Grumpy Old Men AWP Hub

[Greebley]

I played to 300 AD to round off the turns.

I switched to the oracle got the chop and we built it.

I also wouldn't have built the Great Lighthouse, but we have enough shields in it so I continue it after finishing the Oracle.

I am building settlers and another worker. I think we should lay down 2-3 more towns soonish, though more military after the current settler makes sense - I would especially build 2 more spears.

I sent out some pillagers. They will be shown in the screen shot. They may be strong enough to keep one of our enemies from ever growing strong. We will see. I am not sure who we are going to pillage.

We won all the fights fairly easily.

 

[Greebley]

Almost forgot the most important part. With the Oracle there were 2 techs that were double the shields of metal casting - philosophy and civil service. I ended up going for civil service as it gave us both Macemen early as well as the ability to chain farms - always a step forward on growth

 

[ThERat]

it's great that we got civil service as a free tech. Maces can help us a lot. I would actually build some galleys for defense and also to send some of them over for pillage and destroy missions. The less enemies we face the better.

Roster
ThERat
grs
Greebley
T_McC - up
knupp715

 

[T_McC]

I may be able to get to this tonight.

I assume I'm playing however many I feel like?

I think the primary benefit of Civil Service is Beauracracy, haven't looked at the save to see if we've switched yet. Maces require Machinery as well as Civil Service.

Kind of think pillaging is a fool's errand on this map due to how far we likely have to walk to find anyone. But those guys can at least be pests to a civ likely to send Galleys towards us.

Thinking about it some more: The Great Lighthouse and the Colossus should have similar impacts on our cities. When we get large enough to work 4 water tiles, the trade routes will likely be worth 2 gpt. If we could work 6, then maybe the internal trade routes will bump to 3 gpt. I was advocating the Colossus due to our having the price-halving resource. May still build it anyway.

 

[T_McC]

300 AD (0)
OK. We've built zero workers since my last round, but there are two in progress. One priority is to get a road built to the choke. Another is to occupy the forest next to the city. That's why we founded in that space. Could get a little dicey if the Egyptians have good pRNG luck as the War Chariots are a tough match-up for Archers.

We also need a Galley or two to get the Incan boat out of our waters. One is in transit and I may interrupt the Great Lighthouse build to get another out of Berlin. Two Galleys should be able to block the Incans from taking the short route to our shores.

We seem to be falling into a trap that I often fall into in solo games. To the best of my knowledge, Barracks do not speed healing. Whip the Rax at the choke, and will probably whip again during my round for a Galley to start the blockade on that front. This city will really only ever produce stuff via the whip, but might as well make the 4-XP troops when the whip cracks.

We caught a break with the Confucian holy city. I'll definitely use the GP on the shrine, and probably backtrack to Monotheism to get another good civic.

Rearrange a few tiles to get 4 extra trade, to no visible impact on the ETA of Math or the gpt.

Move a Warrior that had been camped out for ~600 years, and confirm there is no additional seafood on our W coast.

<Return>

310 AD (1)
There are enough shields on the whip that Cologne can complete a Spear in two, so it will. Horse Archer promoted to Combat II takes our first War Chariot with 0.9 Health remaining. Scored enough XP for another promotion.

320 AD (2)
War Chariot retreats from Spear, and runs like a scalded dog. We're not going to be able to give chase, nor build a road on that side of the city.

330 AD (3)
Complete 4-XP Spear at the choke, and move him into the forest. Start Workboat to make recovery from the next couple of whips more tolerable.

Our pillaging party will encounter a Barbarian city before an Incan city, but whatever.

340 AD (4)
With a settler due soon, I have to check my own dotmap.

Whip a Galley at Berlin, so we should definitely off the Incan galley next turn. Pushed the Great Lighthouse off by about 3 turns in doing so.

350 AD (5)
Math in, head for Polytheism.

We now have two Galleys stacked for ridding our waters of the Incan Galley.

Our pillaging stack arrives at Incan city 1 turn too late to consider razing it, as reinforcements are on the way.

360 AD (6)
We complete the Great Lighthouse, start on a workboat. Incan Galley runs N. You go boy!

The reinforcements do not go into the Incan city. Decisions, decisions ... I move onto mined hill to think about it another turn.

Great Prophet born and runs to Hamburg.

370 AD (7)
Kong Miao built. First Incan galley offed, spot second Incan galley approaching from the south.

Found Essen W of Berlin. Starts on Workboat.

