Happiness and avoiding civil disorder?

[Deadeye]

Civil disorder sucks. It sucks big time.
Building temples and the WoW that counts as a cathedral in every city helps, but those aren't always available.
I've tried using Entertainers and usually remove the least productive citizens to Entertain, but then the city is eating at a deficit and then the food box is empty and famine is feared...it's a vicious circle.

I usually build a temple and a granary in each of my cities at the least, and perhaps a harbor or something like that to increase production where appropriate.
I don't do much trading, except perhaps to help build Wonders.
I usually have one or two fortified defensive unit in each city, which takes care of most AI attacks on the cities themselves, since the AI usually only attacks with one units and barbarian units suck no matter what the unit is.
I hardly ever go to war with the AI because they aren't that much of problem and its annoying to deal with the unhappiness from the military units.
In the early game I have 5 or more settlers put roads and irrigation down around the first cities and then take the best city sites a bit farther away.

I usually a a Super Science City with the Colossus, Copernicus's Observatory, Newton's College, and a University. This lets me get techs every 7 turns or so.
I try and keep my taxes above my costs and science as high as possible, I hardly ever put texes in luxuries.
For governments, I usually stay with Monarchy until I get to Republic but the defensive units in my cities really drain shields from production. If I have two defensives in every city, thats a pretty big total loss, so I switch to Fundamentalism as soon as I can to stop the riots and such.

What I'm asking for here, is there anything I'm obviously doing wrong?

 

[duke o' york]

Just so that we can help you, what level are you playing on? I ask because on the higher levels, you will automatically have an unhappy citizen in your city when the population reaches a certain amount (lower levels for higher difficulties). You therefore must anticipate the arrival of this unhappy person and either put in extra troops for martial law or build appropriate improvements to make the unhappy people content. On Deity, many people swear by the Hanging Gardens to control early unhappiness and contribute to later WLTDs. Bear in mind too that in the representative governments (Republic and Democracy) the people are made happier by extra trade in their city so building a bank in a democratic government can often have the same effect as building a cathedral.

 

[Deadeye]

Currently I'm playing on Warlord and may move up to the next difficulty (whatever its called).

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by Deadeye


I usually build a temple and a granary in each of my cities at the least,


I don't do much trading, except perhaps to help build Wonders.

I try and keep my taxes above my costs and science as high as possible, I hardly ever put texes in luxuries.

Just a few thoughts - taken from your first post.

Granaries are nice, but some find that happiness issues can arise from growth that happens too quickly. Plus, the shields used to create them can outweigh their usefulness. If you really, really like them, then perhaps you could concentrate on getting the Pyramids wonder instead of all the shields needed to build individual granaries.

Trading is huge - for all aspects of your game. Some reasons:

- As duke mentioned, extra trade can lead directly to happiness in some forms of government.
- More trade arrows will mean greater money from taxes and better science research overall.
- One-time bonuses for trading can supplement cash and science.

Just those last two lead directly to the third point I have. With greater science and taxes, it can allow you to put some of your resources into luxuries - if you wish - with minimal ill effects. I think that at warlord and prince, however, you'll find that with lots of good trade from trade routes that you can effectively run your government with minimal luxuries anyway - even in a Republic or Democracy.

Try it out in a few games. Go right for trade and start building and delivering caravans as soon as you can. Then keep building them at times during the whole rest of the game. The effects are well worth the effort.

Enjoy!

 

[Marlos]

If you REALLY hate civil disorder (and it sounds like you do), then play around with Fundamentalism. No one is ever unhappy there, but you have a serious science problem. Another option is Communism. In either case, though, you will have a problem with enemy civs bribing your units.

My preferred form of government is Democracy so I get used to managing civil disorder. If you're trying to play Democracy (or Republic), set your luxuries no lower than 40%. You really have no choice. Michelangelo's is excellent, Women's Suffrage is a must. Hanging Gardens is a good early-game option.

Some other little tricks:
Build fortresses. Troops stationed in a fortress do not cause unhappiness. :soldier:
Build caravans/freight. Extra trade will appease your citizens.
Build marketplace/banks/stock exchanges. Same reason.

 

[Deadeye]

It's not Civil Disorder, its also the unhappiness in general.
I have built Marketplaces, Stock Exchanges, and Banks in my latest game as the Persians, and done some trading between my six cities and it has gone well. I noticed a reaction when I built banks and stock exchanges.
Thanks for the help!

 

[ferenginar]

If you are really annoyed with unhappiness then there are two numbers in the rules.txt that you should edit, each is dependant on the difficulty level, but if you change the base value then all level are affected. One is the city size before disorder the second is the number of cities you can have before the next automatically goes into disorder.

This is cheating, and you should only do it, if you cannot get the previously mentioned methods to work and wish to practice the tactics wiothout your government collapsing every few turns.

good civving

ferenginar

 

[floppa21]

All above is good info, but don't EVER build granaries!! OR Pyramids!!! WASTE OF TIME!!! Seriously, if you crank luxuries for a few turns, you can bump the pop of each city one point per turn, saves on production and maintenance costs.

