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I guess both will take roughly the same time, I think RR takes around 19 turns last time I checked

By the way, I started to shift 1 galley east, i think we should move the second galley also there to be able to transport unit much faster than going round that choke
 
lurker comment: Nationalism allows you to draft unlimited rifles in Cologne, and Constitution allows jails + 3 beakers from each one of your free specialists.
 
Bezhukov said:
lurker comment: Nationalism allows you to draft unlimited rifles in Cologne, and Constitution allows jails + 3 beakers from each one of your free specialists.
Hmm... Interestsing points to consider. I tend to not think about drafting. We would have to switch civic types and I don't recall offhand what we end up losing because of it.
 
of course we cannot draft unlimited since we lose population. I also don't know what is best, but I think nationalism -> Mil Trad for now seems good.
 
lurker comment: TMcC can do the math, but Cologne would probably grow every other turn at least, especially if helped along via irrigation, etc.. So two turn rifles (in addition to what it's already producing; at least), and +2 happies from barracks. The alternatives are vassalage, bureaucracy, and free speech, all good too, but maybe not THAT good.
 
ThERat said:
I also don't know what is best, but I think nationalism -> Mil Trad for now seems good.

:agree: We should also think about building the Taj Mahal which I highly recommend we do.

How soon do we get our next GP? We should be able to trip a GA with the next one, unless it's an Engineer and we want a free wonder.

A great idea could be to coordinate the Taj Mahal build with the birth of the third great person. A double golden age could be just what we need to boost us up to the road of victory.


Bezhukov said:
lurker comment: TMcC can do the math, but Cologne would probably grow every other turn at least, especially if helped along via irrigation, etc.. So two turn rifles (in addition to what it's already producing; at least), and +2 happies from barracks. The alternatives are vassalage, bureaucracy, and free speech, all good too, but maybe not THAT good.

I switch to this civic (for some reason I cannot for the life of me remember what it is called!) a lot for the drafting and happiness, and with the drafting potential of Cologne I think we should definitely take advantage of this civic.

Edit:
Posts: 4,000
Congratulations Rat :p
 
OK, as far as civics go:

In Government, we're not really using Hereditary Rule in our core. Most cities only have 1-2 MP, so that could be replaced by the happiness from Barracks if/when we adopt Nationhood (Legal Civic). Police State (Fascism) will be useful late, when we're pushing for Domination and are fighting on multiple fronts. Representation (Constitution) would be useful until then, netting us more bang from each specialist, reducing civics cost, and adding some happiness to a few cities. We will need to research Constitution to get to Democracy ...

In Legal we'll either be in Beauracracy or Nationhood for the rest of the game. In Nationhood we lose the 50% commerce and production bonuses in Berlin, gain some happiness in other cities (pseudo-WW fighting) and the ability to draft. We might as well assume we will only be drafting from Cologne, but can likely do at least 2 units every 5 turns there. The unhappiness is probably going to be too much to handle in other places to draft the max # of units each round. (One question: If we still only require 1 body/unit, drafting is really powerful on Epic speed.)

In Labor, Slavery is fine until we are forced into Emancipation (Democracy). Nothing else is useful

In Economy we will eventually adopt State Property (Communism) and lose our free specialists. The extra food from Workshops/Watermills should add shields and trade to our cities, in addition to losing the distance maintenance costs. Right now we probably get more out of Mercantilism, but once we have to take over a third leg of the map distance maintenance should be significant.

I think we would only leave Theocracy for Organized Religion.

So I think Nationalism before Rails as it may allow us to put 10% less into lux tax until the Incans are eliminated, and should allow Cologne to almost single-handedly supply the defense forces for the Incan territory through drafted/produced Rifles.
 
Went for Nationalism, Music (in one turn) and then Mil Tradition.

Lost more units than I should have. I wasn't playing great. The idea was to wear down the Incan units, but my stacks were not strong enough and some units were lost.

However, now the Incans should be much easier pickings. They have 4 towns left. One town that we are next to has 3 protectors. So far I have yet to see a musket in any Incan town or in the French towns, so those two civs do not yet have gunpowder.

We Captured Machu Picchu in 1686.

We also got a Scientist so I started the golden age. For this reason I did not change civics. It also will allow us to get Taj Mahal in 12 so we will get a second golden age around 3 turns after this one ends.

TMcC, I did not MM for the golden age. Feel free to do so.

We have 3 Grenadier and 2 cannon outside the next Incan city. Given that it has 3 defenders it will probably fall within a turn or two. The Ironclads near there are bombarding.

A pair of Ironclads also got sent around to circle the lands. All Ironclads has taken the +1 movement since 2 is really slow.

GOMAW_AD1690.jpg
 
Really straightforward turnset ...

Someone really likes the whip, Cologne is down to size 6. It'll grow back during my round.

MM to get income to 36 gpt and speed growth in a few places. Unlikely we'll get more than two Incan cities this round, and even that may be a stretch.