Get first 9 gold from pillaging in Incan territory.

380 AD (8)
Munich already catches Confucianism.

Hattie is having a good time with her troops. She had a couple of War Chariots just standing in the Ice while the injured War Chariot healed in a different group. When the injured Chariot healed, then both groups moved.

Ahh, have to get back to pillaging in the Incan territory. This time we got a cottage for 15 gold.

400 AD (10)
Essen catches Confucianism. Hattie appears to be afraid to leave her Archer in striking distance. There are a few Incan Axes on their way, ETA is ~18 turns.

We've found Cuzco and are in the process of pillaging a bunch of farms. Need to find the Copper/Iron source besides the one that was undeveloped by the first Incan city.

The second Incan Galley is heading for the location where our Fishing nets would be, if we had completed the Workboat. Tell me the AI doesn't know that.

410 AD (11)
Nothing much exciting.

420 AD (12)
Our entire pillaging force gets wiped out at the Incan capital. Guess I didn't pay enough attention to what units were in the city. At least our economy is improved.

Monotheism comes in and I revolt us to Organized Religion, since all of our northern cities have Confucianism, and we will be looking to build some infra fairly soon. Despite this I have started two settlers. One is intended for the Cow site in the N, and the other for the Wines site in the S. We can use the extra happy from the Wines as I don't want to expire Stonehenge yet. As such, we are researching Monarchy.

450 AD (15)
Move all units and hand off. We only were attacked 3 times at the choke this round, with two wins and a draw.

Final Notes:
Two settlers in production. The archer in the N is standing on the tile I think we want to settle on. In the S there is an Archer in the general vicinity. We want the coastal desert tile that can claim the Wines. We'll still have a lookout Archer to play with in that area. I think we'll also have to build more workers after these two settlers, before we build any more settlers.

There is a forest chop at Essen that will come in the turn after the Workboat. My thoughts were a Galley next.

At the choke we now have plenty of units. The Incan Galley might attack next turn, or it might not. Regardless I would whip the Galley in Cologne. That city will be whip central for us this game.

Hamburg is building a Missionary. Not using the Org. Rel bonus, so vetoable. I just thought we would be well served to get Confucianism to the choke city sooner rather than later to amplify the effect of whips towards buildings, and to give the extra happies needed to mitigate the whip effect. Once we research Calender for the Sugar, we should be prepared to build Missionaries to generate culture in new cities. Net gain of 2 Happies in each new city for 50 shields.

Certainly appears that we will have to attack the Incans first. We don't seem to have a close neighbor going CCW, hence the lack of action. It would be a tremendous hike to go anywhere other than the Incan lands. We'll go faster by boat than foot, so another reason for building lots of Galleys.

The whip in Berlin wears off in 4 turns. We are 1st in GNP and Mfg Goods, and 6th in Soldiers.

 

[grs]

Glad we built The Great Lighthouse. It is an excellent wonder on such a coast heavy map, since it boosts our early research tremendously. Metal casting would have allowed us to build our cheap forges - despite the (until now) easy game - I'd say, we should play our traits.

 

[T_McC]

We're currently researching Monarchy because we are at our happy limit in two of our three core cities, and Berlin isn't very far behind. Hereditary Rule/Wines gives us two more happies in each of these cities even if we don't build any additional MP.

After that our choices are Construction, Metal Casting, Calendar, Theology or Currency. We shouldn't have a pressing need for Sugar and don't particularly want to expire Stonehenge, so Calender can wait. An extra trade route would be nice, but it'll only be worth 1 gpt/city so Currency can wait. Theocracy would be interesting so we could build doubly-promoted units, but I think that too can wait. I would suggest we research Metal Casting --> Construction --> Machinery. Build our Forges while waiting for Construction, then build a couple of Elephants and a couple of Cats while waiting for Machinery, then build some Maces. Then we drop 5-6 Galleys worth of troops on the NE part of the Incan lands.

Not much of that benefits from OR, but it isn't costing us much and not having the need to build a Monastery to build Missionaries is worth something too.

 

[Greebley]

300 AD (0)
Our entire pillaging force gets wiped out at the Incan capital.

I have noticed that moving next to a city with troops will often cause the AI to react. I think a good policy when pillaging is to avoid going next to major cities (unless the pillaging force is strong enough). It also follows that it might sometimes be worth delaying an assault on a city to step onto a forest next to a city as you are most likely to get attacked when you move next to the city

in any case, I bet one can manipulate the AI into attacking into unfavorable terrain. I have noticed this in some of my games.

