Great Works

[hai 1]

+2 Culture and +2 tourism seems really meager, what are the situations in which it beats a political treatise, golden age, etc?

Also, I have found hoarding great writers until winning the world's fair to be an incredibly effective strategy. Am I missing something, or is this what everyone does?

 

[Helmling]

+2 Culture and +2 tourism seems really meager, what are the situations in which it beats a political treatise, golden age, etc?

Also, I have found hoarding great writers until winning the world's fair to be an incredibly effective strategy. Am I missing something, or is this what everyone does?

I don't hoard them, no. I usually am the first with factories up by the time the fair rolls around so I just go all in with production. I don't want great writers chewing up my support budget for hundreds of turns when they could be generating culture for me.

I tend to always turn them into great works while available. Once the great works slots are filled, there will be plenty of GAs and treatises then.

 

[Cedbird]

When I first started playing BNW I neglected my tourism.Then I ran into about 6 or 7 games out of 12 that bit me pretty hard.I had a tough time prioritizing getting my guilds up and not turning my GP into GWs.So I started prioritizing getting my guilds up and staffing my GW buildings.Like Helmling said I put them to work.I do this most of the time especially early on.Only time I won 't in general is if I see an immediate huge boost.For instance a wonder I really want.That means I have more GP points etc being generated.Its worth the risk and the expenditure at that point.
Otherwise meager adds up to be alot turn after turn after turn.The whole game works that way.Add upon this and this and this turn after turn.

 

[reddishrecue]

Most players hoard the great works because they're usually out of space since there aren't any buildings that could hold the great works. Political treatises generate a lot more culture when there is more culture per turn generated by your empire. This works kind of similar to the musician concert tour gw.

 

[pvtjava]

Great Works become more effective when you:

1. combine with other Great Works for theming bonus and finish Aesthetics,
2. build Hotels and/or Airports,
3. research The Internet,
4. take one of several ideological tenets that boost Tourism,
5. win International Games.

There may be other ways but these are the biggest boosts and can lead to Cultural Victory. Also puts ideological pressure on AI, as well as, at certain levels of influence, extra science from trade routes, faster spying, and faster unrest/less population loss after city capture.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

+2 Culture and +2 tourism seems really meager, what are the situations in which it beats a political treatise, golden age, etc?

Also, I have found hoarding great writers until winning the world's fair to be an incredibly effective strategy. Am I missing something, or is this what everyone does?

You mean after you pop your first one or two to get the first two Rationalism SPs, right? Even so, not sure it's always worth it. Depends on how important a given SP is to get. Waiting 50 turns for an extra 40% in culture ... if the SPs you get from that boost are so important, do you really want to wait 50 turns? (Or however many...)

 

[chazzycat]

Also, I have found hoarding great writers until winning the world's fair to be an incredibly effective strategy. Am I missing something, or is this what everyone does?

I am a big fan of this, combined with allying cultural CS it's very strong on immortal. Get a golden age at the same time, ideally. Each treatise can be worth a whole policy, if things work out perfectly.

It does kind of depend on the world fair getting passed at a reasonable time to be effective. So you want to make sure you will be in position to propose WC resolutions if you are going to go that route.

Also, it's probably not good on deity, because winning the world fair is actually hard. This is probably why you don't see more people advocating the strategy here.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Great Works with the exception of Late Game and Parthenon are the only source of Tourism. Tourism is needed not only for Cultural Victory, but also increasing the pressure YOUR ideology does on other civs relative to their culture. If you start the Tourism game Late Game you won't have as much of an effect on others as they will on you.

 

[Dr. D]

In my current Venice game on Emperor, I am going to win by domination before ideologies really take effect so I have been burning each great writer and artist immediately for culture boosts and, with the help of Chichen Itza, a nearly permanent golden age. I don't need the tourism so might as well get the immediate benefits.

 

[chazzycat]

Great Works with the exception of Late Game and Parthenon are the only source of Tourism. Tourism is needed not only for Cultural Victory, but also increasing the pressure YOUR ideology does on other civs relative to their culture. If you start the Tourism game Late Game you won't have as much of an effect on others as they will on you.

yeah but you can negate most tourism effects with strong defensive culture (at least below deity). Tourism is just not very scalable without those late-game multipliers, which you won't get if you're not going for CV. Culture, on the other hand, is way more scalable (city states, world fair) much earlier in the game, and plus you get more social policies as a side benefit.

I've had good success with zero-tourism SVs lately. It's great because you can just ignore the entire tourism apparatus, freeing up your builds for other stuff that pays off better in a non-CV. Last time I did this, I didn't build a single amphitheater or archaeologist. Sure the AI ended up hitting me with one level of unhappiness, but who cares? I had so many extra policies, one tenet in order easily dealt with that. (I play on immortal)

 

[Zaimejs]

Hoard them? How many do you get? I might have like... 3 by the time the World's Fair rolls around. If I'm lucky. I think I suck at this game.

I always make Great Works when I can. I don't think I've ever used a Writer for anything else. But I'm an English teacher, so I like seeing the books and hearing the quotations.

I just know that when I didn't beef up tourism, my peoples got angry at me.

 

[chazzycat]

yeah it's not much of a "hoard" maybe 2 or 3.

 

[joncnunn]

Personally, the only type I ever "hoard" is Great Artists, and that's because after the Palace is full, the next building they can be placed on is a long ways away without Cathedrals / one of the world wonders.

Also note that Great Musican strength is locked when produced; it does no good to hold onto the first few great musicans you get when your tourism is low; those should be added to opera houses (initially)

 

[sendos]

I use great writers for great works until I get about 5 great works, enough to theme Oxford University and Globe Theatre, if I get it. After successful world fair, political treatise is epic within the doubled culture timeframe.

I don't build an artists guild until Renaissance era. I used to hoard them in medieval era but it seems pointless to do so. My rule of thumb is get Sistine Chapel, theme it and get Uffizi and see if you can theme it, otherwise theme the hermitage. Then I use them for golden ages once I use archaeologists, especially timing then during project competitions.

As for Great musicians, I mainly use them for great works, at least 5 works of music until you hoard them for culture victory, especially when your influence is strong against every civ.

 

[Barghaest]

Personally, the only type I ever "hoard" is Great Artists, and that's because after the Palace is full, the next building they can be placed on is a long ways away without Cathedrals / one of the world wonders.

Yeah, this annoys me greatly... you get Artist Guild so early but without getting a few specific wonders, you'll lack the slots for GWoA until at least Hermitage (or Museums) which is a LONG time to wait in a slow research game (like my mod) if you didn't get Cathedrals as your belief.... or have Royal Libraries.

They really should have added slots to some other building in the same era you get the guild (both Musician and Writer come with CBs that have slots for their works).

 

[chazzycat]

I think the idea is that if you are serious about culture victory, you are supposed to build some wonders.