Grrrrrrrrrrr

[Squirrel Ninja]

I was really looking forward to this game being a long time player of civ1+2, call to power and AC but now I have it all I want to do is jump up and down on the CD until its nothing but dust. I'm only half way through my first tuturial game and already I cannot be bothered to play on, maybe its just me and I'm missing some fundamental concept but all this game is doing is irritating me to the point where I just want to slit my own wrists and end the misery.

Can someone please anwser me the following questions so that I can least establish whether its me doing something wrong or the game is totally screwed.

1. Why oh why are all my cities except about 7 or 8 of them are totally worthless? They produce a grand old 1 sheild each and no matter how I organize the workers thats the maximum I can get out of them. Why? I mean I know corruption and waste affects cities, especially if they are a distance from the capital but this is ridiculous and whats more even governments where corruption is supposed to have less of an effect dont appear to help at all. But wait I can build a forbidden palace right? WTH how the hell am I supposed to build the stupid thing with one(yes count them) shield, it'll take 4 billion years complete it unless I rush it, ooops I forgot I cant rush wonders anymore, great, nice one.

2. Why are the enemy civilisations so pathetic? The year is 1450, having been placed on the opposite side of the world than everyone else and Navigation now being a later discovery I have only just made contact with the other civs and I only did that because I suicided a galley across an ocean. Anyway all the other civs are all buddy buddy with each other and so I set about establishing embassies and to discover(to my horror) that when I get the embassy and see their capitals they have NOTHING, not a single improvement in any of the other civs capitals, not even a granary or a barracks, what the hell is that all about. So with no improvements they must surely have great armies, yeah if a couple of long obsolete spearmen are a great army otherwise they have NOTHING, they are more advanced than me(only slightly) and yet have very small numbers of very weak units. WHAT THE HELL DOES THE AI SPEND ALL ITS SHIELDS ON? I could hammer all of them but what would be the point, I already have a truckload of 1 shield producing cities of my own and anymore and I'll throw the monitor out the window.

So what are my options now, I carry on playing and wait 5 billion years for my forbidden palace while twidling my thumbs because I have nothing else to do. War is pointless because the cities are useless to me, defence is pointless because the other civs are so pathetic they could never cause me any damage, diplomacy is pointless because why bother. The only thing I have to do is set research goals so why dont I just set the goal to the most advanced tech and press the enter key a few hundred times, the playability of this game is truly outstanding

It appears to me that to make the game diffculty all they have done is make it impossible to have more than a handful of cities to make up for the fact the AI is useless. Hey firaxis try programming a decent AI rather than constraining the player so much they lose the will to live.

So whenever I have any gaming time I have the option of my two newest games, Civ 3 or Wolfenstein. Which shall I play I wonder, Civ 3 so I can give my finger a workout my skipping a few hundred turns or Wolfenstein which I will actually have some FUN playing. Geez I used to love civ, no more, two days of Civ 3 and the past 8 years of joy from playing the various other civ games has been wiped out, dont bother making a civ 4 of its anything like this pile of toss spit.

 

[PirateMac]

S. Ninja,
Frustration is part of the game. "If it doesn't kill you it will only make you stronger."
1.Check old treads regarding the corruption/waste in outlying cities and mods to help correct it.
2. try playing at a harder level.
Sorry the game is eating you up so much but I like it, and,how can you let a meer computer game defeat you.
March forward! :soldier:

 

[zebomba]

Corruption is huge but I don't care. Managing more than 20 is out of my mind. As for the forbidden, a leader is all it takes.
If you think the AI is pathetic, then patch the game and play some deity AIs.
Please come back and tell us if they are still pathetic.

 

[Squirrel Ninja]

Out of love for the past games I have decided I shall play on just to see it to the bitter end. With regard to corruption being a huge problem, I have no problem with corruption and its effects if there is at least some kind of LOGIC to it. There is no logic to what I'm expriencing, I have a city which is toward the north end of my island(capital is in the south) and it suffers quite badly from corruption in a LOGICAL way in that its far from the captial and I get a lot of corruption but I take the right steps and it improves(change my government, build a courthouse, make city workers more production orientated, build more mines etc etc) It still suffers badly even with these improvements(around half shields wasted) but I can live with that, makes sense in my mind. I have another city which is only 4 squares away from the city I just mentioned yet no matter what I do(all steps above) it aint producing more than 1 shield, doesnt make sense to me whatsoever. Why? can anyone explain this phenomenon because its driving me crazy.