 

[ThERat]

I playtested some similar scenario a little. Some of my observations that might help us here a bit:

the AI will throw TONS of units at the choke if they can't send units via the sea. This has several implications:
- we need to make sure we have a good naval block
- get a castle (it comes with engineering) for added defense, maybe even chichen itza
- good defenders are a must in that choke, and amazingly crossbows rock. I got a crossbow up to 120exp points with the right promotions, that guy killed entire stacks alone
- defense will absorb all the hammers from the AI, then send out some stacks to take out enemy cities to weaken them and get additional income

I agree with the research path, metal and then machinery (for the above mentioned crossbow + maces).


I also have to support Greebleys observations. Putting a stack directly next to a city will make the AI kill it. So, please do avoid that. We can send over stacks that hide in forest and then get the AI to attack and die.

 

[ThERat]

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ThERat
grs
Greebley
T_McC
knupp715 - up

 

[Bezhukov]

If you want to gain an appreciation for xbows, play the Japanese. They shut you down.

 

[knupp715]

Got The Save

 

[T_McC]

Well, the stack got whacked on the third turn we were adjacent to the Inca Capital. What was different was that we were no longer across the river. If I had it all to do over again I would have went another tile south before crossing the river as I have to believe part of the AI calculation to attack is based on whether the unit can retreat back into the city after combat. Had I placed the stack 2 tiles from the capital on the same side of the river I suspect it would not have been attacked.

The naval blockade is going to be more difficult than I first thought, since there is a more than 1-tile spot to block off our SE coast. I think our first Incan target should be their city on the E coast. If we knocked that out they should have a much longer sail to get to our shores. Of course we'd be giving them a target they could walk to, so probably irrelevant.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

lurker's comment: very entertaining guys.

We seem to be falling into a trap that I often fall into in solo games. To the best of my knowledge, Barracks do not speed healing.

IIRC, cities and medics speed healing; anyone know if a medic in city speeds it up?

Two settlers in production. The archer in the N is standing on the tile I think we want to settle on. In the S there is an Archer in the general vicinity. We want the coastal desert tile that can claim the Wines. We'll still have a lookout Archer to play with in that area. I think we'll also have to build more workers after these two settlers, before we build any more settlers.

The lurkers humbly beseach thee for more pictures.

 

[knupp715]

(0) I whip the galley at Cologne, and press enter.

(1) Cologne builds the whipped galley and starts a spear to help gaurd agains Hatty's chariots. Essen builds a workboat and starts on a galley. We are going to need galleys in the north as well as south, in case we are being attacked from both and cannot reach the canal city (cologne) in time.

Hatty's two chariots retreat northeast onto a hill, probably awaiting rienforcements from Egypt. An incan spear and archer appear in the south. They could be loaded onto the nearby galley! Good things we can make a blockade with our galleys.



(2) A galley that we couldn't see last turn, appears out of nowhere carrying an axeman and a spearman.



Don't know if any of you guys noticed this, but our "naval blockade" plan that was supposed to stop Incan ships from dropping of units into our territory has just been foiled.



The discovery of this channel is going to make naval superiority that much harder.

Two incan axemen and an archer appear from the south.

(3) An Incan galley foolishly attacks our blockade and loses, while the other galley drops off it's passengers onto our soil.




I have a sacrificial archer up there to prevent the units from pillaging the quarry and the road, or attacking the city. He shall be honored upon his death.

As you can also see, I attempted a naval blockade on that evil galley that delivered those units over here. We are very lucky though. If Huayna had sent that galley up north, the axe and spear could have very well captured a city (our capital) and pillaged the fishing net up there.

(4) We meet Julius this turn and.......you'll never guess.........keep thinking...........war is declared!!!

Our sacrificial archer gets attacked by the axe, wounding him, but more importantly seperating it from the spear making both units vulnerable. Our axe is promoted and attacks the spear and...WHAT!!!...LOSES!!! Bad RNG there, we had good chances with that fight. No matter, our city garrison archer attacks and wins the battle unscathed. Then our Horse Archer attacks the wounded axe and wins, without recieving a scratch. Workers our set to rebuild the marble quarry that the Incan spearman pillaged.

Berlin builds a settler and starts training a Horse Archer. Hatty's War Chariots join Huayna's Stack.

