Greece and Turkey Sign Declaration of Friendship!

Quintillus

Restoring Civ3 Content
Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
8,421
Location
Ohio
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/world/europe/greece-turkey-declaration-of-friendly-relations.html

After years of tensions between Greece and Turkey, the countries’ leaders signed a “declaration on friendly relations and good neighborliness” on Thursday, in what they described as a bid to set the two neighboring, rival nations on a more constructive path. The eventual goal, they said, was to resolve longstanding differences.

Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis of Greece and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey signed the declaration as Mr. Erdogan made his first visit to Athens in six years.

This was a surprise for me to read today; I did not realize Greece and Turkey were attempting to lower tensions and work more amicably together. Could they be turning over a new leaf? Will they be as friendly as the Danes and Swedes in a few years?

Thoughts? I know we have a number of Greek and Turkish posters here, who've occasionally traded barbs over whether the Byzantine or Ottoman empires were superior. Is this something you support? Or is it a bad idea? Or somewhere in between, a good idea in theory even if you could only begrudgingly support working with your rivals of nearly a thousand years?
 
the reasons are those you will not be allowed to read around in certain places . But basically include hydrocarbons , Eurofighter Typhoon jet available for purchase in return for accepting the refugees Britain could not send to Ruanda , no interest in it hence German refusal . Every one considers this , like spam ... Except it is actually the truth . Trust it to be proven one day .
 
it is actually in the Little Prince , by that de Saint-Exupéry guy ... except it is all BS .

08-12-2023b.jpg


no , no , look for the Mustasche ...

08-12-2023c.jpg
Spoiler :

it goes like Kemal the young officer sees the mistake done by Foch , commander of the Picardie Exrecises in 1910 , he is ignored because he wears a fes , insulted he goes out and buys a hat . Foch , after losing the "battle" , invites the Captain to the final dinner , which is otherwise limited to Colonels and above . The Revolution of the Hat , which is like really real , becomes the very first thing that happens or something . That's a Kalpak , not a fes and the reason he was invited to the exercises and the dinner is because that the entire Europe by now knows he is the star pupil of von der Goltz . The German is utterly fearful of modern warfare and the carnage it will wreak , so has gone throughly beyond what Berlin would have condoned . He has been raising Ottoman officers as if they were Prussian bluebloods . As a major power in the future , a honest ally .

that's why the exercises were such a hoot . Impressing the future commander of all Ottoman Armies , if he doesn't get himself shot by the likes of Enver . What happened is also debateable . Some say he was the first
Ottoman officer to fly when the French offered free observation flights . Like ı myself support . Some say he wasn't asked but he demanded . Some say he was scared or not allowed when two planes collided in the air and pieces fell within 8 meters of him , killing both aviators . Only Mike Spick , a widely published author of the 1990s says he flew in combat in the Balkan Wars as an observer , preparing his assault from the Gallipoli Peninsula against the Bulgarians which was destined to fail . Spick fails to identify that there was a different Captain Kemal , trained directly as an aviator . Turkish Wikipedia claims the first American UFO was captured after its crash at the mountain the Armenians claim as their own and it was not a crash in Italy in 1931 only because of my posts in CFC . Oh , yeah , this is really on topic if you are actually interested in the topic . Because of this ...

08-12-2023d.jpg

while he bought them for a ball or whatever in France he also used them during his 14 days tour of Belgium , Netherlands and Switzerland of which there are absolutely no records . Which would make it plausible 3 years later that he had met with a lot of people to supply him with a new kind of machine guns in the future as they became available . It happens to be recorded that there was an attempt to arrest him after his 14 days because he was meeting with young officers . Which could only be a coup against Ittihad Terakki ...

gatling guns , contrary to movies , make poor ground to ground weapons . Inaccurate by comparision they use far too much ammunition and in 1910s there were hardly any of the external power sources that could run them . Gas operation or recoil were not much feasible by then , too . Such rumours justified the Second Balkan War with an idea that the Bulgarians would further wilt to consider joint stuff or instead crushed as part of a return to Europe ... which in turn led to the Great War and anything beyond . If ı say the world passionately hates us Turks , it is exactly that way .

