knupp715
King
Forgot the save.
good luck (again):
good luck (again):
Grumpy Old Men AWP Hub
- Thread starter ThERat
- Start date
ThERat
Deity
I actually find the same at times, Civ4 can be very bad for the computer and sometimes it simply switches off after too much playing
Anyway, this turnset sounded rough, I think we need cannons a lot and then defend, clear the land and go ahead again.
As stated, ironclads will really help us.
got it
knupp715
King
ThERat said:
That is exactly what happens to me. If I play Civ4 for an extended period of time sometimes it just switches off. Really makes me mad, especially when I'm playing a multiplayer game
Yes, hopefully ironclads will help us in the sea and cannons on land.
ThERat
Deity
save
Pre-Turn
Cologne has lost one fish net, attack the wounded caravel and sink it [1-0]
the net is still intact
increase lux to 10% to fight off unhappiness
the stacks near Duisburg and Cologne seem impressive
1. 1510AD
we get a Great Scientist that could help us research PP much faster, keep him for that
we need coal and ironclads
defeat 4 units at Cologne, Duisburg is more of a problem [5-0]
2 more units from Cologne arrive at Duisburg via galley
we can't attack the forest and they will most likely invade the south
fire specialists at Cologne for whip gallore
whip court in Villa
IT as expected some units go south at Duisburg, battles go 3:1 losing an experienced grenadier [8-1]
2. 1515AD
whip cannon in Cologne, Cologne's ideal size should be around 6-8 or so
defeat 5 units at Duisburg [14-1]
IT we survive 7:1 at Dusiburg heavily wounded, that city is in deep trouble [21-2]
3. 1520AD
defeat a Mongol galley and 2 units at Cologne
use scientist to cut research for PP from 10 to 2 turns
frantically try and send 2 more units to Duisburg, I think we might lose town
need to defeat a caravel using 2 of ours [25-3]
IT miraculously win 8:1 with heavily wounded unit but lose our super xbow
the AI stacks do not ease at all and they all go for Duisburg [33-4]
4. 1525AD
just to give you an idea what we are talking about
these are 15 units directly next to Duisburg
beat 1 chariot in the south, use cannon on smaller stack with higher odds and win [35-4]
IT we go 4:0 on defense, not too shabby hopefully this will be enough to heal our troops [39-4]
Incas turn up at Leipzig
we get PP next is RP on the way to coal
5. 1530AD
our income shot up and we can now afford 10% lux and 60% science
I hate naval battles, lose caravel to loaded galley, 2nd caravel beats it
there are now 21 units directly next to Duisburg
beat 4 units south of Duisburg
at Cologne beat 2 units [45-4]
whip next cannon there
decide to revolt now to mercantilism
IT we lose a galley to caravel but go 4:0 at Duisburg [49-5]
6. 1535AD
mercantilism is in and research time went up???
there are now 7 units south of Duisburg, we need to clear them which we do without loss
also defeat that caravel that killed a galley
and defeat a knight at Leipzig [58-5]
with more units inside Duisburg, things look slightly better
whip theatre in Villa
IT we go 3:1 on defense in Duisburg, Cologne seems to be totaly neglected as long as the forest tile isn't covered
[61-6]
7. 1540AD
beat 3 units around Duisburg including mace and phant on top of a stack
then 2 cannons come in and defeat 2 units + soften the rest
defeat 1 more unit + 1 at Cologne and at Leipzig
[69-6]
shuttle service between Cologne and Duisburg brings in more units
IT bad round, go 2:2 at Leipzig (ill founded city at this stage IMHO)
lose caravel to 2 galleys after beating one
at Duisburg win 1 battle [73-10]
8. 1545AD
cannons are our friends as we can kill and soften
defeat 3 units at Duisburg, but there is only 1 HA in the forest left [76-10]
IT we lose 2 units at Leipzig, city seems doomed to me for now [76-12]
9. 1550AD
due to added defenses at Duisburg, AI moves towards Cologne again as well, good
with the help of 2 cannons reduce at stack of 7 at Duisburg forest to 1 unit
kill one more south of it, send a knight south to Leipzig to help out
defeat 1 unit next to Cologne and whip a cannon there, keep the whips at this smaller size as it will grow fast
finally battle tally: [84-12]
those stacks are pretty light (inside our borders only 15 units) and I am confident we can retake the forest and defend properly there
cannons really turn the tide and I hope ironclads will do exactly the same
Berlin is churing out caravels and we really need them. Stuttgart will get a drydock in 5 and also needs to go for naval unit
Hanburg is working on a bank since it's our income city.
