Drugs and the US market

[Arwon]

To be clear, you are intending to claim that US drug problems with like, stuff being tainted with fentanyl, are being deliberately incited by a foreign government?

 

[Farm Boy]

Quasi governmental. Like East India was. Like I said?

Maybe sort of like if the the US Post Office was selling poisoned, lethal, marijuana to kids down the street from you for cheap enough its everywhere. Boeing?

 

[Arwon]

Do you have any actual evidence of this? Dealers cutting stuff with cheaper substances isn't exactly uncommon, that's one of the nasty things about drug prohibition, there's no quality control or content assurance.

Harm minimisation methods such as testing services help a lot - my little city had some fentanyl show up in a test on someone's heroin a couple months ago, it was detected early because someone didn't trust what was in their drugs and a good reliable testing service let alerts go out - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09...nds-fentanyl-in-brown-powder-sample/104410508. Also having naloxone available.

 

[Farm Boy]

I haven't seen a source that says it comes (the majority, its a big input) otherwise. I started at wiki and went on a binge years ago. Seems to still flow that way. I don't feel like digging US government sources tonight. I'm gonna claim drunk and lazy.

 

[Birdjaguar]

To be clear, you are intending to claim that US drug problems with like, stuff being tainted with fentanyl, are being deliberately incited by a foreign government?

There is pretty good evidence that Chinese fentanyl (or precursors) are being sent to Mexico for drug sales in the US. Xi's government has not made much of an effort to stop it. The question is: could China stop the production and shipment of those items? I think they could make significant headway, but choose not to. That leads to the next question of whether the Mexican cartels could find an alternative source or change the formula to something more benign or more deadly.

This led me to ask: Does China have a drug problem? Yes but not so much with fentanyl. Of course CCP statistics are likely not accurate.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/A-Peoples-War-final.pdf

Illegal drug trade in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Arwon]

Fentanyl is a medication, I'm not sure ending production of it is really a viable policy goal.

I would've thought the idea was things like reducing the number of people getting hooked on prescription painkillers, and keeping it out of the speed and heroin etc, or at least equipping people to minimise overdose harms with testing and readily available naloxone.

 

[Farm Boy]

You want it out of speed and heroin, and we're trying to say how its getting there.

I suppose we could just gift all the recreationals at high purity from the state at subsidized rates and try to flood it out. That's a thought. Not entirely sure about the downstream on that one. Countries would likely be furious with the US for flooding the world with cheap addictive substances. Likely, no, would. Some at issue are already pissed at the states for producing weed. The sale of which which can be a capital offense.

There are testing kits already. The casualties are happening in a world with them.

 

[Samson]

I suppose we could just gift all the recreationals at high purity from the state at subsidized rates and try to flood it out. That's a thought. Not entirely sure about the downstream on that one. Countries would likely be furious with the US for flooding the world with cheap addictive substances.

They did this in Austria for while, it seemed to work.

 

[Birdjaguar]

They did this in Austria for while, it seemed to work.

Did they stop?

 

[Samson]

Did they stop?

I do not think so, but I know nothing about it for some years. This says in 2018 55% of those on substitution medication were on morphine.

 

[EvaDK]

A cascade of law enforcement and social problems arise when a society declares war on its own drug addicts/abusers. Not to mention how expensive it is, in both in economic and human terms, to send drug addicts behind bars for being addicts, or for crimes committed because of it.

 

[Hygro]

In some ways I feel disappointed that my comment was branched off into its own topic, as my one and only view on solving the problems of drug abuse is for people to not take them. It may be a difficult solution but it is the ultimate one.
Perhaps I am fortunate that I have a steady job and volunteer activities that the very last thing on my mind is: "you know, I'd feel even better if I shoot something into me and wind up in some vegetative state where I see pretty colors for a few minutes..."

The ignorance is strong with this one

 

[Akka]

In some ways I feel disappointed that my comment was branched off into its own topic, as my one and only view on solving the problems of drug abuse is for people to not take them. It may be a difficult solution but it is the ultimate one.
Perhaps I am fortunate that I have a steady job and volunteer activities that the very last thing on my mind is: "you know, I'd feel even better if I shoot something into me and wind up in some vegetative state where I see pretty colors for a few minutes..."

Well, uh, yeah, at the individual level obviously "don't do drug" is the best stance with drugs.
That being said, that's kinda useless beyond TV ads to tackle drug use as a societal problem. Trying to understand why they do it and fixing these causes has probably a much better rate of success than just lecturing them about it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump says he’s planning ‘large-scale’ ad campaign on fentanyl crisis​

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thehill.com

IIRC the "Just say no" campaign solved all of drug problems.

Just Say No - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Farm Boy]

The smoking campaigns seem to have moved the needle.

Compelled speech, in a way.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The smoking campaigns seem to have moved the needle.

Compelled speech, in a way.

Yes, but that campaign was not just an ad campaign. Smokers were shoved outside or to enclosed places where they can gather to indulge. In addition, smoking is done openly and has immediate effects on those around the smoker. Non smokers will often openly scorn or shun smokers. Fentanyl users are less public with their habit.

 

[Narz]

Trump says he’s planning ‘large-scale’ ad campaign on fentanyl crisis​

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thehill.com

IIRC the "Just say no" campaign solved all of drug problems.

Just Say No - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cheaper & better for the economy just legalize safer pain relief like cannabis.

The smoking campaigns seem to have moved the needle.

Compelled speech, in a way.

I don't think 'smoking isn't cool' ads worked, people just realized it for themselves, and it took a long time.

In the next 20 years hopefully food will go the same way (instead of junk food being cool & fun it will come to be seen as disgusting & self-abusive).

Like cigs & fast food opiates were aggressively pushed on the population by 'experts'.

Stop prescribing & get out of the way of better alternatives.

 

[Farm Boy]

Things don't just happen. The steady drumbeat adds up. They didn't stop vaping.

 

[Hygro]

Well, uh, yeah, at the individual level obviously "don't do drug" is the best stance with drugs.
That being said, that's kinda useless beyond TV ads to tackle drug use as a societal problem. Trying to understand why they do it and fixing these causes has probably a much better rate of success than just lecturing them about it.

I think only a minority of people are best served by “don’t do drugs” and abstinence.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

Well, uh, yeah, at the individual level obviously "don't do drug" is the best stance with drugs.
That being said, that's kinda useless beyond TV ads to tackle drug use as a societal problem. Trying to understand why they do it and fixing these causes has probably a much better rate of success than just lecturing them about it.

I'm not lecturing anyone. They're free to take drugs and I'm free to call them foolish for doing it. There's no problem that I see.