as such even with New Turkey , created and directed by the West for the Counter-Revolution , the unease continiues . The French did not threaten us with the of use nuclear weapons when their commandos in Libya were stopped by British commandos while the French proxies were severely beaten by New Turkey stuff aka the British proxies . The French threatened us with nuclear weapons to sell 18 Rafale fighter jets to Greece . Because it can not be proven that stuff does not exist . The Greeks while eager to fight us are most reluctant to fight us . Because how do you know it is not a lazer gun by now ? Rafales are a package deal , the Greeks "escalated" the things with that purchase only to get a nuclear umbrella . Because they very unhappily had a tiny civil war in 1974 with some attempting to capture nuclear warheads under American control on Greek soil , as the Christian cowardliness was explained as possession of the same by unknown parties . America , Russia , Israel and China held responsible , alone or in combinations , according to the whims of whomever knew of this "secret stuff" . Proven by high alert level of Soviet Airborne Divisions which would be landed on Greek islands to save them from evil Turks as the Americans were doing nothing . If you think this is a crazy story , ı am really avoiding the better ones .

new Turkey wants oil . To cap their sole reason for existance . To facilitate the Counter-Revolution and assimilation of the area in the name of the Gulf Arabs . Which was only available if they either loved the Kurds . Or sold the island of Cyprus to the Greeks in return for a percentage . Of the natural gas fields the Israelis would put into operation becoming friendly with the Greeks . Despite the entire Ergenekon Conspiracies and the turning over entire warplanning since 1950s (none of which cites possession of nuclear weapons despite the American urging to steal it from the Pakistanis who were importing Chinese tech and bombs bit by bit) the Greeks still do not like Turks . Hence they are giving away islands to Athens . Not named in various treaties , these previously uninhabitated pieces of rocks start sprouting houses and whatnot . Creating territorial waters and stuff . Latest count was 18 or something .

finally fed up or Americans discovering we didn't have nuclear weapons , there was the announcement that it didn't matter . New Turkey was not eternal and the first crisis afterwards would be one where the Greeks would be induced to leave one island as proof of convictions and whatnot . Do not try to wrap your mind around this stuff , it just happens that way .

new Turkey will not fight the Greeks at all . As long as America , EU and the UK do not agree that elections can be won only by a glorious adventure . A lot Kurds have been killed in Election Jihads ; just ask the Greeks if they feel they will get help if such a thing happens . What they feel , not whether they should be helped ... As such , such talks have been on for years , might even be a decade and they produce such declarations from time to time .

this one's timing depends on the Typhoon deal . The UK wants to dump its older planes on us . We have F-16s with F-110 engines . Which means the F-24s for the aerial branch of the Army of Petrol should be less of a problem if they were equipped by the same type of engines if New Turkey people all decide to emigrate to London and Doha for some reason . Do you remember the gatling guns ? If London can manage to sell to "r16" , a concept that drives people in various aviation sites utterly mad , this proves the next generation British jet is the best ! Goddamned billions in money . They have already managed to grab the Italians and the Japanese , it will be easier if F-24 loses weight to be equipped with Rolls Royce engines . They do not want to sell engines for F-24 . They want it with their engines before it is cancelled altogether with a minority share in the Tempest II programme if they fail to agree to kill us all in the 2030s .

all of which will be easier with the cold power and realities of logic . 20 old Typhoons . Clears the way for 20 new Typhoons . With new built RR engines . (They will of course have a heart attack or nuke the biggest 10 cities of this country after fixing one with F-414s in 15 days .) F-24 dies . Despite American renaming of it as the Felon 24 .

but there is no money ? Sure , New Turkey accepts refugees the UK could not sent to Ruanda . Because Greeks are evil , we need fighter jets RIGHT NOW , the Brits are giving them FREE and don't we hate Scholz anyhow ? Of course it will be only later that we will hear the Turkish treasury must pay for the commissions accruing . Everything is free until our time to pay comes and there are very few people on earth who are "afraid" that we always remember our obligations .

so , when that doesn't work out , the Greeks appear superior with their Rafales and yet Typhoons wished to rot and rust , it suddenly shines as peace . Will hold about a week ı am willing to bet .

no nukes , no 10 mistresses , no nothing in reality but ı do have some serious reach . Because of those old weird guys ı know online .
 
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/07/world/europe/greece-turkey-declaration-of-friendly-relations.html



This was a surprise for me to read today; I did not realize Greece and Turkey were attempting to lower tensions and work more amicably together. Could they be turning over a new leaf? Will they be as friendly as the Danes and Swedes in a few years?