RP is due in 6 and then we can use the few workers we have to build some lumbermills
steam power after that will take fairly long to research but we need coal badly
Pre-Turn
Cologne has lost one fish net, attack the wounded caravel and sink it [1-0]
the net is still intact
increase lux to 10% to fight off unhappiness
the stacks near Duisburg and Cologne seem impressive
1. 1510AD
we get a Great Scientist that could help us research PP much faster, keep him for that
we need coal and ironclads
defeat 4 units at Cologne, Duisburg is more of a problem [5-0]
2 more units from Cologne arrive at Duisburg via galley
we can't attack the forest and they will most likely invade the south
fire specialists at Cologne for whip gallore
whip court in Villa
IT as expected some units go south at Duisburg, battles go 3:1 losing an experienced grenadier [8-1]
2. 1515AD
whip cannon in Cologne, Cologne's ideal size should be around 6-8 or so
defeat 5 units at Duisburg [14-1]
IT we survive 7:1 at Dusiburg heavily wounded, that city is in deep trouble [21-2]
3. 1520AD
defeat a Mongol galley and 2 units at Cologne
use scientist to cut research for PP from 10 to 2 turns
frantically try and send 2 more units to Duisburg, I think we might lose town
need to defeat a caravel using 2 of ours [25-3]
IT miraculously win 8:1 with heavily wounded unit but lose our super xbow
the AI stacks do not ease at all and they all go for Duisburg [33-4]
4. 1525AD
just to give you an idea what we are talking about
these are 15 units directly next to Duisburg
beat 1 chariot in the south, use cannon on smaller stack with higher odds and win [35-4]
IT we go 4:0 on defense, not too shabby hopefully this will be enough to heal our troops [39-4]
Incas turn up at Leipzig
we get PP next is RP on the way to coal
5. 1530AD
our income shot up and we can now afford 10% lux and 60% science
I hate naval battles, lose caravel to loaded galley, 2nd caravel beats it
there are now 21 units directly next to Duisburg
beat 4 units south of Duisburg
at Cologne beat 2 units [45-4]
whip next cannon there
decide to revolt now to mercantilism
IT we lose a galley to caravel but go 4:0 at Duisburg [49-5]
6. 1535AD
mercantilism is in and research time went up???
there are now 7 units south of Duisburg, we need to clear them which we do without loss
also defeat that caravel that killed a galley
and defeat a knight at Leipzig [58-5]
with more units inside Duisburg, things look slightly better
whip theatre in Villa
IT we go 3:1 on defense in Duisburg, Cologne seems to be totaly neglected as long as the forest tile isn't covered
[61-6]
7. 1540AD
beat 3 units around Duisburg including mace and phant on top of a stack
then 2 cannons come in and defeat 2 units + soften the rest
defeat 1 more unit + 1 at Cologne and at Leipzig
[69-6]
shuttle service between Cologne and Duisburg brings in more units
IT bad round, go 2:2 at Leipzig (ill founded city at this stage IMHO)
lose caravel to 2 galleys after beating one
at Duisburg win 1 battle [73-10]
8. 1545AD
cannons are our friends as we can kill and soften
defeat 3 units at Duisburg, but there is only 1 HA in the forest left [76-10]
IT we lose 2 units at Leipzig, city seems doomed to me for now [76-12]
9. 1550AD
due to added defenses at Duisburg, AI moves towards Cologne again as well, good
with the help of 2 cannons reduce at stack of 7 at Duisburg forest to 1 unit
kill one more south of it, send a knight south to Leipzig to help out
defeat 1 unit next to Cologne and whip a cannon there, keep the whips at this smaller size as it will grow fast
finally battle tally: [84-12]
those stacks are pretty light (inside our borders only 15 units) and I am confident we can retake the forest and defend properly there
cannons really turn the tide and I hope ironclads will do exactly the same
Berlin is churing out caravels and we really need them. Stuttgart will get a drydock in 5 and also needs to go for naval unit
Hanburg is working on a bank since it's our income city.