And caravans are huge for success, they are for me and I play Prince. King still pounds me... If you get Hanging Gardens, Mike's Chapel, temples in all cities with coloseums and aqueducts, you can WLTPD all the cities to 12 and the drop luxuries to 0% and your cities will be fine unless you have a lot of units out in the field... I don't use much in the way of units, one per city for defense and the rest is settlers... As long as the city doesn't riot, let em be unhappy.

 

[Marlos]

Originally posted by floppa21
As long as the city doesn't riot, let em be unhappy.

Actually, you've hit on one of the real tricks to the game here! The idea is BALANCE. It isn't easy all of the time, but you must address your military needs :soldier: , your science needs :grad: , and your citizenry simultaneously.

Then, do all of this fighting a two-front war and continuing to expand! This is what makes the game so great!

 

[starlifter]

by Marcos:

My preferred form of government is Democracy so I get used to managing civil disorder.

LOL, I think you mean maintaining happiness. If you have disorder in your Democracy, you must like pain!

If you're trying to play Democracy (or Republic), set your luxuries no lower than 40%.

Absolutely. Republics and early Democracies get 40% as a minimum baseline. This assumes one wished to take advantage of the most powerful effect in Civ II: the WLT_ days (celebrating and growing by one citizen each turn).

After a few turns, the growth will more than fund the initial "losses" by setting 40% instead of 10 or 20%.

Michelangelo's is excellent,

Essential. The killer wonder of the game for any large empire. Followed by JS Bach. These two are probably worth more than all the rest combined in most PD games.

Some other little tricks:
Build fortresses. Troops stationed in a fortress do not cause unhappiness.

Only only only if the fortress is within 3 tiles of one of your cities. At 4 tiles or more away, there is no effect on happiness.

by Floppa21:

All above is good info, but don't EVER build granaries!! OR Pyramids!!! WASTE OF TIME!!!

Sorry Floppa, but you really do want the Pyramids (which you can capture, of course) or granaries for certain mid and late game stuff that can be done with the food reserve. Food=flexability, particulary for "push time" and engineer swapping.

Of course, the only absolutely indespensible wonder in a full game is Apollo, so you can get by without the Pyramids, but the Pyramids will definitely accelerate your game, and even make a mid-length Monarchy the approximate equal of an early Republic.

By Floppa21:

And caravans are huge for success, they are for me and I play Prince. King still pounds me..

Ahhh..... I see. Hey dude, lets get you up to Emperor and Diety. I remember talking with you last Fall.... Enough of the Prince . Trust in the advice you're reading from the long-time civers, and take the plunge... since you're already using Republic/Democracy, it won't be hard. Start your next private game at Emperor, and keep a close eye on happiness and you're probably there.

PS, some of the strategies you're using will go out the window at higher levels, like 0% Lux at size 12 in a Democracy.

 

[starlifter]

Kev and Duke have lots of good advice! To push one aspect a little further, I don't find happiness to be an issue with the Pyramids. Grow grow grow. I will use the #4 citizen as an Elvis in a sprawling early game Monarchy, and when it pops to #5, you're really in business. You may not be able to use all citizens on the terrain, but with #5, I will use two taxmen instead of one Elvis. At push time, they can be scientists. In general, I have two rules in Monarchy: #1, Luxuries are locked to zero (there is a trade exception is some games, though), and #2 I don't use Elvii in cities of size 5 and large. Irrigation and Taxmen/Scientists instead. This keeps efficiency up, and minimizes the gap with an early Republic... plus can help fund early game bribes (or science). But the key is Pyramids. The time and 60 shields are a real killer in early game. Well, even in late game, lol. Plus the 1g per turn early game support. Pyramids are very very important, and I will fight an early game war over them. When using 2 or 3 taxemen, the Pyramids can keep growth going, or in extreme cases, allow a deficit to run until Republic or Democracy.

BTW, look at Duke's point about revenue improvements.... if you are allocating Luxuries with the slider, build a Market or Bank or both before a Colosseum (or the Cathedral that Duke mentions).... at least you get a return on your money, and don't need to pay the steep 4g per turn.

Normally, at Diety, you don't need a Colosseum until your Democratic city reaches size 14 or so, assuming MC and JSB, plus Temple and Bank.

Well that's my early game thoughts on Happiness .

 

[floppa21]

So you're saying skip King and go straight to Emporer??? Well, in Deity, you can't possibly win tech race without spies, correct? I only use spies as protection against tech theft and to pick up NONE units... My whole tactics would need a major rehaul... Haven't played in a couple weeks, maybe I try it tonight...

Starlifter, you said 4th citizen will be a tax guy? I thought we couldn't change any citizen to a specialty unless the city was at least a size 5? Or is that dependent upon level?

