Great Wall bug clarification

[k-a-bob]

Mac Vanilla 1.29b

I searched and searched but did not find an answer:

When an AI has the Great Wall, what exactly is the bug? I bombarded a non-GW city (owned by the GW owning Civ), and it never even said "you missed" or whatever it is - just nothing, no message whatsoever and I got no hits on any troops (12 bombards). I bombarded a tile next to it, and it gave me the message "you missed".

Does the bug include not even being able to hit anything in the city or does it just have to do with bombarding the GW city?

 

[Paul#42]

I'm not sure on which level you want to examine this...

Here's my experience in Ptw:
The (deathly part of the) bug appears when your catapult is destroying a building which is (by chance or as the only remaining choice) evaluated as "city walls". As there are no city walls in that town, the engine runs into trouble and Ptw crashes.

If the look & feel is completely different in Mac Vanilla, ignore this and go on with the next post...

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I ran into crashes on PTW when bombarding a city in a civ with the great wall - wouldn't hurt any units, and when it ran out of buildings to kill, it crashed. Sounds like the one above...

 

[AdrianE]

I play civ 1.29b on a Mac as well. I did notice it was hard to get a result against AI units when they build the Great wall. However I did observe hits vrs Great wall protected AI units.

Many cities were on a hill so bombardment results are expected to be poor.

On two occasions I got bizarre messages after a bombardment: some_path/hospital.pcx has been destroyed. At least my game didn't crash on that.

 

[AlanH]

Best advice is don't waste shields building cats to fight an AI with the Great Wall. At the very best they won't achieve anything much, and worst case they'll crash your software.

My own approach to cats is never to build them, and to take them to pieces if I capture them.

 

[ainwood]

I tend to agree with Alan - the chances of actually hitting anything with a catapult bombarding a city which is protected by the great wall is very, very low (certainly not worth the investment in shields). The chances of the game crashing are fairly high!

Note that once the AI has gunpowder, then the great wall is obsolete, and so the game doesn't crash when you bombard. If you are well-ahead in tech, it is actually quite a good strategy to gift gunpowder to the civ with the GW just before you attack them.

 

[PaperBeetle]

My own approach to cats is never to build them, and to take them to pieces if I capture them.

That's pretty hardcore. You know captured artillery is free upkeep, like slaves, right?

 

[k-a-bob]

I had my cats for a non-GW AI. I just readjusted my strategy for the GW owning AI.

Thanks everyone!

 

[AlanH]

That's pretty hardcore. You know captured artillery is free upkeep, like slaves, right?

Don't care. I disband captured cannon as well. I also never build defenders.

You need big piles of artillery to make a difference. I've never captured enough to create a stack that big, and I don't waste shields on building that many myself. I've never found a convincing article that explains why I should want to invest shields in cats or cannons.

The first time I'm prepared to use artillery is when it's Artillery, can move fast on rails, and can hit with force from a distance. If I reach that point in a game I can build it when I want it, but I don't generally have time to play games that last that long. So before that I'd rather use the disband shields for something useful that might remove the need even to play as far as replaceable parts.

 

[tR1cKy]

Cats are fairly effective in the ancients against non walled cities. Weakening some spears (usually regulars, so 2/3) may reduce losses in the following attack.

 

[AlanH]

Do you have any numbers?

I'll be happy to use cats if anyone can show me evidence that the savings outweigh their total costs in terms of shields, slowing down my horses to wait for them to get into position, and building spears to defend them as they lumber up to the enemy's gates.

 

[tR1cKy]

Do you have any numbers?

No. Just a feeling. But i had slow attacks in mind (swords, archers), not horses. With horses it seems to me that they're not worth it, for the reasons you mention.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Yes, cats are definitely stuck with the foot soldiers. Not just because they can't keep up with the horses, but also becasue, in withdrawal, the horse has its own mediocre version of artillery's great selling point: the ability to damage the enemy with no risk of dying, and no chance of promoting them. And without the artillery, the footsies do not have this ability.
Mind you, cats have lots of other tricks up their sleeve: they can pillage tiles without getting stranded on them, they get defensive freeshot, they kill civilians, they knock down buildings, they can occasionally attack enemy ships, and they can be disbanded in towns for shields
So they may not be the most efficient pieces in the box, but I think they are just fun to play with.