Great Bath

[Disgustipated]

Except the poor Alhambra. Never once have I thought to myself, "Man, I could really use another Military card slot." That's down to my playstyle, though

With the craftsman card the military slot isn't as useless as it once was. And Alhambra also provides an amenity as well. It's not so bad a wonder, just hard to get though. It's still not nearly as good as the other 3 card wonders.

 

[Zaarin]

With the craftsman card the military slot isn't as useless as it once was. And Alhambra also provides an amenity as well. It's not so bad a wonder, just hard to get though. It's still not nearly as good as the other 3 card wonders.

By the time Alhambra is useful, I already have plenty of Military slots for Craftsman and whatever else is useful at the moment. But yes, the wonder itself isn't bad just thanks to the Amenities--I just rarely have an Encampment to build it next to.

 

[Ufish]

Kilwa is usually excellent, but there are occasions when it's not that useful, e.g. you're going for a science victory but there's only 1 scientific city-state on the map. Similarly, the Colosseum is often great, but if your cities are spread out (on say an Archipelago map) you might not have a good spot for it. But I have a hard time thinking of a situation where the Pyramids or the Forbidden City wouldn't be useful.

Yes,it depends on what map you play in.I prefer to create game in huge lakes map,so there's 3 sci city-state on average.The 15% boost is peerless.In this game it gives +8 science(the other half comes from Geneva),which is equivalent to the sum of the bonus of Hypatia, Newton and Einstein!From another point of view,if you have 20 cities,it's equivalent to 3 addtional cities!

The Pyramids can be the second one.It's excellent but is too hard to take it(needs a very good start).And while it saves cogs,cogs can't directly transformed to science.If you choose Pyramids instead of Kilwa,you need to built more cities to get enough science.

Then follows the Forbidden City,great and easily to built.But still can't compared with Kilwa.Not any card can gives 15% boost.You may say International Space Agency,but that's after Democracy and at that time you don't need to worry about your slot.

The Colosseum is good too,it can be equivalent to a 10% yield increase for seven cities(if well planned).

For science victory,Kilwa>BigBen>Pyramids>Forbidden City>Oxford University>Bolshoi Theatre>Colosseum≈Mausoleum at Halicarnassus,and others are dispensable.

 

[kaspergm]

My one wonder would be Oracle. Oracle + Pingala is super powerful and gives you a bonus not easily recreated, unlike Pyramids, that are made mostly obsolete by Monumentallity (which arguably destroys everything in the game) if you are not completely faith starved.

Forbidden City and Big Ben are worthy honourable mentions but come so much later that they don’t have the same decisive impact on how your game will evolve.

 

[Mesix]

I really like getting a strong Petra city. I try to build this every game. After Petra, the wonders which give free policy cards are the ones I prioritize most often. As many others have said, the Pyramids are also good, but you can just as easily capture this from an AI that builds it.

 

[James_Champagne]

Well, I usually play as Egypt, and I usually succeed in getting Pyramids, mainly because I'll almost always beeline to it in Ancient era (and in such games I never bother with the Great Bath because hey, I'm immune to flood damage anyway).

It is interesting though to see what wonders the AI is obsessed with and which ones they don't seem to care about. Some wonders like Stonehenge, Etemenanki and the Oracle I only rarely get to make because the AI always nabs them. But I find they usually ignore the Temple of Artemis, the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus and I almost never see them do the Colosseum (in fact, in my current game, I ended up building the Colosseum in 1763 AD!)

 

[reddishrecue]

Well, I usually play as Egypt, and I usually succeed in getting Pyramids, mainly because I'll almost always beeline to it in Ancient era (and in such games I never bother with the Great Bath because hey, I'm immune to flood damage anyway).

It is interesting though to see what wonders the AI is obsessed with and which ones they don't seem to care about. Some wonders like Stonehenge, Etemenanki and the Oracle I only rarely get to make because the AI always nabs them. But I find they usually ignore the Temple of Artemis, the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus and I almost never see them do the Colosseum (in fact, in my current game, I ended up building the Colosseum in 1763 AD!)

yeah, the colosseum is a late one for me too particularly when there's little luxuries around.

 

[GIO888]

Forbidden City for me, followed by Big Ben.

Although I do hanker for the glory days of Leonardo's Workshop...........

 

[Tech Osen]

Slot wonders lost a bit of value to me because of the two slots that Owls of Minerva grand.