 

[starlifter]

So you're saying skip King and go straight to Emporer??? Well, in Deity, you can't possibly win tech race without spies, correct? I only use spies as protection against tech theft and to pick up NONE units... My whole tactics would need a major rehaul... Haven't played in a couple weeks, maybe I try it tonight...

I would (did), and that was still with lots of misperceptions and no one to talk to about how to play (I had not dicovered Civ 2 internet sites yet). Don't jump in to a Democracy.... play the level at Monarchy ----> Commie/Fundy a few times first. You need not complete every game; the best learning curve is through about midgame, say Auto or so.

Don't worry so much about tactics, as just getting the feel of the happiness and gameflow. Hang out at the bottom of the tech tree (Monothiesm, Theology, Democracy (to build th SoL and switch into early Communism or early Fundy ASAP and solve the happiness that will have caused your sprawling monarchy to come to a halt by cities of size 6 or 7 or so).

Plan on the AI beating you to a lot of early and Mid game wonders. It will. Get MC and JSB and the SoL, and you will be set. If you can't get a SSC built at first, don't worry about that either... the AI often beats you to Copernicus at first.

You'll actually develop your own individual style to crush the AI at Deity, and will find ideas and hints and tips from players that work for you, and some that you may not like....

But my main reason for suggesting a higher level is I know you've been playing and know the fundamentals, and can come to the Forums if you have a question about something from the CFCers. And the gameplay is indeed different at different levels. Assuming most people would eventually like to play and beat Diety (not necessarily a good assumption, as the other levels can also be fun and challenging), but if so, then IMHO the way to do it is to learn the fundamentals at whatever level, then jump in.... otherwise, some of those things that you learn will work great at Prince ot King will not work at Deity, which is fist-poundingly frustrating (to me)... you have to "unlearn" somemthing, and then still pay the piper and learn something new at Deity.

Starlifter, you said 4th citizen will be a tax guy? I thought we couldn't change any citizen to a specialty unless the city was at least a size 5? Or is that dependent upon level?

Sorry, my post may have been confusing. At Deity, since I won't pay luxuries in a Monarchy, the 4th citizen is probably not going to be usable on terrain in a big empire (happiness). But since you cannot even try him out as a Taxman or Scientist until the city has 5 or more citizens, the only real choice is to let him (or her!) be an entertainer.

When the city pops to size 5, you can sometimes use the last citizen as Tax or Sci, instead of Elvis.

And no, those rules are the same at all levels... you need 5 citizens before you can have Tax/Sci.

At deity, if you want a sprawling empire, then you have to worry about happiness all the time, until some time in late Midgame. If you ignore the bottom of the tech tree, like you can at lower difficulty levels, Deity will be totally frustrating, and you'll start thinking you should not be playing it.

When you first start Deity, there is no reason you can't use the GL. It's not necessary to incorporate all the finesse and "the GL and Great Wall are useless" stuff at first. A lot of the posts myself and others make have an implied caveat: there's not one single "right" way to play, and people should take ideas and just try them, and keep what they like .

I played for a long time by getting Literacy, and letting the GL keep me up on the more militant techs, esp. the Nav branch, while I concentrated on getting MC and JSB. The GL route is a good one to start out with to get the "feel" and pace of Deity (the AI is going to be researching and growing and building faster at Deity or Emperor than you are used to).

I remember almost pulling teeth when showing some family and friends how to play, hehe. For instance my dad (who is not good at computers but smart tactically and strategically) insisted on playing each level in succession, when I knew he could darned sure have skipped the mid levels. But each person should do what makes them happy, not me LOL . He's now a brutal early conquerer (no regard for rep) and rarely a Capitalist.

 

[floppa21]

So I started a King level game. Fortunately (in my mind) I started on a medium/small island... I have my base of 7 cities, I got the Colossus, Hanging Gardens, biuilding Marco Polo right now, got some caravans on their way to delivery destination... It's already in the AD years... City rebelled at 4 citizens so I HAD to add luxury for a few turns until HG was finished but my cost at that point was like 2 for 2 temples I had so no prob... I know the turns will slow down later in terms of years per, but good god... As for tech, I went as well as I could to get Mon, Pottery obviously... I have roads just about finished to connect all my cities together, have NOT irrigated a single freakin square for fear of growth... I put all the people I can on forest for shield production. Most food growth I have in any city is 2 or maybe 3... Wow... I have a warrior in each city, temples next. Caravans, marketplaces, libraries, caravans... I think someone's gonna show up anytime now with Crusaders and "rid the world of my worthless civilization"... I don't even know why I am building Marco Polo, I have no tech to offer most likely (maybe I surprise myself there) and I could try for maps but most likely they tell me my map is useless. Not true, it shows my cities and easy path to destroying me!

I think what you said about playing to mid game is right on though... I'll learn more each time, and my tactics will HAVE to change on the way... I feel so inadequate at this stage og the King game...