Harbors? Terrible?

[Simplicity4]

People on this forum seem to love harbors. For the life of me, I cannot understand why. 3 maintenance/turn? And you might get two hammers out of it? 3 gold/turn is a LOT of gold. Plus you have to spend time building the harbor in the first place, which wastes hammers in and of itself.

I could see scenarios like Archipelago or on an island without any other productive sources where this would be useful. But in general, I'd almost never build them in my coastal cities.

In G+K, Carthage gets free harbors in coastal cities. I almost wonder if this would wind up being a penalty due to the prohibitive cost of keeping so many harbors around...

 

[janboruta]

You build harbors to connect trade routes to coastal cities without the need to build a road. Useful on most maps where distance between cities is greater than 6 tiles. And essential on Archipelago. As simple as that.

 

[CoolLizy]

They're also very useful if you have three or so sea resources in range; more so when doubled up with a seaport.

 

[chazzycat]

both posters above are correct. They obviously pay for themself if they form a trade route, and I'd rather have production than gold as well, for the most part.

not a high priority for 1-2 sea resources in a city that has road trade route, but for 3-5 resources, or needs trade route, hell yeah. Fish are so good in this game it's worth trying to get as many in one city as possible.

 

[PhilBowles]

People on this forum seem to love harbors. For the life of me, I cannot understand why. 3 maintenance/turn? And you might get two hammers out of it? 3 gold/turn is a LOT of gold. Plus you have to spend time building the harbor in the first place, which wastes hammers in and of itself.

3 gold is only three road tiles - and cities have to be at least 4 apart. So the trade route is cheaper than it would be by road (mostly even with the Commerce policy that reduces road costs). I always forget about harbors, and usually regret having 10-tile roads all over the place...

 

[Resident Mario]

On the other hand, building Harbors uses up your city's production, as opposed to (usually expendable) worker labor.

But that's a small caveat, as a handful of GPT is usually better then whatever a city can do with those hammers.

 

[Civologist]

My favorite part about harbors is when I research railroad and my trade network now provides a hammer multiplier in every city with a harbor without having to throw down 2gpt improvements between cities. Talk about saving time and money.

 

[casusbelli]

Civologist: I thought production boost from railroads only applies to cities connected through, um, actual railroads. I'll be sure to check that out in my next game. But yes, this trumps any other advantage of harbors in my opinion. The production boost is priceless and I usually beeline to railroad just to see the surge in Manufacturing in my InfoAddict curves...

 

[janboruta]

Every coastal city with a trade route via harbour get the production bonus if one of the harbours is connected to the capital by railroad, and that's immediate. You can then connect some other inland cities by rail with the "receiving" harbour and they also get the bonus, so the whole empire can benefit

 

[The_Quasar]

People on this forum seem to love harbors. For the life of me, I cannot understand why. 3 maintenance/turn? And you might get two hammers out of it? 3 gold/turn is a LOT of gold. Plus you have to spend time building the harbor in the first place, which wastes hammers in and of itself.

I could see scenarios like Archipelago or on an island without any other productive sources where this would be useful. But in general, I'd almost never build them in my coastal cities.

In G+K, Carthage gets free harbors in coastal cities. I almost wonder if this would wind up being a penalty due to the prohibitive cost of keeping so many harbors around...

The Harbour is one of the strongest buildings in the game. The benefits from having harbours in the late game are usually huge!

I think Carthage will be a VERY strong civ, especially on water maps, as the time and hammers saved by not having to build harbours will add up quickly.

 

[eris]

My rule of thumb is to consider two harbors as equal to 6 tiles of road. If I can't connect a new city site in less than 6 or 7 tiles of road, I plan for it to be connected by harbor somehow. Maximizing the usefulness of harbors through resources and such then becomes a second goal.

 

[BobDole]

If there's at least 2 sea resources, I always consider it. If there's more, then it's a must-build. Especially since it allows Seaports, which are even more awesome. Between Lighthouses, Harbors, Seaports, and Techs, you can get some crazy yields out of your fishing boat tiles.

 

[CoolLizy]

Between Lighthouses, Harbors, Seaports, and Techs, you can get some crazy yields out of your fishing boat tiles.

No kidding. If I'm lucky enough to get a good location, my coastal towns can easily be more valuable and useful than my capital, especially by the late game.

 

[warlordtheft]

I tend to need the roads/railroads anyway when fighting on the 2 continent maps. Mostly for troop movements.

 

[TheHanzou]

The buildings are good, its the sea tiles that suck. Unless you can get a lot of special ressources a coastal city is pretty bad.

what can u get out of a normal sea tile? 2 Food 1 Gold, with a lighthouse? I dont think it goes beyond that. On a grassland u can get up to 4 food, up to 4 Hammers on a mine etc. And that doesnt even require buildings. They should allow work boats on normal sea tiles later in the game. Coastal cities are more of a liability than an asset. you usually only build one to (most of the time) buy ships or get a trade route.

In reality for a city to be coastal is a huge advantage.

 

[Zaimejs]

I made the mistake of automating my worker on an archipelago. The idiot built roads even after my cities were connected by harbors.

Does the capital need a harbor first in order for other cities to connect?

 

[Optional]

Does the capital need a harbor first in order for other cities to connect?

No, if it's connected with a town with a harbour (obviously one of your own) you're good. It sometimes lasts a turn before the trade network icon appears.

I would love harbours to come a little bit earlier in the tech path, that's a weakness of harbours; they come when you would normally have connected everything already.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think Harbours shoudl be used if the capital is unable to cnnect normally via road, i.e sperate islands.

 

[chazzycat]

The buildings are good, its the sea tiles that suck. Unless you can get a lot of special ressources a coastal city is pretty bad.

what can u get out of a normal sea tile? 2 Food 1 Gold, with a lighthouse? I dont think it goes beyond that. On a grassland u can get up to 4 food, up to 4 Hammers on a mine etc. And that doesnt even require buildings. They should allow work boats on normal sea tiles later in the game. Coastal cities are more of a liability than an asset. you usually only build one to (most of the time) buy ships or get a trade route.

In reality for a city to be coastal is a huge advantage.

tis true, normal sea tiles are pretty weak. But it's not uncommon to find good city sites with 3 or more fish, thats how you get the nice productive coastal cities.

 

[CoolLizy]

Indeed, just plopping down a settler anywhere on the coast doesn't make it a good city, even in real life.