1692 AD (1)
Ironclads really have a neat bombardment animation.

1694 AD (2)
Capture Tiawanku, the holy city of Judaism. :)

1696 AD (3)
The Incans are getting spunky, they've got three Muskets out on the prowl.
...

1708 AD (9)
And then we capture Cuzco at the cost of a City Raider II Cannon. We now control the obsolete Chichen Itza.

Final Notes:
We lost 2 units that round, the suicide Cannon and a Caravel. The Ironclads have been clearing out the backlog of French Caravels, mostly. We can't get our Ironclads over into Egyptian waters due to large cultural boundaries, but the naval front is about to permanently move S of Duisberg.

Next player should be able to capture Huamanga on the next turn and eliminate the Incans during their turnset. Another GA will start in two turns. We're researching Rails and have a stack of workers fortified in our core with nothing useful to do. Once Berlin completes its Bank and West Point we can consider revolting into Nationhood, but probably not until we have something else we'd like to revolt into also. Since it appears State Property is a ways off, it could be useful to crack the whip at Cuzco to build a Court and the FP. We also do not want to research Sci Method until we have a couple of Jewish Monasteries built. Might as well use the Shrine we captured. :)

Lux tax is up to 30% for the balance of the Incan war, which should be ~7-8 turns. There is a city in the fog in the SE that we couldn't see from the ocean, but the Incans are completely out of gas.

I guess the next stop is France, but Egypt is a little closer to where our troops currently are.

newfrontiers2hs.jpg
 

Attachments

great progress, I can see from the screenshot that we will get wines and sugar (more happy people)
I think we should raze that town in the fog, it doesn't look valuable, or at least we relocate it 2 tiles north to the coast.

I guess it has to be France we attack next since we can't reach Egypt so easily.

But, once we settle a city in France, hell will break loose. All the units the enemy has started to store up will be coming at us. We may want to found a city there to absorb all those units and then use that breather to push our front at the connecting center to be able to control the chokes.
 
Actually the only new lux we get from the Incans are Spices. We already have Sugar. Spices are one of the lux that don't get doubled by any building, but they do add a Health with Grocers.

I think we'll also gain Sheep, but we're not hurting for Health.

If we are convinced that we are going to France next, we may want to pull an Ironclad or two out of the southern region and push them north of Cologne. I actually think a heavy French attack on a city we found in their territory may be a good thing, seeing as how we'll be defending with Rifles and they won't have anything better than attack 9. :) We just have to be careful to bring 4-5 Rifles to settle, and maybe make it a point to settle on a Hill. I think there is a coastal Hill in the vicinity of the French city we burned a while ago.

It may be a better idea to try to bring many Galleys full of troops towards the neck of the French territory and start at a choke city. I'm sort of torn here: The blockade we set up likely has the AI in possession of many obsolete troops. Any city we found/capture that they can reach is going to open the floodgates from all civs, and I'm not sure what would be the better play: Give them a far-away target, knowing that other civs will get in the way of subsequent attacks on French cities (and likely giving the other AI multiple targets), or starting with a French choke city, giving a single target for the other AI.

Or, the most subversive thing of all: Open the blockade before we head for French territory and let the other AI come try to attack Cologne and Duisberg. This likely requires us to attack all of the AI troops in the field outside one of the fortifications, but could serve as a sufficient misdirection to allow a smooth capture of the first few French cities. Rifles and Cavs should shred anything the AI can send at us.

I'm thinking funnel the AI to Duisberg where City Garrison Rifles will be waiting, along with a Machine Gun or two. This should so violently outclass the AI troops that even with Catapult support they won't be able to do any real damage. This basically counts on the AI not being able to change troop directions unless the intended path is blocked ... in other words, get the AI troops marching to their death at Duisberg and they won't be able to adjust and re-target any French cities we capture.
 
lurker comment:

Constitution offers another nice civic; one that could significantly reduce that 21 turn research time on rails. Oh, and jails too.
 


We could settle on this hill for a staging point to start the war with France.

I still don't know if we should go to war with France or Egypt. I highly suggest finding out which territory has more resources that we don't have via exploration with some clads. I don't see any reason to attack one more than another other than the fact the one may have more valuable terrain and resources. What do you all think?

Taj Mahal will be done in two turns, another Golden Age will help us get an even greater lead. I may just open one side of the choke to see what units get thrown at us, but close the choke before they can get through. We could even attack them to lesser the units that will go after our next war staging city.

I've got the save and will play tomorrow. I would play right now, but I just got done playing MP and am still in my "Multiplayer Mode" and I don't want to make any :smoke: decisions.
 
knupp715 said:
We could settle on this hill for a staging point to start the war with France ...
I would aim more south. I think the tile SW of the Longbow in your picture is also a hill and would put a metal and a Sheep resource behind the city, so it could use those tiles. Not sure whether that is a legal spot to settle, though, and would come with a significant level of cultural pressure.

knupp715 said:
I still don't know if we should go to war with France or Egypt. I highly suggest finding out which territory has more resources that we don't have via exploration with some clads. I don't see any reason to attack one more than another other than the fact the one may have more valuable terrain and resources.
Not sure how far the clads can see, but the primary reason for attacking the French is that I'm not entirely sure we can send our troops to Egypt via the seas. We know we can reach France since we've done it already.

knupp715 said:
I may just open one side of the choke to see what units get thrown at us, but close the choke before they can get through. We could even attack them to lesser the units that will go after our next war staging city.
I think we can burn a lot of AI shields by opening the blockade with Rifles behind it, and Cannons and Grenadiers in front of it. Not sure how well an open-and-close strategy would work, although making the AI run around in circles can't be a bad thing. I suspect once we plant a city in French territory and close the choke the AI units aren't going to re-target our core.
 
