Grigori & The Altar of the Luonnotar

[Lone Wolf]

God-King is a naming problem.... I think of the civic as more of a centrally-controlled form of government early on, if it doesn't fit the leader.

I think the same stuff too. Theocracy Grigori doesn't really distrub me, through.

 

[Deon]

Of course Grigori cities have religions..... Cassiel doesn't support them, but doesn't persecute them either. However, a theocracy is much like an ecclesia.... the Church would make the rules.... in the case of the Grigori, which Church?

God-King is a naming problem.... I think of the civic as more of a centrally-controlled form of government early on, if it doesn't fit the leader. I figure, your first city will be the seat of your government to start. Eventually, a 2nd city will be founded, relying heavily on the favors of the citizens of the 1st city in many cases. Therefore, the 1st city (probably your capital) demands something in return.... in this case, gold and raw materials. Once several cities in addition to your cap are in existence, the concept starts to fall apart if a heavy-hand isn't used. So eventually, it makes economic sense to switch to a more sprawl-oriented civic (City States or Aristocracy).

So while Cassiel would never permit worship of him, city leaders may still expect tribute from other nearby establishments, at least early on.

About naming problem: it looks like it's very close to Empire, well at least japanese empire where the emperor was the only ruler and the main "god".

However the mechanics is about the capital and not about religion. Something with the name like "Centralized Government" would do the trick, and it means that we have a big country/province with a huge productive and powerful capital, like Imperial City in TES IV (Oblivion).

 

[Emptiness]

Or just rename it "Empire". It's shorter, and matches with "City States" better.

 

[apotheoser]

Or just rename it "Empire". It's shorter, and matches with "City States" better.

That wouldn't make any sense in practice, though. You would only use "Empire" when your civilization is small, and then switch to "City States" when you got really large?

The concepts are totally backwards. In reality, the opposite has always happened.

 

[Kyroshill]

I'm thinking that "unitary state" may be the most accurate description.... but it's not very dark fantasy sounding

 

[Honor]

Rename "God King" to "City States", and "City States" (the old one) to "Empire" (or "Imperialism")?

 

[Emptiness]

My reasoning was that most empires start small and then fall apart when they get too large.

 

[apotheoser]

Rename "God King" to "City States", and "City States" (the old one) to "Empire" (or "Imperialism")?

But then it doesn't explain the mechanics at all. Why would City States have a huge bonus in just the capital?

 

[Rystic]

The civic names are fine as they are.

 

[Kyroshill]

The civic names are fine as they are.

Ummmm..... nope...... see all the above posts.....

 

[Rystic]

Ummmm..... nope...... see all the above posts.....

They are fine. God-King produces everything you would expect it. City-States too. Why should the names change for the sake of one team?

 

[apotheoser]

They are fine. God-King produces everything you would expect it. City-States too. Why should the names change for the sake of one team?

Because the names should make sense in every circumstance, if possible.

 

[Rystic]

Because the names should make sense in every circumstance, if possible.

They fit fine, if you just take a minute to think about what they mean for the Grigori. God-King is just how the people regard Cassiel, and not necessary that he is demanding they worship him. And don't forget, the Grigori have a priest caste. Theocracy means that the Luonnatar hold the important political positions.

Not everything is meant to be taken literally. It really is a matter of interpretation.

 

[apotheoser]

They fit fine, if you just take a minute to think about what they mean for the Grigori. God-King is just how the people regard Cassiel, and not necessary that he is demanding they worship him. And don't forget, the Grigori have a priest caste. Theocracy means that the Luonnatar hold the important political positions.

Not everything is meant to be taken literally. It really is a matter of interpretation.

The Grigori are the least of the problems with God King. The real problem with God King is how can you have a state religion and/or switch religions if you're some kind of divine entity.

 

[Honor]

But then it doesn't explain the mechanics at all. Why would City States have a huge bonus in just the capital?

City people think they are independent states, so they work harder in the name of patriotism?

I was kidding anyway I don't really care what the civics are called. They can be called "Govt. Civic 1", "Govt. Civic 2", ... for all I care.

 

[Kyroshill]

TTheocracy means that the Luonnatar hold the important political positions.

Cassiel tolerates the Luonnatar..... I can't see him putting them in power as a form of governing his people.


God-King is not a general term.... this is a very particular title.... it fits Auric, and possibly Lorda.... and I'm sure Perpy would get a kick out of being mistaken for a god for a bit..... but other than that "Monarchy" or "absolute monarchy" is much more accurate (or even "Dictatorship")

Sorry for the snarky comment earlier.... you hadn't made an argument then though

 

[Rystic]

Cassiel tolerates the Luonnatar..... I can't see him putting them in power as a form of governing his people.

He doesn't have to. They can be elected. Theocracy can represent the Luonnatar being the party in power.

God-King is not a general term.... this is a very particular title.... it fits Auric, and possibly Lorda.... and I'm sure Perpy would get a kick out of being mistaken for a god for a bit..... but other than that "Monarchy" or "absolute monarchy" is much more accurate (or even "Dictatorship")

But Cassiel has divinity. He's an angel. The Grigori might just view him as a God-King, anyway.

 

[Rystic]

The Grigori are the least of the problems with God King. The real problem with God King is how can you have a state religion and/or switch religions if you're some kind of divine entity.

Who's going to question you if you do? You're a God-King; your orders are divine.

 

[Gigaz]

Does anyone else think that the Grigori need a real goal? Every other civ seems to want something. The manual claims that Cassiel wants to end the influence of the gods on Erebus, but he does nothing to achieve that. He's not a friend of war but peace doesn't fit either because the adventurers want some action. He doesn't want the apocalypse but he doesn't care how many sins the humans commit. If he'd want power he would demand worship. He quite likes Erebus the way it is.

 

[dyx]

But Cassiel has divinity. He's an angel. The Grigori might just view him as a God-King, anyway.

The whole Grigori story is about Cassiel teaching his followers that the gods aren't gods, I can' imagine the reasoning behind him being revered as a god.
Not even if he doesn't say so himself and the people make it up. The story revolves around Cassiel being the philosophical guide, he would have wasted endless years of teaching his people if they were to suddenly revere him as a god.
It's just totally strange.

But I don't think that the names of the civics should make sense for each faction. It doesn't fit the Grigori to adapt Theocracy, well, it's not like it says at every point "HEY LOOK WE'RE A THEOCRACY!".
It's not like empires with hundreds of millions of people make sense, especially when being elven empires.
These are just the small things you can ignore.