Grumpy Old Men AWP Hub

[ThERat]

This plan would only last until the AI get's galleons though, but I think it would be worth it to get our Choke cities developed.

I hope that once the AI has galleons we have ironclads already and can fight off any threat. Unfortunately their speed is limited, so we might want to have a number of them. We should get some cities dedicated to build naval units, so they should build drydocks beforehand. Suggest Cologne as one of them due to the whipping capability.

 

[Bezhukov]

lurker comment:

With a drydock and one victory, a clad can get the navigation promotion for +1 move, at 10 exp, nav 2 gives another. Still just 4 total though. The path is flanking, nav 1, nav 2, and given their relative strength, you don't lose much choosing these. I even took the sentry promotion next (+1 visibilty).

 

[Tatran]

Current French situation. I moved away all but two Caravels since France cannot get across:

There was a thread more than a month ago about galleys crossing
ocean tiles. I'm not sure if you're safe from galley invasion, because
there is some culture covering ocean tiles.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=152400

 

[Bezhukov]

When at war, the enemy cannot use your culture to traverse ocean tiles, nor can you use their's.

 

[Greebley]

I think the biggest problem with Ironclads is that they cannot stop landings. A galleon with units can be in a sea square move in and and drop off units. The Iron clad cannot attack when it is in the sea square.

On the other hand I think the AI is still a ways from Galleons.

I think we can push to the 2 square choke fairly easily. Setting it up will take a bit, but we have the troops to do it. I think we should wait for the strength 12 Grenadiers (which is pretty much now) as we will have stacks attacked that are not in forest or cities.

 

[Bezhukov]

lurker comment: the cool thing about grenadiers is that virtually anything can upgrade to them, giving them access to lots of promotions indirectly.

 

[ThERat]

as for naval power, I really hope ironlads will be enough for a while so we can hold off astronomy for a while and go for destroyer first. Destroyers and transports are what we need anyway.

We should be able to hold off the enemy at sea, we could block at all the sea chokes. Once we have a nice amount of grenadiers, we could also try and raze some French towns while taking over Inca land.

 

[T_McC]

I've hit a busy stretch at work and may not be able to play this tonight. I will be able to play tomorrow, so if you're impatient skip me. Otherwise I'll have the game back up by Wednesday night.

I noticed we haven't used our Great Scientist yet. I'm not sure an Academy is all that worthwhile relative to the ~2900 beakers he would give towards Education. Seems like we would need >150 turns to get 2900 beakers from the Academy. We'll get another GP from Munich on my round and I was thinking: Another Scientist (57%), use one to research Education; Engineer (~14%) use Engineer to rush a Wonder (probably Chichen Itza, possibly save for Versailles), keep Scientist around; Other (~28%), use two GP to start GA.

Thoughts?

I would also like to get a GP out of Cologne before we go whip-happy there (which would require all hands in the field). We can't beat Munich to the next one, but we can get the 900-point GP from Cologne in ~20 turns. After that it won't catch Munich in any reasonable length of time, even with running 5 specialists, so then we can go food heavy and whip to our hearts content.

 

[Bezhukov]

lurker comment:

You're awfully close to the (relatively cheap) Banking, which gives you specialists in all cities via the Mercantilism civic, including a scientist for the academy. If you're able to manage Representation at some point, those specialists then generate beakers that an academy would also boost.

 

[Greebley]

I was thinking a golden age would be good use of the scientist. This is a good time for a golden age in that we plan to take out an AI in the near future and can use the boost to do so.

 

[T_McC]

Played a few turns last night. Smooth sailing, we built the HGs but our next GP was also a scientist, so no free wonder or GA.

Have about 3 turns to go, kill ratio is ~60-5 with 3 losses by boats, so maintaining a 20-1 on land. Smackdown of Incans is starting in earnest.

 

[T_McC]

1400 AD (0)
Shuffle a few tiles, add a Priest or two.

Kill that stack Ghandi had, without loss. Bunch of 95%+ battles, scored a couple of additional promotions. I'm guessing those troops are primarily intended to whack the Incans, so I'll see what I can do. (5-0)

1405 AD (1)
Kill four of Louis units. Shuffle Caravels around to cover our fishing nets from the Incans.

1410 AD (2)
Need more Catapults for the assault. This is a logistical mess with all the boats we have strewn about creation.

Kill another pair of Louis soldiers, then sink two of Khan's Galleys that each had a pair of units aboard. (17-0)

Big mixed stack on the horizon, not sure which city will be targeted.