RP is due in 6 and then we can use the few workers we have to build some lumbermills
steam power after that will take fairly long to research but we need coal badly
ThERat
Deity
in case people worry about Duisburg, there is little need now to do so
this is our stack behind the walls
Roster
ThERat
Greebley - up
T_McC
knupp715
this is our stack behind the walls
Roster
ThERat
Greebley - up
T_McC
knupp715
knupp715
King
Great Set of turns Rat. Things are once again looking up.
I still stand by my decision to found Leipzig though. If I hadn't then the Incas would have moved to Vilicambra and easily taken that city (only 2 Longbowmen defending) because the Incan stack would have gotten to the city before we could have gotten any rienforcements there unless we moved units from Duisburg south to defend. But that would have put Duisburg in danger... I agree it will be a hard city to defend and there is a good chance we might lose it, but it did save us when it was founded.
I still stand by my decision to found Leipzig though. If I hadn't then the Incas would have moved to Vilicambra and easily taken that city (only 2 Longbowmen defending) because the Incan stack would have gotten to the city before we could have gotten any rienforcements there unless we moved units from Duisburg south to defend. But that would have put Duisburg in danger... I agree it will be a hard city to defend and there is a good chance we might lose it, but it did save us when it was founded.
ThERat
Deity
You are most likely right.
Once we secure that forest tile, we can think of going south again, we can easily protect Villa now and then soon send stacks to fend off Inca and defeat them.
Sounds like an exciting round. Good work Rat.
I got it.
I got it.
Turn 340 (1550 AD) (Land: 1-0 Water: 1-0)
Kill the Catapult to take back our Forest square which I put several units.
Rifling is tempting. Perhaps we can get that after Steam. I think Rifles would help a good bit. [Edit: Railroad before Rifling seems better though]
Turn 341 (1555 AD) (Land: 10-0 Water: 1-0)
Attack the stack outside of Cologne to kill XBow, Pike, and 4 Cats. I wanted to get rid of the Cats.
I think I am planning on advancing to the choke. The AI units are fairly light so this is a good opportunity to do so.
Kill an Elephant and XBow in the IBT.
Turn 342 (1560 AD) (Land: 12-0 Water: 1-1)
Continue to push forward killing a Keshik and a Mace. Most workers are now close to the front lines to road as we go.
Lose a Caravel in the IBT.
Turn 343 (1565 AD) (13-1)(Land: 12-0 Water: 2-1)
Win vs a Caravel in the IBT
Turn 344 (1570 AD) (23-2)(Land: 21-0 Water:3-2)
Kill off a stack of 3 Indian Knights and a Catapult.
Kill off a French stack of an Elephant, a XBow and a Catapult.
Kill off a Egyptian stack of a Chariot, and a Catapult. We now control the Southern half of the choke.
We win and lose in 2 Caravel-vs-Caravel battles in the IBT.
Turn 345 (1575 AD) (Land: 28-0 Water: 3-3)
Kill off a Egyptian stack of a Horse, and a Cat.
Kill off a Mongolian stack of a Keshik and a Mace.
Also kill a random XBow and Cat.
We now have serious forces on both squares of the choke. Workers are building the forts. Roads are done.
Liepzig is in trouble again. I send units to the south (some were already on their way) but there is missing road meaning it will be 2 more turns.
Lose a Caravel fight in the IBT. Win a Knight fight with the Incans.
Turn 346 (1580 AD) (Land: 30-2 Water: 4-4)
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts. Steam is next.
