Guide to Spaceship Victory (SSV)

[VoiceOfUnreason]

It seems to me, that you are advocating SSV only if one can get a big enough empire. What would be the advantage with going for a SSV instead of a domination?

I had that question earlier - looking at the competitions that Duckweed linked, it appears that one of the answers is "points" -- specifically, riding the scoring points from research to a Big Score[tm].

 

[Bebekija]

I had that question earlier - looking at the competitions that Duckweed linked, it appears that one of the answers is "points" -- specifically, riding the scoring points from research to a Big Score[tm].

I'd say its the other way around :
- You want the fastest space victory possible
- You need 10000+ beakers per turn to research every modern tech in 1-2 turns
- Since there's only so much commerce a single city can provide, and so many research multipliers one can build, you need a huge empire with lots of citizens to reach that research power.

=> You do win SSV early, with a huge land area, massive population, the entire tech tree researched, hence the Big Score

~~~~

Thx for this guide, Duckweed.
Actually, I have been waiting for this since I read your report on BOTM 37 a year ago....

A few questions :
- I remember spending quite some time examining your final saves for BOTM 29 and 37, but there's only so much you can extract from the game log after ~300 turns, especially about the early game, which is most crucial.
So I was wondering if you had kept some intermediate saves for these games, and if yes, if you could maybe share them with us. It would be great for practicing.

- This is related to the above, but +1 to VoU's request for *approximate* guidelines for the REXing pace.
I know that it's too map/leader dependent for you to give precise dates, but knowing if one should target 6, 8 or 10 cities by 500BC for instance, could give us an idea of what it would take.
Specifically, I know I've never been able to reproduce your REXing in BOTM37, so I must not whip hard enough, or something....

- You didn't talk much about vassaling.
Should one take any opportunity to vassal their opponent and then get started on the next one, eventually using them for tech trades? The thing is, for them to actually be helpful would require to leave them with most of their cities, so that's less land for yourself...
Or is it better to conquer them entirely for a bigger domestic empire, just leaving vassals enough not to trigger the domination limit?

- I'd indeed appreciate if you could elaborate on the renaissance/industrial eras wonders worth going for.

- That's all, for now....

 

[Duckweed]

It seems to me, that you are advocating SSV only if one can get a big enough empire.
What would be the advantage with going for a SSV instead of a domination?

I have allways seen SSV as the last option, if you can't kill a pesky opponent, you have to launch for space.

If your goal is just winning the game, then yes, there are better ways. It's well know that AP is the easiest way to pull a victory in all aspects, however it's not in everyone's book. Before I laid my hands on GOTMs and SGTOMs, all my games were domination related victories, and in fact, if you can pull domination/conquest win, you can win with any victory.

As the topic says, it's a guild for SSV, and the fastest way to achieve it. Different types of victory required certain skills if you want to be the fastest.

 

[Duckweed]

@kossin

EP is for weaker's choice, in most of the games, except CH, you will never want to build other EP buildings. I tried to steal a medieval tech from Toku in BOTM37 and that's all.

@VoiceOfUnreason

It mostly depends on how much space for you to settle peacefully. You can take a look at the mini report I wrote in the final spoiler of BOTM37, where I settled 11 cities in own island ~1AD.

 

[Duckweed]

You sure love that Deities in calamity ones...I remember that one you gave to me long time ago...
The only problem is this is the only example where it is true deity (starting with two cities) where the risk is lower to see the worst. And the true deity game (DIE) starts with dogs, which is much of a warrant of survival...

The two others are in-between immortal and deity. Without chariots, I find really hard to control two cities at once with warriors.

In general, on deity, worker stealing is not advisable, right?

Anyways, thanks for those links and to indirectly confirm too much free workers is bad (I forgot that one at the first read long time ago).


Now, I lurk again. Too much spamming in your thread.

DIE is one of the most difficult games I have played, warmonger sandwich map, especially without strong start, is the hardest setting.

You are right, deity is not a level for rushing if you don't have special early UU or easy access to strategic resources. That's why many people fell upset when he/she is DOWed by AIs. Most times you have to play cowardly!

 

[Duckweed]

A few questions :
- I remember spending quite some time examining your final saves for BOTM 29 and 37, but there's only so much you can extract from the game log after ~300 turns, especially about the early game, which is most crucial.
So I was wondering if you had kept some intermediate saves for these games, and if yes, if you could maybe share them with us. It would be great for practicing.

In fact, I talked a lot about opening in the guild, yes, the general rules only. What you need is to apply those rules for specific game. The way to do it is opening a game and replay it several times to T100 until you feel very very good about the result. In some of my previous games in S&T, I also wrote reports in details about opening and some immediate saves as well. Honestly, SGOTMs are the best place to see the most detailed play as well as the reasons behind those movements. I can't play better than SGOTMs since that's the optimal results from careful tests. If you read all our SGOTMs, you can easily find that we did very different in each game.

- This is related to the above, but +1 to VoU's request for *approximate* guidelines for the REXing pace.
I know that it's too map/leader dependent for you to give precise dates, but knowing if one should target 6, 8 or 10 cities by 500BC for instance, could give us an idea of what it would take.
Specifically, I know I've never been able to reproduce your REXing in BOTM37, so I must not whip hard enough, or something....

It depends. Even given enough spaces, as you already mentioned, the resources (Food/commerce/production/Forests) and leader trait have big impact on the paces. I BOTM37 I got 11 cities by 1 AD, but in BOTM29, I got ~15 cities in the same time. As I mentioned in the REXing part, try your best for pumping settlers, workers are far less important in some cases.

- You didn't talk much about vassaling.
Should one take any opportunity to vassal their opponent and then get started on the next one, eventually using them for tech trades? The thing is, for them to actually be helpful would require to leave them with most of their cities, so that's less land for yourself...
Or is it better to conquer them entirely for a bigger domestic empire, just leaving vassals enough not to trigger the domination limit?

Take the good cities (wonder/Shine/great tiles) from AIs and then vassal them immediately, be careful also to take some cities that will causing revolt in the future.

- I'd indeed appreciate if you could elaborate on the renaissance/industrial eras wonders worth going for.

Will do so when I have time.