1415 AD (3)
Win 2 of 3 in the water vs. Huyana and one more vs. Khan. Then kill the two units Khan was able to land near the southern choke. Lose 1 more in the water at good odds. Have to keep building boats because naval combat is always a cointoss. (22-2)

Start to congeal an attack on the ex-Barb city in Incan territory. I figure this is a raze and replace job.

1420 AD (4)
HC loses a boat, Louis loses another couple of land units. Peel three units off the top of the multi-national stack that was heading for Duis, now it is irrelevant and will be terminated next round. Hattie loses a loaded Galley. (31-2)

1425 AD (5)
And then Louis loses another 4 units. Hattie loses a Galley. Then lose first land unit of the round while killing four of Hatties. (40-3)

Louis is now trying to sneak a Galley around our choke.

1430 AD (6)
Lose coinflip vs. Roman Caravel. That could have made the same attack last turn.

You're a whiz, Louis. That Galley dropped units off in front of Cologne.

Kill about 8 and lose 1 on land, avenge the dead Caravel. (49-5)

1435 AD (7)
We complete the Hanging Gardens, discover Philosophy, and pop another Great Scientist. Euclid contributes 3/4 of Education to the cause.

Kill 7 more units on land. (56-5)

1440 AD (8)
Kill 2 more land units and see another couple of stacks coming into view. More cannon fodder. (58-5)

Start to bombard an Incan city. We're a little goofed up by a couple of ocean tiles that prevent a direct route for the Galleys.

Decide to whip Globe Theatre, since we're losing 2 fpt to health anyway. Costs 3 pop. Let the GP be born in Cologne in ~10 turns and then put everyone back into the fields.

1445 AD (9)
Win 2 on the IT, then 6 more on our turn. (66-5)

Building a lot of infrastructure.

Biding our time bombing the Incan city. Should be good to go next turn. There is also a nice stack of AI units bearing down on Duis.

1450 AD (10)
The Incans have Knights. Win one, lose one, have a withdrawal on the IT.

Bombard, win 5 and burn Goth to the ground. We score 131 gold from the sacking, so almost a Pike-->Grenadier upgrade.

Then clean up a couple of Incan units and an Egyptian Galley. Kill 4 of Khan's units at Duis. (79-6)

Education in, Liberalism in 9.

Final Notes:
Somewhere along the line the Incans build Chichen Itza. Fairly irrelevant for us attacking them, but we would like to have the wonder. I think we should be able to zoom in on a city before we attack it and see Chichen Itza. I was guardedly optimistic that after razing the northern two Incan cites we could blitz them, but ... check out the number of units in Machu Picchu.

It's going to be a slog. We want 2-3 more Accuracy Catapults before we acquire Steel. From there I would figure City Raider II Cannons. The oddly promoted Pikes are proto-Grenadiers so we can have City Raiders.

 

[T_McC]

The spot we burned:

The city location (blue dot) is pretty good, and I would re-found there. I only razed because I didn't want the hassle of waiting for resistance to end. The red dot gets us corn faster and is on fresh water, but loses a forest.

I was hoping that after razing/replacing Vilcas we could start to capture, but I am doubting the Incans are going to fade quietly. We may need to target further razing before we have enough troops to wait out a resistance and maintain the offensive.

The settler for re-founding that city is active, and another is in production. Given the number of HAs that Huyana has running around I think we will need at least a couple of Pikes or Garrison II Grenadiers to man the city upon founding. Huyana is bleeding troops against our invasion force, so I would expect an open city like the one we found to attract some attention.

There is also another Medic on the shores looking for a ride. We probably want to have the option of splitting our attack stack, or would like to have one in any target cities we found.

Our game-long kill ratio is 633-74, and if you exclude navies our land-based kill ratio is 572-55. Better than 10:1, and a nearly 2:1 production advantage over each AI, yet the AI don't appear to be particularly gassed. We're also still 3rd in troops, so I have no idea how that number is calculated.

 

[ThERat]

Roster
ThERat
Greebley
T_McC
knupp715 - up

I would also settle that city, with only Huayna attacking it, we should be able to hold it. Once we have cannons we should be able to take those cities out. By the way, which research path are we taking after that? Straight for coal so we can build ironclads? I suggest that.

 

[Bezhukov]

lurker comment:

why not grab the (cheap) banking to get a free specialist in all your cities?