(1) Take Huamanga but lose a grenedier that was attacking at 85% odds. Bad luck.

(2) Taj Mahal



(3) Raze the city in the east because I agree with Rat, that city is crappy and the only resource it is getting is sheep. I don't agree though that the city should go two tiles north, then it will be extremely crowded with Cuzco and Tiwanaku. I suggest one tile north-east, that way the city won't be stealing any resources from any other city but it will be getting sheep and fish.



We also discover this turn some bad news, Egypt has clads!!!

IBT: Our weakened clad gets killed by Egypt's clad.

(4) Take Ollayontamboliasjfkdla;afdahsj-whatever it's called.

(5) I opened one side of the choke last turn and a lot of units are showing up.

(6) Kill about 20 units with only 2 losses and close the choke up again in order to heal.



IBT: To my great suprise, the AI actually attacks the choke. We kill 7 of their units and luckily with no losses even though they had 3 suicide cats (1 withdrew).

(7) Attacking out of the choke killing more and more AI units.

(8) I found Dresden. I was going to wait for team imput and leave the settler fortified but I can see no better place to put the city. Please feel free yell at me if I was pre-mature with my decision and made a mistake in the city placement. :)



(9)


I think I may have played ten when I was only supposed to play 9 (because I played 11 my last turnset) and I forgot the number. I'm not sure though. Next player will probably want to even the number out because I think I may have screwed it all up :lol:
 




As you can see we rule all of the Incan lands :)

Now for my beautiful paintwork...below shows our armies, we need to do some more upgrades IMO before taking on France. And yes, now I do agree we take on France as I saw they had silk and there land looks better than Egypt.



I suggest switching to Nationhood sometime soon, Cologne will be able to pump out a lot of units.

Hamburg should build Iron works and Munich should build Oxford University. Neither have been started yet but that is what those two cities next builds should be.

Also, be careful opening up the choke, I don't think we have the numbers to defend. If the entire AI stack that attacked during the 6 IBT all attacked, I would have lost that side of the choke, most of our units there were wounded.

Now for some questions. Is there a bug when taking pictures of when you capture a city??? I lost all my SS's of cities being captured.
Secondly, why is it that when I go into the city screen every city has a specialist? Every time I tried to take a specialist off and try to work a tile the specialist would turn back on. Is this some kind of bug? Remember, this is in every city and the governor isn't on. In one city there is actually a citizen specialist and I can't fire him!!!

And the save:
 
:smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

I just realized a :smoke: move I did. Luxury tax is still on 30% even though we aren't at war with Incas! SORRY! :smoke:

@Greebley, would you like me to include the date in my saves in all the games that I am in with you, or just the games where you are after me in the roster?
 
Firstly, yes, major weed on the lux tax. Six turns of 30% (or maybe 20%) excess lux is a lot of money during a GA. But that's water under the bridge and isn't going to effect this game a bit.

The specialists are because we are in Mercantilism. They don't eat and are free, thus you can't fire them.

The city placement was fine. The only other candidate would have been the desert tile 2 south of where the city went, but if there's no seafood there it would have been a worse spot.

Not sure about putting the Ironworks in Hamburg. We know we want Wall Street there, and as such should have it configured for max commerce. I would consider Cuzco (after the FP) since it should have 20 land tiles to itself and we could configure it for max production. The city should still be around size 12, so it's a perfectly viable location to build stuff now.

You should always include the date on saves in SGs.
 
Firstly, yes, major weed on the lux tax. Six turns of 30% (or maybe 20%) excess lux is a lot of money during a GA. But that's water under the bridge and isn't going to effect this game a bit.

:smoke:

The specialists are because we are in Mercantilism. They don't eat and are free, thus you can't fire them.

I see, I never knew this. I am definitely learning a ton from this SG.

Not sure about putting the Ironworks in Hamburg. We know we want Wall Street there, and as such should have it configured for max commerce. I would consider Cuzco (after the FP) since it should have 20 land tiles to itself and we could configure it for max production. The city should still be around size 12, so it's a perfectly viable location to build stuff now.

This slipped past me. I only looked at the Domestic Screen to see which city had the most hammers. I can't remember if Hamburg is qued up to build Ironworks or not, but I am positive no sheilds have been put in it. Next player should switch the build if we decide not to build it there.

You should always include the date on saves in SGs.

I don't want to sound noobish or anything but why is this? I don't include the dates in my saves so it saves room and I don't have 20 saves all from one game.
 
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