Interesting, it appears the AI is turning around rather than going for the units in the forts. I am not entirely suprised. The AI is often more inclined to attack cities than random units, even if those random units are blocking the way to a city.
Liepzig is attacked:
Defeat a Catapult and a knight.
The following fight occurs - rather humorous:
Explorer loses to: Incan Knight (3.50/10)
We then lose our XBow. This leaves a single Knight and a Catapult. Fortunately, I can promote the Knight to get back HP.
We win and lose in 2 Caravel-vs-Caravel battles in the IBT. We can really use those Iron Clads.
Turn 347 (1585 AD) (Land: 31-3 Water: 5-4)
Liepzig attack: We defeat a Knight and then Lose our Knight to a Pikeman.
A pike heading for the town is attacked by a random Longbow which wins.
Liepzig is now safe though as 3 knights move in next turn. We were down to a single Catapult. That explorer saved our butts by being there.
We win one in the never-ending Caravel wars.
Turn 348 (1590 AD) (Land: 32-3 Water: 5-4)
We move in 3 knights. There is a Pikeman still outside the city, but we don't attack it as we only have knights.
In the IBT, the Pike attacks us instead and we win.
Turn 349 (1595 AD)
Incans send a random knight towards Vilcamba.
There is now noone visible at the choke. I suspect we won't see anyone until we pillage/attack an AI (at which point they will send "wave one" of their units.
Turn 350 (1600 AD) (Land: 33-3 Water: 5-4)
Use a Pike to kill the Knight.
Notes:
I would avoid using boats to pillage AI other than the Incan. Lets take out the Incan lands first. I suspect pillaging will cause the AI to react and send his units.
I would however not reduce the forces at the choke (at least not long term). We don't want to have them go below some minimum and have 100 units show up. Weakening the choke further to attack the Incans could be bad for example. I think if the units stay local they could fight a landing near Cologne (for example).
I initially used all the units in the choke. We should replace any units with city defence in the choke and move those units with defense into cities. There may be a few of these - but I am not sure. They may have also moved on to the Incan lands. I should have payed better attention here.
After steam both Railroad and Rifling are excellent techs. Since we now have the Incan lands connected by road, I would go for Railroad and then Rifling next.
Several new units have stayed in the core. The reason of course is that the AI may now start water attacks. Fortunately we get the Ironclads soon
Here is a picture of our forts.
Here is a picture near Liepzig. We may have enough units to consider an attack. I would go for the cities on the northern coast.
Here is the reason for going for the Northern coast first. If we either capture or raze these two cities we can block off a large portion of territory with a few ironclads. This gives us many cities we never have to defend.which in turn allows us more units to attack with.
We also need to block the above square (note it already has 2 Caravels).
Kill the Catapult to take back our Forest square which I put several units.
Rifling is tempting. Perhaps we can get that after Steam. I think Rifles would help a good bit. [Edit: Railroad before Rifling seems better though]
Turn 341 (1555 AD) (Land: 10-0 Water: 1-0)
Attack the stack outside of Cologne to kill XBow, Pike, and 4 Cats. I wanted to get rid of the Cats.
I think I am planning on advancing to the choke. The AI units are fairly light so this is a good opportunity to do so.
Kill an Elephant and XBow in the IBT.
Turn 342 (1560 AD) (Land: 12-0 Water: 1-1)
Continue to push forward killing a Keshik and a Mace. Most workers are now close to the front lines to road as we go.
Lose a Caravel in the IBT.
Turn 343 (1565 AD) (13-1)(Land: 12-0 Water: 2-1)
Win vs a Caravel in the IBT
Turn 344 (1570 AD) (23-2)(Land: 21-0 Water:3-2)
Kill off a stack of 3 Indian Knights and a Catapult.
Kill off a French stack of an Elephant, a XBow and a Catapult.
Kill off a Egyptian stack of a Chariot, and a Catapult. We now control the Southern half of the choke.
We win and lose in 2 Caravel-vs-Caravel battles in the IBT.