 

[knupp715]

I've got the save and I'll see what I can do as far as warring with Incas goes.

 

[T_McC]

Any progress?

 

[knupp715]

Yeah, I'll post the turn-set soon.

 

[knupp715]

This was a very difficult set of turns indeed.

(0) IBT: Kill Egyptian galley with our caravel but lose our caravel to another. Two Indian galleys attack and severly wound but lose to our Magellan Caravel.

(1) Munich--> Starts University

IBT: Beat 6 units, lose 1

(2) Hamburg--> Courthouse--> Knight
Dortmund--> Settler--> Grenedier
Stuttgart--> Caravel--> Caravel
Hanover--> Builds harbor--> Starts forge

Kill 12 units. Lose two units (bad luck 74% and 86%) Seems my awesome run with the RNG in this game is coming to an end...

IBT: Lose two caravels, one battle was a coinflip, the other was our wounded Magellan caravel to an Indian caravel.

(3) Kill 1 unit Then I look over and see this...



T McC, you were right, the Incans aren't going to just fade away.

IBT: Lose 6 units by the Incan stack but kill 3. Lose a battle in the sea but win two more.

(4) Kill a unit.
Whip a longbowman in Vilicambra to prepare for the Incan stack. Found Leipzig, hoping the stack will go there instead of the poorly defended Vilicambra...



IBT: Win 3 battles.

(5) Beat Mongolian galley and Egyptian Caravel. Kill 2 units on land.

IBT: The Incan stack attacks Leipzig and we win 10 battles but lose 3. We barely hold onto the city with only 2 explorers defending, but rienforcements will arrive next turn.

(6) Situation is...well...let me show you...



Units are flooding into our territory and it is impossible to attack out of our cities because of the variety in the stacks. All odds are below 50% Therefore, catapults are free to bomb defenses down.

IBT: Kill 6 units and an enemy catapult withdraws.

(7) Berlin--> Builds Grocer--> Starts Grenedier. I see an oppurtunity to attack out of Duisburg and grab it. Kill 9 units.

(8) Hamburg--> Knight--> Starts Grenedier
Essen--> Builds market--> Starts Grenedier
Bremen--> Builds courthouse--> Starts caravel

Kill 7 units but lose one (damn you RNG 84% odds!!!)

IBT: Win 11 but lose 3. That battle occured in the forest outside Duisburg. We are losing a lot of units near Duisburg... Then we lose 2 galleys but beat an Incan caravel.

(9) YES! Liberalism. I grab steel as the free tech. Hopefully cannons will give us the upper hand again. Start research on banking for mercantilism and it is cheap at only 4 turns. I cut back research to 0% though because we need some serious upgrades in order to stay alive.

Dortmund--> Builds Grenedier--> and what, it doesn't have barracks This is an ATROCITY I bet you can guess what it started next...

Kill the wounded caravel that killed one of our galleys last turn but the other one still has full health so I can't attack it. Unfortunately can't attack out of either choke city, damn gigantic multi-national armies.

IBT: Beat 7 units and lose 1. Lose another galley to a caravel!!! We are losing our power in the sea.

(10) My computer crashes Take a 30 minute break to let it cool off and start the game up again.

Frankfurt--> Builds Grocer--> Starts cannon
Kill 6 units.

IBT: Kill 9, Lose 3

(11) Berlin--> Grenedier--> Starts cannon
Stuttgart--> Builds caravel--> Starts drydock
Hanover--> Forge--> Barracks

Kill 3 units.

As you can see I accidently played 11 turns due to a repetition in the turn number in my notes. I'll only play 9 turns next time. Sorry, overview coming up...

 

[knupp715]

Overview:



A great person is going to be born in Cologne next turn. After that we should get rid of specialists there, make the city grow and whip a lot of units.

Research is back up but I suggest turning it back down for upgrades in Duisburg. That city needs more units shipped over there ASAP. BTW, we lost the forest 1 tile west of Duisburg and don't have enough units to take out of Duisburg and gaurd the forest again. Let's hope the AI doesn't go through there and to Vilicambra...

War weariness started hurting us so I whipped a few places to get rid of the angry citizens there. I also left all the workers unmoved because I was having a hard time finding things for them to do.

The AI is getting stronger, a lot stronger. I believe this was the worst Kill ratio yet at 102:26 (About 100:30) and would have been even worse if I didn't play an extra turn.

Good Luck!