(5) Hamburg builds a Confucian Missionary which is sent to Cologne, and starts building a Horse Archer.

IBT: The Incan army (5 units) attacks Cologne and is destroyed except for a spearmen, which instead of attacking, withdraws without a fight. There were no losses for the German nation. There may have been however, if Hatty's war chariots attacked with the Incan stack, but they withdrew with the spear, too scared to go into battle.

(6) Monarchy is done researching and Metal Casting is started to follow the suggested Research Path.

Munich builds a settler. The city is at it's happiness limit so I start it on a Confucian temple (big mistake but I'll say more on that later). Cologne builds a spear and starts on another galley which gets whipped. Dortmund founded and starts on a workboat.

(7) Essen builds a galley and starts on a barracks. Stuttgart is founded in the north and starts constructing a granary. I whip the galley at Cologne. Berlin finishes training of a horse archer which will go north to kill a stray barb archer near Hamburg. Berlin starts building a library, but keep in mind it should build a galley sometime to defend those clam-nets from being ripped up by an Incan Galley. Cologne builds a galley and starts building a library. The city has also discovered a new religion, Confucianism, which was spread around the city by an elderly and very short missionary, who says he was born in Hamburg.

IBT: Our naval blockade (shown above) is attacked from the south, killing our galley, and letting the northern galley escape to the free seas. The stray archer near Hamburg attacks our horse archer and loses.

(8) Our galley beats the wounded Incan galley that attacked us last turn.

Also I realize a mistake. Before, I started building a Confucian Temple at Munich because we were at our happiness limit. Of course I never realized that that same turn we had researched Monarchy, allowing us to revolt to Hereditary Rule, increasing happiness. I left the build going though, as we will probably need it in the future.

(9) Hatty's two War Chariots come out of hiding, for obvious reasons. Another 3 have been spotted to the west.

(10)

Overview and Save Coming...

 

[knupp715]

Overview: We have 2 galleys chasing an Incan galley away (they could possibly make a blockade in that channel).



Hatty could attack on the IBT of the next person's turn..... We should be able to handle an invasion from her though.



And Stats:

 

[knupp715]

I didn't focus on infrastructure during my turn-set, which could have been a mistake. I suggest building infrastructure for a while (barracks, granaries, libraries, and then forges when we get metal casting). We may want to have Berlin build the Colossus which I think is a good idea.

Then when construction comes along, Phants and cats and launch an attack on the Incas. Until then we should focus on defense, especially the navy. The AI would rather send 5 boatfulls of units to crappy defended cities than send them all to the choke point. We need to control the seas, lest a disaster happen (which could have happened if Huayna sent that galley north).

We have 3 cities which aren't part of the Confucianism faith, we may want to build a few missionaries to fix that.

Good Luck and the save:

 

[ThERat]

things are getting more exciting now...will play tonight

A few things I suggest:

2 galleys should be enough to block the passage, of course a back up galley would always be handy.

The galley we chase will attack any galley that is it's path, do we have a galley near Berlin? If not, I will build one.

I found that troop transport galleys do not attack but simply attempt to drop their load, so if their passge is blocked, they will simply turn around.

We do need more units in Cologne to fight off the enemy there, if we have enough units to withhold attacks promotions will make this city very strong. We might want to get a castle with engineering later on and maybe build Chichen Itza (gives 25% defense to any city).

I would suggest also to defend for now and once we have maces, collect a few and drop them in Inca land to disturb them.

 

[knupp715]

No, we don't have a galley near Berlin. I was going to build one before the library, but decided we need to get some infrastructure and libraries up in order to keep up with the AI's research.

As far as navy blockades go: As long as we are blocking the channel and the other path (south of Cologne) then we shouldn't need a galley gaurding the clams (near Berlin or anywhere else) until caravels come into the picture. I also think it is important to get another galley in the north. We only have 1 up there and the AI could destroy it easily with a group of 2.

 

[knupp715]

DUN DUN!



DUN DUN!!!



NAH-NAH NAH-NAH NAH-NAH NAH-NAH NAH-NAH NAH-NAH NAAAAAAA!!!!!

Some more Seafood Shots:





BTW: All those screenshots are taken from this SG: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157868

Just thought I would bring some laughter in the thread. I posted these in the Funny ScreenShot thread. All the screenshots were taken from this game while I was expirimenting with Flying Camera Mode.