Managing more than 20 is out of my mind

I wish for 20, I have like 6 that are good, 2 which are badly corrupt but in a fair way so are ok and the rest are just junk and a total waste of time and resourses. I mean I dread to think how much I've spent developing these cities in the belief they will pay off in the long run, now I find I would of been better off not bothering which seems to be a major flaw in the game in my eyes.

You seem to be saying the AI is actually fairly good, well from what I have seen it is pretty poor. I mean come on 5000 years and not one improvement and no army Those shields have to be going somewhere and they aint set to wealth because they all have like 40 gold in their treasury. Having said all of this I accept I am playing the tutorial and I will trust your word that once I get into the game at proper difficulty settings this kind of thing wont happen. Please tell me on higher levels the computer does actually build improvements and that when I check their capital I will see an array of modern structures much like my own capital and most of my other main cities(the ones not producing like 1 shield).

But the city thing, I mean come on there has to be some kind of solution to this otherwise I'm never going to have more than a few cities per game and I will never bother going to war because its pointless, thus a major part of the game is lost.

 

[Libertarian]

Perhaps the best solution is to play something else.

 

[Talamane]

You made me curious, though. I've attached a jpg of Berlin (Germany gave me a LOT of trouble later). Have you patched the game, is your computer reasonably above min spec for the game?

Huge map, 10 civs, warlord level. No great shakes. BTW, i barely beat him to Copernicus's Observatory; a wonder i really like to have.

 

[Shaitan]

Make sure you've got the patch. It did wonders in helping with the rampant corruption.

What size world are you on? The smaller the world, the less cities you can have before massive corruption sets in.

As previously mentioned, definitely try a higher difficulty level. The tutorial is a complete waste.

 

[Ironikinit]

I haven't played the tutorial, but on every difficulty level I have played, the AI will build improvements and field an army.

As for corruption, make sure you have the patch.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Squirrel Ninja
1. Why oh why are all my cities except about 7 or 8 of them are totally worthless? They produce a grand old 1 sheild each and no matter how I organize the workers thats the maximum I can get out of them.

In the tutorial, don't expect much from the AI. You've probably expanded far more than was expected for the scenario, so quit the tutorial and try a game on a more appropriate level for your obvious ability. In many games at the higher levels, you won't have to worry about corruption in the far reaches of your empire - sometimes you may have trouble just holding on to your native cities.

If you do acquire a large empire, dampen the corruption in the far reaches of your empire by using a Great Leader to rush-build the Forbidden Palace.

 

[Squirrel Ninja]

Ok so I patched my game and corruption seems to be not so bad anymore in that I can get more than one shield out of my cities that are on another continent. I just finsished building the FP and they are all now producing nicely and things are looking good

Also the improvements thing, its the strangest thing I've seen in the game so far. Basically not a single city controlled by one of the other civs had a single improvement when I first contacted them but soon after I made contact they all went into overdrive and now have a good array of improvements in their cities. I cant understand why this is so because they had 1000's of years before I met them but they didnt think it was worth doing until my lone suicide galley came a sailing up their shoreline. Very odd.

Ok having played some more I actually really like the game, it requires much more thought than previous civ games and has some real nice features. I do however have the following questions if someone would be so kind as to anwser them I'd be most grateful.

1. War between AI civs. Ok I was happily playing away and every couple of turns I would check the foreign advisor screen to see what relations the other civs had with each other. I was hoping they were going to start wars with each other and then me as the dominant civ on the opposite side of the world could come across(in a very american kind of way) deicide who I liked the best(aint gonna be the russians thats for sure) and administer some corrective punishment to the loser. Well I never saw a red line between any of the other civs and so figured there could be no wars until recently I decided to retire(after saving) just to see how I was doing and watched that replay thing you get after seeing your score. Now watching this I see the Russians capture several French towns and then have a go at the English(the commie scum) and take one of their cities as well, the English then counter attacked and retook their city(take that you fat Russian witch).

My point is I had made contact with these civs before this happened and i had embassies with all of them yet I got no messages informing me war had been declared nor did I see any red lines symbolising wars on the foreign advisor screen. So my question is how do I know when two civs are at war with one another and surely I should get a message telling me about it when war is declared.