Thoughts? I know we have a number of Greek and Turkish posters here, who've occasionally traded barbs over whether the Byzantine or Ottoman empires were superior. Is this something you support? Or is it a bad idea? Or somewhere in between, a good idea in theory even if you could only begrudgingly support working with your rivals of nearly a thousand years?
It's fake and related to puppet theater. It's also not the first time such were signed- the NYtimes doesn't hype it up by chance either; military-industrial interests want Turkey to be given those F16s and take away attention from Turkey supporting Hamas openly, and this can serve as a soundbite as if it's based on actual changes. Erdogan even had the nerve to call the muslim minority in Thrace "turkish", in the same meeting's press speeches, which I liked because it made our prime minister look exactly as dumb a pawn as he is. More importantly, literally nothing was taken back by Turkey, not their ridiculous claims on greek islands, not the casus belli (threat of war) in case Greece expands its maritime space, not their deal with Libya for an economic zone which overlaps the greek one. I wonder if this treaty even has to pass the greek parliament - and if it does with the usual normal majority, the only way it won't is if mps from the governing party rebel, when they are known trash.
 
Last edited:
the Muslim minority in Western Thrace is Turkish .

but yes , it is just a show .
 
I guess it doesn't matter that the treaty which allowed any muslim populations in Thrace to stay, did so if they were to be non-ethnic. In other words, if there is no respect for treaties and names in them, don't give credence to this joker one either.
The christian populations which stayed in the same treaty, were killed and driven away in the known pogroms of Constantinople, so it makes it even worse to speak about mistreating the muslim one. The consulate should just be kicked out and that'd be all.

Indifference is what allows such fake moves by the local clown politicians. But I also suffer from indifference, so won't be posting more here.
 
Last edited:
the nastiest ever r16 trick involved declaring that anyone who benefitted from the 1915 events would pay . Which exactly was not us Turks . Kurds didn't like it all . They were already horrified to have heard either a million Armenians would return or America was propagandizing to that end . Incredible things , them gatlings .

the treaties ? Venizelos , the happy puppet of the Allies and this so called liberator of Crete fell for the grandness of it . Britain cheating Italy out of victor's spoils by sending in the Greeks . And couldn't sit on it , too . Wanting more , igniting stuff by invasion further and further into Anatolia . Kicked out for failure , returning after bigger failure . And to crown it all , he himself offered the deal for population exchange . Ethnically cleansing Muslims , majority being Turkish by ethnicity . Denying multiparty whatever to Turkey because it made Social Darwinist sense in nation building , Atatürk wanted minorities , to balance things to end in a functioning Democracy , to protect and advance his work . Am a Sunni and we are all seeing where this so called Sunni majority has taken the Country . Risk of destruction and invasion by foreign powers . One should really blame America and Great Britain for the 1955 stuff . Which like made it "impossible" the return of Cyprus . Which in itself led to 1974 .
 
So, Turkey wanting fighter jets and perhaps hydrocarbons and playing nice to increase the likelihood of getting them makes some sense. I don't see any connection to the British-Rwandan refugee plan, which I'd forgotten about, but which appears to be back in action after a quick check into its current status. It sounds like they really will be going to Rwanda, not Turkey.

It doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement from either side. I don't know much about the current leading Greek politicians, but certainly have little trust in Erdogan. I guess my short summary of my position of him is he'll lean whichever way the wind is blowing or whichever way he thinks will give him an advantage, with no compunctions about principles or being consistent with his past self, just staying in power. Seems like a dangerous man to deal with, and the only case I can think of where his actions were likely a net good for society - brokering the Russia/Ukraine grain deal - also happened to increase his prestige and influence on the world stage.
 
the vehemence from the other side of the Aegean naturally forces the existance of some commentary .

naturally some other stuff is in order , then . It was clear that the game ı had in my 486/Windows XP was not the same Firaxis was selling . Had some stuff in the forum , Lord Vader asked what was it about ... Having decided his knees were too weak to play horsey with grandkids ; and having applied violence on real people , he was amenable to views that computer games eroded the limits being Human demanded from people . So , in the end they wrote to the company proposing a 10th year bundle , with the whole bells and whistles of full financial stuff . CFC being the only place ı could have it , considering the pressure and whatnot ı was under and so on . As such ı have no emnity against the people who arranged the 20th year DVD thing , or those developing a Civ III clone or the patches and stuff . The guy who posted that ı could offer changes to LotM to be in the DVD did that because ı was a fan and playing it very much , not to laugh at my face on behalf of the West Wing . Which is apparently in Washington DC . Actually one can do make all sorts of funny graphs out of it .

if anyone wants to call BS regarding my posts , ı will not eat you . ı have a reputation to maintain , of integrity and decency .

