheons, while you are still sitting pretty on 1 underdeveloped city (because again, you went Piety instead of Tradition for your first Policy)

Now that you have (possibly) founded a Pantheon, and now that you have put yourself in a hole you are going to find very hard to dig yourself out of (near impossible if playing on a Pangea map with everyone forward settling you)..... ask yourself, why would you have ever tried to go for religion on Deity without choosing a Civ that has early faith generation?

Note: Religious City states and Faith from Ancient Ruins are not considered, as that is purely RNG/luck based.

If piety doesn't guarantee a religion in Deity then why not use piety in the lower difficulties like emperor or king? These difficulty levels will almost guarantee you a religion even if you use tradition or Ethiopia. Saying that Deity doesn't guarantee a religion with piety is like saying piety will not guarantee a victory which really doesn't. If Deity is too difficult for you that you can't even get a religion with piety then don't use Deity and take it easy. You don't need to constantly force yourself to use Deity and pretend you'll get a religion with tradition. The emperor and immortal difficulties could guarantee you a religion more often than Deity at least but it won't guarantee you victory at th Deity difficulty.
 
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