Turn 345 (1575 AD) (Land: 28-0 Water: 3-3)
Kill off a Egyptian stack of a Horse, and a Cat.
Kill off a Mongolian stack of a Keshik and a Mace.
Also kill a random XBow and Cat.
We now have serious forces on both squares of the choke. Workers are building the forts. Roads are done.
Liepzig is in trouble again. I send units to the south (some were already on their way) but there is missing road meaning it will be 2 more turns.
Lose a Caravel fight in the IBT. Win a Knight fight with the Incans.
Turn 346 (1580 AD) (Land: 30-2 Water: 4-4)
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts. Steam is next.
Interesting, it appears the AI is turning around rather than going for the units in the forts. I am not entirely suprised. The AI is often more inclined to attack cities than random units, even if those random units are blocking the way to a city.
Liepzig is attacked:
Defeat a Catapult and a knight.
The following fight occurs - rather humorous:
Explorer loses to: Incan Knight (3.50/10)
We then lose our XBow. This leaves a single Knight and a Catapult. Fortunately, I can promote the Knight to get back HP.
We win and lose in 2 Caravel-vs-Caravel battles in the IBT. We can really use those Iron Clads.
Turn 347 (1585 AD) (Land: 31-3 Water: 5-4)
Liepzig attack: We defeat a Knight and then Lose our Knight to a Pikeman.
A pike heading for the town is attacked by a random Longbow which wins.
Liepzig is now safe though as 3 knights move in next turn. We were down to a single Catapult. That explorer saved our butts by being there.
We win one in the never-ending Caravel wars.
Turn 348 (1590 AD) (Land: 32-3 Water: 5-4)
We move in 3 knights. There is a Pikeman still outside the city, but we don't attack it as we only have knights.
In the IBT, the Pike attacks us instead and we win.
Turn 349 (1595 AD)
Incans send a random knight towards Vilcamba.
There is now noone visible at the choke. I suspect we won't see anyone until we pillage/attack an AI (at which point they will send "wave one" of their units.
Turn 350 (1600 AD) (Land: 33-3 Water: 5-4)
Use a Pike to kill the Knight.
Notes:
I would avoid using boats to pillage AI other than the Incan. Lets take out the Incan lands first. I suspect pillaging will cause the AI to react and send his units.
I would however not reduce the forces at the choke (at least not long term). We don't want to have them go below some minimum and have 100 units show up. Weakening the choke further to attack the Incans could be bad for example. I think if the units stay local they could fight a landing near Cologne (for example).
I initially used all the units in the choke. We should replace any units with city defence in the choke and move those units with defense into cities. There may be a few of these - but I am not sure. They may have also moved on to the Incan lands. I should have payed better attention here.
After steam both Railroad and Rifling are excellent techs. Since we now have the Incan lands connected by road, I would go for Railroad and then Rifling next.
Several new units have stayed in the core. The reason of course is that the AI may now start water attacks. Fortunately we get the Ironclads soon
Here is a picture of our forts.
Here is a picture near Liepzig. We may have enough units to consider an attack. I would go for the cities on the northern coast.
Here is the reason for going for the Northern coast first. If we either capture or raze these two cities we can block off a large portion of territory with a few ironclads. This gives us many cities we never have to defend.which in turn allows us more units to attack with.
We also need to block the above square (note it already has 2 Caravels).
One other point. The units in Incan lands are there to cut roads to slow Knights coming from the south. I wasn't planning to attack the city.
knupp715
King
Great set of turns Greebley. Looks like our lands are very secure now.
btw, I don't see the save.
btw, I don't see the save.
I keep having troubles attaching it. Not sure why
ThERat
Deity
GreebleyWe should be able to take Huayna's land soon. I hope with ironclads (strength 12) we will completely own the seas for the time being. We can promote them to faster movement, but we need several of them at key points as outlined.
I think after RR we could also get destroyers/transports without the need for astronomy.
I guess we might need a few more workers now since we can lumbermill and soon RR the land for far more shields.
