Greg LeMond accuses Lance Armstrong of using EPO

[Sir Bugsy]

How about just giving the guy some credit for working his butt off and cycling better than everyone else?

All of these fellows are fabulous athletes. Lance just happens to be better in the mountains. Perhaps what the TDF officials should think about is Lance-proofing the course, just like the folks at Augusta National Tiger-proofed their course.

Lance-proof? Not so many mountain stages.

 

[Aggie]

The mountain stages are the best thing in the Tour. This year the TDF already supposed to be less Lance-friendly with only one flat time trial. But Armstrong isn't only a great time trial rider, he also dominates the mountain stages. Especially when all climbers fail (Heras, Mayo, Sevilla, etc...)

 

[Stapel]

Many people say it is not illegal unless you get caught .

This is a true statement.

Anyway: It's impossible to draw the line between medication and doping. Not a single doctor is able to tell where to draw that line. The simplification of the phenomenon by the typical he uses that & htat, so he cheats is quite annoying.

Any professional cyclist uses tons of medications, preparations an vitamins. As long as this is done by professional doctors, all is fine.

We should not forget the complete 1998 Festina team was on EPO. That included Dufaux, Brochard, Zuelle & Virenque. A simple conclusion teaches us that cyclists simply use whatever is either allowed or untracable.

 

[dgfred]

This is a true statement.

Anyway: It's impossible to draw the line between medication and doping. Not a single doctor is able to tell where to draw that line. The simplification of the phenomenon by the typical he uses that & htat, so he cheats is quite annoying.

Any professional cyclist uses tons of medications, preparations an vitamins. As long as this is done by professional doctors, all is fine.

We should not forget the complete 1998 Festina team was on EPO. That included Dufaux, Brochard, Zuelle & Virenque. A simple conclusion teaches us that cyclists simply use whatever is either allowed or untracable.

Exactly. Anyway, Lance them all yesterday . He is up

by over 3 minutes!!! He must can find the 'better' untraceables

 

[Serutan]

Here is Andy Hampsten's contribution to the doping debate. Makes me wish that an
full English translation of the LeMonde article was available.

 

[Aggie]

Wow, another great rider speaking up. I admit that Ferrari is a shady figure in cycling and it is not good for Armstrong's image to be helped by him.

 

[AVN]

It's impossible to ride the Tour or any major round without extensive medical help. I also believe that it's impossible to ride a major round completely "natural".

So IMHO the only solution for the doping problem in cycling is to stop competitions like the Tour, Vuelta or Giro.

And I don't believe we (the supporters, fans) want that.

So IMHO we have to accept the existance of doping in cycling.

That doesn't mean that everything is acceptable. There should be some limitations, but IMHO the current fight against doping can never be successful. At least not in the Tour.

 

[gonzo_for_civ]

You'll have to excuse me since I'm a bit of a TDF illiterate but does the tour require any sort of drug test to qualify? Or is it more of a test if you suspect something set-up?

 

[Shabbaman]

Yup, all competitors are tested in advance, and regular tests occur during the event. In fact, cycling is the sport in which most drug tests take place.
The problem is that there are drugs being developed that aren't known yet to those who perform the tests. If you don't know where to look, you can't find something either.

 

[Aggie]

And Hampsten gave the perfect example. In 1994 the Gewiss team won everything. With riders that were at the top for only a few years (94-97). Oddly(?) enough one of these riders was Riis. Ugrumov and Berzin were also from that team. But even helpers were unbeatable. There are other remarkable riders in that period that transformed from helpers to champions. At the end of the 90-ies EPO could be traced and things normalized. EPO probably is the most unbalancing doping ever in the peleton. However, what is the big thing now?

 

[AVN]

However, what is the big thing now?

Ask Ferrari. I guess he knows the answer

 

[Shabbaman]

He might have... nevertheless, Armstrong is a formidable athlete. His professional approach should have an impact on other riders, such as, for example, Ullrich And his technique (the high frequency in mountain stages) was quite revolutionary.

 

[Aggie]

I agree Shabbaman. I only question Armstrong's choice to work with Ferrari.

 

[SanPellegrino]

However, what is the big thing now?

It is DynEpo. Epo on biological basis which cannot be detected.

 

[Serutan]

Does anyone know if any long term side effects of EPO surfaced yet?
Like Hampsten, I can't believe you can do things like that and not pay a price later...

 

[Shabbaman]

Somehow, cyclists seem to die young these days.

 

[MCdread]

Well, EPO is produced by the human body. When artificial EPO was developped it was a little different from the natural protein. Sophisticated tests were developped to identify the manufactered protein among the natural one, but if a new type of EPO is developped, the test cannot detect it, unless it is set to look for the new EPO version. If the labs manufacture one that is virtually identical to the natural EPO, then it cannot be directly detected, and only ambiguous indirect methods can be used...
SanPellegrino seems to say that it already exists, which if true, is definitely a major defeat for the anti-doping agencies...

@Serutan: If you want, I can work on a translation to that interview to Le Monde over the next few days. Or try to find one online on cycling forums.

 

[MCdread]

Does anyone know if any long term side effects of EPO surfaced yet?
Like Hampsten, I can't believe you can do things like that and not pay a price later...

I heard that a few dozens of belgian and dutch riders died suddenly in the eraly 90s in a very short period of time. And the same continues to happen nowadays as Shabbaman says.

 

[Aggie]

True about these Dutch riders. I'm very suspicious regarding PDM (Rooks, Theunisse, Breukink and the affair in 1990 - they all got ill in one night, except for the staff). Breukink never reached the same level afterwards. Did he learn his lesson?

 

[SanPellegrino]

SanPellegrino seems to say that it already exists, which if true, is definitely a major defeat for the anti-doping agencies...

It is only rumoured. DynEpo isn't allowed as a medicament until now, but it is assumed that there is a big "field experiment" in the peloton...