Gridless Civ ?

[Patine]

Ah its only a coincidence that only you out of everyone complains, only you bother to whine in every single thread.
It's almost as if an attack on 'complexity' is a personal attack on yourself, and you just feel the need to come swooping in like some knight in shining armour.

So have you considered that I am not actually toxic, as the absence of other people's comments would suggest?
(my comment actually got likes in this thread which actually implies that I probably didn't say anything toxic)

And that maybe you are letting your hurt feelings control your needless comments in every thread?
Maybe you could keep to yourself? Only a suggestion

Is it only coincidence that you only personally attack and insult me for disagreeing with, and criticizing one's ideas,which is where this all begun, even thoulgh others have made such disagreements (which were oftten not even responded to by you, and even, "not seen," by your claims)? Perhaps we could go to the source. But I am not going to, "keep to myself,", or have my comments called. "needless," or coming out of, "hurt feelings," or other dismissive insults because some new poster decides they don't like me disagreeing with and criticizing their ideas because I have different opinions and viewpoints, which have much more grounding than the schoolyarrd namecalling they are termed as, which, again, is where this all started. I am not the type who kowtows to forum tinpot despot wannabes.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

To expand on my earlyer post I’m also thinking about the number of interactions and the complexity of figuring them out.

 

[Naokaukodem]

A map without tiles would need some other geometry to define movement and placement of Improvements, Cities, armies, etc on the map.

As I said, citizen assignation could work on a surface basis (the number of hectares you work for food) or in particular spots that don't necessarily take much space. (mines, bonus resources, etc.)

The mean you would achieve that, in a developer perspective, would be to create a map on man's view and decorate it with the various features, like in a game of Assassin's Creed or other open world game.

For example, you could have as many men on a location as the "hit boxes" of two men let them separated, distinct on this man's view. You might need to create "armies" still if you want to keep the "strategic view" (which is not obligatory) as we have it as a basis in every Civ up to date.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

A map without tiles would need some other geometry to define movement and placement of Improvements, Cities, armies, etc on the map.

The new game ARA appears to do it with Regions and Sub-Regions, but these are, basically, just Larger Tiles each of which potentially holds more Things. And larger tiles, of course, simply makes the map effectively Smaller because there are fewer options available for movement and possibly for placement.

Another way is to use Nodes and fixed lines of movement. The old board game Soldier Kings used this geometry, ion which each Node was a city or town and the roads between them were the only way you could move, and all movement was from Node to Node. This works very well when you are modeling a simplified situation, as that game did for the wars of western Europe in the mid-18th century, but it is far more problematic if the essence of the game is building an Empire and founding cities and therefore constantly changing the Nodes and methods of traversing the space between them.

One 'semi-tileless' method is to use tiles much smaller than the items displayed, so that placement and movement options are vastly increased. It's as if each tile in Civ VI became 10 tiles with all the 'extra' options for movement and placement within them. The obvious problem is that on Civ-sized maps it would make it impossible to tell what was in a tile without zooming in on it, so that the game would become a constant series of zoom in/zoom out actions until you became violently nauseated from vertigo.

I'm sure there are a host of other options, but those occured to me right away and, frankly, none of them appeal very much as any improvement over what we have now for ease of play and certainty of placement and space to place and maneuver game elements on the map.

Cyberpunk table game was a great gridless game example of that.
You had to paint your map, place your units, and then it was all about triangulations, and measurements ( a curved trajectory vs a straight line to overcome an obstacle )
Pretty lovely game, but you had to have a pretty good scientific calculator and be good at it!

Given the current AI trajectory (non-existent) I guess those AI units would end up doing nothing most of the
time, as calculating possible moves would kill any non ultra-recent CPU...

 

[Civinator]

Of course Firaxis will get rid of the tiles. I like tiles and since Civ 3 with its no longer existing caravans, Firaxis step by step removed the features I liked in the Civ series and especially since Civ 5 replaced them with stuff I don´t appreciate that much or don´t appreciate at all.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Of course Firaxis will get rid of the tiles. I like tiles and since Civ 3 with its no longer existing caravans, Firaxis step by step removed the features I liked in the Civ series and especially since Civ 5 replaced them with stuff I don´t appreciate that much or don´t appreciate at all.

Also Civ 4 had no caravans... but 3 and 4 had Great Generals like no other Civ in the series...