T_McC is up
DementedAvenger
Prince
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2004
- Messages
- 435
Lurker comment: I started a game like this, always-war prince hub, and instead of using an actual city as a chokepoint, i put units in forests in front of the city, so that no land-based path existed for any of my cities. I didn't have anywhere close to the number of units coming at me that you guys do, and when I checked the worldbuilder, the AI had tons of units just sitting in all their cities.
While looking around in the worldbuilder, I noticed a few AI units had the "attack" script enabled, but I don't think any of them had the "attack city" script. Maybe if the pathing algorithm can't find an open route to a city, it doesn't put units in attack city mode? It'll be interesting to see if the number of AI units sent at your starts to taper off now that you've set up that forward choke.
While looking around in the worldbuilder, I noticed a few AI units had the "attack" script enabled, but I don't think any of them had the "attack city" script. Maybe if the pathing algorithm can't find an open route to a city, it doesn't put units in attack city mode? It'll be interesting to see if the number of AI units sent at your starts to taper off now that you've set up that forward choke.
ThERat
Deity
Actually I think the AI sending unit over is part of the AW fun, this game is fun due to the fact that we really have to fight here at the choke. I prefer that to that hoarding of units by the AI.
We will get issues again once we advance past the choke.
I also think once we take all incan land, the AI will start sending ships over, but by that time we can sink them all using the ironclads
We will get issues again once we advance past the choke.
I also think once we take all incan land, the AI will start sending ships over, but by that time we can sink them all using the ironclads
lurker comment:
Yeah, I had a single choke city that was always on the brink of being overwhelmed until I got grenadiers, then was able to push out and get two fronts going, with three AI's on each side feeding a steady stream of experience to the fresh troops stationed there, who then went on to conquer the fourth spoke once they were sufficiently trained and replaced with new recruits. This also kept the AI is military production mode, neglecting infra.
Yeah, I had a single choke city that was always on the brink of being overwhelmed until I got grenadiers, then was able to push out and get two fronts going, with three AI's on each side feeding a steady stream of experience to the fresh troops stationed there, who then went on to conquer the fourth spoke once they were sufficiently trained and replaced with new recruits. This also kept the AI is military production mode, neglecting infra.
ThERat
Deity
I am worried about this, I rather they burn all their hammers on units, could we maybe open the choke and let them come towards us, now with cannons we should be able to crush them. We can always close the choke, if things get too overwhelming.
The biggest advantage we have in this game is the tech lead.
I think I would rather grab the Incan lands and then worry about the AI. I don't know how much difference a blocked choke makes for the AI, but for us it makes it very hard to do anything with to the Incans with all our units at the choke. I think we gain more than the AI if we keep it closed for a short while and grab their lands.
Besides it would be nice to eliminate the WW we have that is lowering science.
Once we have the Incans under control then we can reopen the choke.
Besides it would be nice to eliminate the WW we have that is lowering science.
Once we have the Incans under control then we can reopen the choke.
lurker comment:
"Besides it would be nice to eliminate the WW we have that is lowering science."
This is a race you'll contend with the rest of the game (eliminating an AI is indeed a big help though). I think I ended up with over 25 base unhappies to contend with by the end, although stubbornly sticking with Representation probably didn't help. It's funny when jails become a priority build in new cities.
"Besides it would be nice to eliminate the WW we have that is lowering science."
This is a race you'll contend with the rest of the game (eliminating an AI is indeed a big help though). I think I ended up with over 25 base unhappies to contend with by the end, although stubbornly sticking with Representation probably didn't help.
It's funny when jails become a priority build in new cities.
ThERat
Deity
I think fighting in your own territory doesn't give any WW, the WW we currently have (2 unhappy faces) are from the war against Inca.
I agree, let's take them out and then open the choke. We can of course also start a razing campaign against France then, since we can easily reach them from our shores.
Techs I would like us to aim for in the near future are:
RR + tech for destroyers/transports
Rifling + Mil Trad
Communism (for state property) and jails
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