2. Why does the AI seem to have no concept of a fair deal? I mean being on the opposite side of the world to everyone(except the Egyptians who were on my island at the start but I wiped them out early on due to a diplomatic incident over a river) I was a late entrant to the trading game. None of the other civs will give me anything approaching a fair deal on trades, even the Greeks who I thought were my friends but they were the most tight-fisted out of all them, last time I help them with their technology.

All I wanted was a one for one trade, silks for wine or something like that but not only will they not accept this I had to give them Silks, Incense, horses AND 5 gold a turn just for some manky old spices.

3. I made a big mistake, I developed my naval tech pretty early being separated from the rest of the world as I am while the other civs didnt bother. So I had good ships and was mapping the world nicely while they were still rowing around in their galleys. Anyway the Greeks asked for Navigation(or whatever tech it is that gives caravels) and seeing as they were my friends(this is before they tried to stitch me up in trade negotiations) and I'd had the tech for a while I gave it to them. I knew they'd give it to everyone else if I didnt so I also sold it to all the other civs. Next thing I know theres flood of settlers trampling over my beautiful island plonking cities in the little one space gaps I had left on the edges of my borders. Now I cant live with this, this island is my birth right after all and I'm not about to share it with a load of smelly Russians. Should I go to war with these three civs in order to destroy their fiendish plot to take over my homeland or should I wait and see if their cities convert due to my vastly superior culture? Also does the peace that exists between two civs(the standard peace that you get when you first make contact) count as a treaty? What I'm asking is if I proceed to hammer them even though we are at peace(I never signed anything I might add) will this affect my reputation for breaking a treaty? Also I have a trade deal with one of the trespassers, obvioulsy war will end that but does the trade deal count as a treaty and so by declaring war will I count as having broken a treaty and be labelled a war monger?

 

[zebomba]

If you keep playing on easy levels, of course they'll act like morons.
Since your civ will be obviously the biggest, they won't give things away easily. Would you give luxuries that give 4 happy folks in every city of a big civ? Or give oil to the Zulus so they can have tanks? No? I thought so.
And unless you're trying a diplo victory, don't bother about your reputation too much.

 

[Ironikinit]

1. I have received notices when an AI player declares war on another AI player and also when the wars have ended. Is it possible that the Russo-Frano and Russo-Anglo wars were prior to your establishing embassies? As a sidenote, I can't seem to get the replay to work on retirement. Upon re-reading your post, you seem real sure that the embassies were in place.

2. The AI rarely gives a good deal on luxury trades, I agree. Personally, if all they'd give is "Silks, Incense, horses AND 5 gold a turn just for some manky old spices" I would've told them to stick it. Later on they might give a better deal or someone else will want spices.

3. Wait and see if the encroaching cities convert via culture. Also, I'm of the opinion that the human player should avoid declaring war if possible. Try baiting the AI player into declaring war by repeatedly demanding that the AI remove troops in your territory. You can do that more than once per turn.

 

[zebomba]

2. It really depends on your civ's size. I myself like to give things for free to see my enemies fighting.
I even gave motorized trans, oil, rubber, horses, saltpeter, 4 luxuries, and cash to a civ that was losing big. Of course I could use it myself, but why finish the game so early? It's so fun to have the civs fighting each other while I watch the fireworks.
3.Doing it several times a turn doesn't work, since it's the same request. But crossing their borders, signing embargos, and blackmailing them sure do work.

 

[Selous]

yes ... i enjoy being the master of puppets also .... the evil mind behind the wars of the world .... and all u need is to be superiour in one matter .... be that rich as hell ... first in science or got lots of resorces to trade them ...... anything other than big arse military ..... and if u got the big arse military .... the small brainy civs pay u to kill people ... hmmmm ... so who is getting the better deal u think? ... hehe ... vicious circle!!!