 

[Hokie Fan]

Kilwa. The AI is incompetent at managing their envoys and I think it's pretty typical to be suzerain of around 4-6 city states by the mid-game. You might not get your preferred setup of city-states but I think it would unusual for you to not have control of at least one pair of cultural, scientific or industrial city-states.

Plus, once you hit frigates, a trick you can pull is to create three frigates and one caravel. Travel around the map to any coastal city-state, kill the coastal city-state (eliminating the AI envoys), let the city-state rebel from loyalty pressure and then liberate the CS for your brand new suzerain since you automatically get 6 envoys when liberate it.

 

[bbbt]

Different topic...if you only could build 1 wonder in the entire game which one would it be. I clearly understand it depends on which victory conditions you are shooting for.

It predates the NFP wonders, but the elimination thread back in the day gave Pyramids, Kilwa, Forbidden City, Oracle, and the Masoleum of Hali as a distance 5th. From this thread so far, I don't think that's changed at all

Great Wonders Elimination Thread

This thread is moderator approved, with thanks to @Browd. We are back with another Elimination Thread, and this time it is the turn of Wonders - in particular, those Wonders which are constructed, rather than Natural Wonders. You are once again called upon to help sift the bad from the mediocre...

forums.civfanatics.com

By the time Alhambra is useful, I already have plenty of Military slots for Craftsman and whatever else is useful at the moment. But yes, the wonder itself isn't bad just thanks to the Amenities--I just rarely have an Encampment to build it next to.

Craftsman, Logistics, Veterancy, Retainers if I have a number of dissuade the AI defensive units hanging out in my cities. Possibly a strategic boosting one (ie equestrian orders) if I'm selling a lot to the AI. There's a decent number of useful peaceful military cards to warrant Alhambra, but I'd agree that the lack of encampment is the big issue. Even if I'm doing an early conquest to peaceful builder game I likely only have an encampment if I conquer one from the AI.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

if their city doesn't have a place where they can build it, they probably never will.

I think that's a good call

 

[Widdershins]

Odd thing about the Pyramids in my current game: I got to make them!

This is emperor level with 12 players on a "huge" map. By turn 82 no one had made them yet. So, playing as Gorgo, I made them by turn 87. This is the first time I've been able to make the Pyramids since my days playing prince level, and even then I only managed it once.

 

[Disgustipated]

Odd thing about the Pyramids in my current game: I got to make them!

I was able to make them in my recent game as Nader Shah as well. Funny thing after complaining about not ever being able to build them above. I was able to build them in a former Polish city I conquered. I saw it was available, and the city was a mostly productive city with only a few desert tiles so I figured I'd go for it.

 

[Widdershins]

I was able to make them in my recent game as Nader Shah as well. Funny thing after complaining about not ever being able to build them above. I was able to build them in a former Polish city I conquered. I saw it was available, and the city was a mostly productive city with only a few desert tiles so I figured I'd go for it.

Yeah, how strange is that? Even stranger, one of the 12 civs in my current game is Egypt.

 

[reddishrecue]

In my previous game I was able to make both pyramids and Petra in the same city.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Plus, once you hit frigates, a trick you can pull is to create three frigates and one caravel. Travel around the map to any coastal city-state, kill the coastal city-state (eliminating the AI envoys), let the city-state rebel from loyalty pressure and then liberate the CS for your brand new suzerain since you automatically get 6 envoys when liberate it.

Bonus abuse points if you play Australia while doing so.
It honestly shouldn't be allowed to work, but it does, so..

 

[Hokie Fan]

Bonus abuse points if you play Australia while doing so.
It honestly shouldn't be allowed to work, but it does, so..

Very true. It's such an exploit to declare war as Australia on one your own suzerains just so you can "liberate" the city. Australia's production is so broken in the hands of any moderately creative player.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Kilwa. The AI is incompetent at managing their envoys and I think it's pretty typical to be suzerain of around 4-6 city states by the mid-game. You might not get your preferred setup of city-states but I think it would unusual for you to not have control of at least one pair of cultural, scientific or industrial city-states.

Plus, once you hit frigates, a trick you can pull is to create three frigates and one caravel. Travel around the map to any coastal city-state, kill the coastal city-state (eliminating the AI envoys), let the city-state rebel from loyalty pressure and then liberate the CS for your brand new suzerain since you automatically get 6 envoys when liberate it.

I think it's not so much envoy management as the AI rarely upgrade their government (which gives more influence points for more advanced ones). So just keep your government up to date, and run the +envoy points green card, and you'll probably be suzerain of 100% of all the city states in the world for the entire second half of the game with very little opportunity cost.