so , the deal was New Turkey would get the Syrians . They had little regard for Afghans and Pakistanis because of the way the Gulf Monarchies funded them as cannon fodder for a fee . So , when the Syrians started to "get fat with the easy life" here , assured that they had no need to Jihad when the entire Goverment was already set up to fall into their hands intact , more "Muslims" were needed . New Turkey of course felt cheated . The EU was ready to pay 3 billion euros a year for the Afghans , they wanted 3 every 6 months . There was the flood of refugees carried by busses to the border with the TVs covering it and the EU agreeing to pay the extra , which reportedly they failed to complete it anyhow . Otherwise the Goverment assisted human smuggling is media-free . So , it is only normal to stall the Ruanda camp to stage that this is "free" ... Which would later be used to claim mysterious supporters of Turks were okay with the so called Silent Invasion . And the assimilation . And the supposed 20% the British Goverment would send to the PM , at least according to the claims the Congregation . No jets , no camps . It was in the news that the UK was sending its so recycle grade garbage directly to landfills here with the relevant fee to New Turkey . To make an open connection between stuff would gain me an infraction and would do nothing to His Majesties Goverment which does it for real . Can't tell it with full confidence though . Landfills poison people slowly . While the people would be faster , they might have reached the limits of men on the ground to direct mass slaughter . To their benefit and not to a usual situation where the casualties will be concentrated on civilians that could make 0 contribution to what would come after that . Boris Johnsons of all sorts in the bunkers and so on .

the Ruanda thing is in it , part and parcel . And that makes only a little dent against what ı say anyhow . You can't fail the entire post with an idea that something in Africa can not be relevant to some unimportant country by the Middle East . They would have a lot of Africans to brainwash , some of them even escaping from their local Jihadists .

and much impressed by the choice of the word "Society" . Nicely covers a lot of stuff in one stroke . One might go with how it ignores the 52% of this country who must have accepted the Counter-Revolution by voting for the A-K-P coalition . Oddly they still remain Turkish or something . Avoids any comments on how the West supports the PM with everything in its arsenal , from words to bombs to suggest the "successes" are his and not of Western choice and design . Even the grain deal . When ı was in primary school , Turkey was one of the only 7 countries in the world that could feed its population on its own , like with zero food imports or whatever . New Turkey intentionally destroys the agriculture in this country , for the threat of famine to hang over us Turks ? No point in mentioning , let's give New Turkey a little percentage as the grain goes to Amsterdam for extra profits for Western companies . Sorry , the grain deal is an insult to the world ; offering profits to Russians in return to ease the fighting so that more Russians will be killed . But yes , they will remember the insulting nature of it when they make sure that the good side will never be a global player in agriculture again when the war is over . No , still not a Russian myself . Just an ordinary Turk of that particular kind .

so , like , how this ever happens ? While the guy has said he won't be back , he will understand this is just the regular r16 thing . He is just an ordinary guy over there thinking we amount to nothing on our own . Our benefactors have to be the Israelis , the Greek State exists on the principle of Lobbying and the Israeli Lobby is the only thing their Lobby in Washington can not handle . With the ongoing stuff in Gazze any peace deal he would be satisfied with would be one where the PM bowed in Athens and accepted his ancestors to be not Turks (and not Georgian by the way despite he once saying he was) , offered the services of the two provinces on the Blacksea coast in controlling the conquest not for Qatar but for Greece , apologised for everything real or unreal . That's only the fault of his online friends in some other gaming forum that you can mistakenly read a whiff of support for the expulsion of a minority if damned Israelis can ethnically cleanse Gazze under the full hostility THE World can conjure of . Apparently he still has not heard that New Turkey now wants the declaration of a Palestinian state and Netanyahu in prison for crimes against Humanity for New Turkey to vote for Swedes joining NATO . Greeks pull their hair out regularly (ı have been informed) by their inability to do stuff , which should have been as easy as plucking up some apple hanging low .

ı mean they bought or rented land in Somalia for farming . Which would later be palm plantations . As in all the Gulf Monarchs have some . Nothing was allowed to flourish because the Gulf Monarchs do not live here and whatever , the deal was given up . And the next day the son of the Somalian President just ran over a delivery guy on a motorcycle and naturally went free . Creating more remembrance on how the PM's first son was involved in accident that killed a woman ... When the money flow stops , everything can happen in New Turkey . You would be justified at laughing at people who hate us enough to charge the windmills . Except you do not see the windmills .
 
also totally off-topic but still fully related am most impressed by the supposed news that the USN now directly buys Russian oil or Russian oil sold to India resold and delivered in a Russian tanker . Try thinking why that happens , like if the grain deal is off .
 
Top Bottom