 

[Baccus]

Well I played the tutorial and it was ok, but not great. However, now I'm into a real game, I'm playing on Warlord level and it is rock! I went for a huge map with 3 civs, so there was plenty of room for development, thinking that (as I did in civ 2) I would paste the AI to the wall in this sort of environment, especially on this difficulty level. Far from it! It is 1750 AD, I have the smallest civ (but not by a long way), and though I have been very culture focussed I still am lagging behind in culture! I have fought a fairly lengthy war against the Babylonians (I achieved all objectives - i.e. got all their cities that were on 'my' continent and reclaimed my city that they had captured). Even in this war, the Babs gave me a bit of a run for my money - one of my cities was looking a bit in danger for a while. The AI is _much_ better then Civ II, the Babs did try to send some units from their continent, fortunately I sank all their Caravels with my Men-of-War! However, in the power stakes I am still no.3, on about 870 points, with the Babs on 1030 and the Persians on 1300. On a Warlord level!! I can't believe it - I'M NOT WINNING!!! WHAT'S GOING ON??!! I may have to go back to Civ 2 just for the good of my pride - I'm feeling very humble at the moment! So scrap your tutorial, just get into a proper game and you'll find it a lot more rewarding. As for the corruption, I did have to build the Forbidden Palace on my 2nd continent, as corruption was rife, but my great leader (just got him when I took the final city from the babs - phew! Main reason I fought the war was to get a great leader!) built it in no time (would have been 300 turns otherwise. If you'd like a challenge, Squirrel Ninja, I'll happily post a few of my save games for you to download and have a bash at. Try rescuing my civ from the bronze medal if you like! I'm fairly ahead with tech, just don't seem to be able to surpass the AI! I'll post the games once I get home from work.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Baccus
I can't believe it - I'M NOT WINNING!!! WHAT'S GOING ON??!! I may have to go back to Civ 2 just for the good of my pride -

Did I ever tell you about my Luxembourg strategy?

"Well, Catherine, you look wonderful today"
"Xerses, surely a man of your intelligence and wisdom could tone down the Immortals a teensy, weeny bit, couldn't you?"
"My Dear Bismark, what big Panzers you have. Could I convince you to eat someone else?"
"Joan, Baby, give me some iron, pretty please"

 

[Squirrel Ninja]

If you'd like a challenge, Squirrel Ninja, I'll happily post a few of my save games for you to download and have a bash at

Hehehe sure I like a challenge, you never know I might be able to pull you back from the brink, though I wouldn't hold your breath on that one Even so I'd like to have a go just because I like to see how other ppl build civs and how it relates to my own approach to empire building.

 

[zebomba]

We agree to not crush your pathetic civ if you give us the secret of Luxembourg Strategy!

 

[Troyens]

1. That damn cheating AI, and that includes trade and diplomacy cheats.

2. Ocean-going AI galleys.

3. Absurdly high Espionage costs, and spies of limited efficacy.

4. No way to use privateers or subs to harm an enemy's trade.

5. Workers wandering around your territory who won't leave.

6. Very stubborn Diplomatic AI.

7. Much too high corruption.

8. Much too rare strategic resources.

9. Somewhat too easy culture flipping.

10. Disappearing garrisons in culture flipping cities.

11. Disappearing garrisons and colonies when the AI builds a city near you.

12. Land-grabbing AI settlers building cities right next to you or in deserts, grabbing land and resources or cutting your road network.

13. Some weird military unit values (Privateers, subs, ironclads, et al, too low).

14. Lack of Historical realism: Immortals did NOT have swords; galleys did NOT fire broadsides; and War elephants were lousy on defense, among other thins.

15. The Editor has limitations, and the inability to zoom on the map is a major one.

16. Lack of truly depicting the importance of Great Leaders in battle. Army units don't cut it.

17. Lack of ability to control or move groups of military units as one unit; to move them as a group.

18. Two lousy World Maps supplied with the game. Better maps can be found on this site.

19. Reticence of AI nations to war on each other.

And other things.

Some of these can be changed in the Editor, and I have. Others can't.

But I still play the game and like it.

BUT I WANT SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS PATCHED. The original patch was a stopgap for some serious problems. We need a better one.

 

[cutiestar]

Troyens do you complain about every game you play, when they maybe don't have the certain gun you wanted to use, or maybe haven't put ammunition exactly where you would have liked it? or maybe because they sent two creatures to attack you, when your reactions can only possibly deal with one at a time. I don't want to change the topic of this thread, but the game is designed how it is, play it that way and stop expecting it to be made the way you want it.

As for this thread it seems the problem has been resolved, good on you, a slightly higher level and a FP and a different strategy than was used in CIV II, would be a great start.