Hardest CIV and UHVs

[Zhuge_Liang]

I just want to know....

What the hardest CIV on RFC? UHV?

-REPLY-

 

[Corm]

Mali cause it hasnt been done yet or Mongolia.

 

[Tboy]

I'd say either Mali or Mongolia. After that comes Inca and India, pretty tough but possible (at least the latter is).

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

I completed them both with worldbuilder and mali, really completed it.

 

[Theodorick]

I completed them both with worldbuilder and mali, really completed it.

Why are you bragging about completing a UHV with worldbuilder?

 

[onedreamer]

Mali cause it hasnt been done yet or Mongolia.

They aren't hard CIVs, they are hard UHVs.
Hard Civs are IMO the south americans, egypt and babylon if you are unprepared to what will happen. With pre-knowledge you can make the right choices to survive till the end of the game.

 

[jprc]

According to what I tried.
I finished about 19 games, and started perhaps 50, using all available civilizations ... Which means that I was quickly crushed (or without ANY hope of surviving) 60% of the time!!! and I am optimistic...
I play always at Monarch level.

Of course, this ranking is according to my feelings and game style (I am more a builder than a warlord), etc... and can be totally different for someone else!!!!

%UHV : % for having the game offering you a decent chance for winning a Unique Historical Victory
% Classic: chance for reaching a regular victory (ex.: space, points...) in RFC, NOT in Beyond The Sword, and IF you do not go first for a UHV (most UHV targets are NOT compatible with other victory types)

%UHV - %CLASSIC - CIVILIZATION - OBS.
5 10 Aztecs A spear against a Sherman?… 3rd UHV impossible
10 20 Mali No water in the desert… money creates jealousy
10 35 Maya Kukulkan…
15 40 Arabia 40% Islam when most borders are always closed?...
20 25 Vikings Largest European powers at your door step
20 25 Ethiopia Barbarians + Europeans: good luck
20 30 Carthage Surrounded by sharks - must expand too quickly
25 35 India Jungle - plague vs UHV - 5 religions out of 7 !!!??
25 35 Khmer Jungle – late development (biology)
25 60 Russia General Winter – but Mongolia is a pain in the neck
30 10 Inca Alone in the dark and alone at war against Europe…
30 30 Persia Must go at war too early - unstable
30 45 Turkey Too many big wars
35 30 Egypt Arabia + Ethiopia + vertical expansion
35 45 Greece Tec race and building cap. difficult for UHV
40 50 France Depends on Germany + Rome + North America
40 50 England/Britain If can colonize north America – expansive expansion
45 25 Babylonia Can UHV if not destroyed before…
50 45 Spain War war war in the Americas – move your capital!
50 25 Mongolia Don’t expand, destroy – civ version of Pacman
50 45 Portugal No war – choose well your religion
50 70 Rome Early power - can crush Germany
55 50 China Resources for cultural and tech victory - not for late war
55 80 America Easy defense - huge resources - Irak style strategy
60 75 Germany Late power if develop well before
65 15 Netherlands Small and locked by powers- time is for money not war
65 70 Japan Easy defense - can use Chinese collapse

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

Why are you bragging about completing a UHV with worldbuilder?

DUH theodorick! Try to be frustrated a billion times. Still continue: you're addicted, use worldbuilder: Smart but underserving.

In mongolia, civil war broke my empire . Khyber pass is the route of east asian conquerors to ME and europe but all mountains? Impossible in a short time unless..... Blitzkrieg promotion is as early as this time.

Mali, first time I used a world builder but after ten mins. I got bored. I spent about a week to finish this CIV without WB. Deserts right? Well, my new plan is that in the rivers build farms to supprt growth and in the very deserts, build cottages to have money. This is just an alternative strategy. I never tested this although I finished Mali...... I used other strategy.

I doubt this next plan will work...... Use timbuktu as a military base and build units to conquer arabia and pillage them(haven't tried this one). The two other cities are for money. If this second plan work, tell me. Of coarse, you have to develop your cultural borders too.

 

[wr4th]

dude, what are you talking about?
first you can't irrigate the rivers until you have biology in rfc.
second you can never build cottages in the desert.
third timbuktu is maybe the worst production city ever, only tiles with 1 hammer, maybe 2 on the gold if you build it south, plus you don't even have iron unless you settle at the casablanca spot.
So please think before you post your so called strategies.

Oh and in the other thread you said you reached the first uhv with more than 4k gold while france had 3.8k. So tell me please how to do this without WB? I think around 2.5k is the best one can reach without teching at all.

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

ya, know it. Timbuktu is the best of the worst spots ever.

 

[jprc]

(...)So please think before you post your so called strategies. (...).

Relax WR4TH...
You are doing a direct attack... It is better to explain quietly. And anyone has the right to think and say what she/he thinks without fearing direct critiques... Otherwise where is freedom of speech?
Anyone is welcome to expose his feelings as long as it does not directly hurt some else feelings, don't you think so?
Think as a forum as a brainstorming: ideas are proposed, and counter ideas presented.
Zhuge_Liang is thinking about a strategy, and as it seems that you are a civ expert, bring your advises in a positive and friendly way.

Mali is an impossible civlization.
You can specialize your city for producing merchants and save the 1100+ gold produce by "great" trade, but reaching 20 000 is a dream (or nightmare). Richer you are. more civilizations around will ask you for money (like in real life...), and as you have to say no, you will quickly create a network of angry civs. As you do not have military strength for saying "no" for too long, it makes an almost impossible equation.
Twice I reached 2 UHV conditions, but in 1700 I was always far far from the 20K. I tink the best I did was about 9.5K, on the verge of collapsing because I was selling all my resources and only building "money": my 5 or 6 cities were low in happiness and health. No libraries, only markets, grocers and forges. Minimum of buildings for reducing corruption. Of course: courthouse everywhere. Culture and science provided only by religions (temple / monasteries).
In fact, I found very boring the gameplay: you just hit "enter" turn after turn as you try to accumulate with a minimum of production and units (too costly!). No fun if you are a builder (like me) or a warlord as both are forbidden to you.
As an Asian Zhuge Liang, you should try the Chineses (beware of the colapse) or better: the japanese (for me, the easiest on RFC 3000). It is much less frustrating!

 

[wr4th]

Sorry if that sounded to harsh, but he states things that are definately not possible and one would notice if you only play it once. On the other hands he claims to have fullfilled the possibly hardest uhv around. Sounds just strange to me.

The closest i could get was with BtS 3.13. No teching at all and mostly wealth after whipping markets, 2 settlers and some defensive units. Around 2.5k at 1300AD, 5k at 1500 and 12.5k at 1700. With the new uhv of 16k it might be possible with some tweaking and less plagues (i had two).

 

[jprc]

Yes, I just see that patch 3.13 has lower requirements: 5000 is now 4000, and 20000 for final gold is 16000.
Even like this, it not an easy goal, by far. I play at monarch, I don't want to think how it is at emperor!!...
Talking about plagues... as you have to maintain many trade agreements, you always get plague at full pace!! As if life was not hard enough for Mali!.
Perhaps the solution is to play the tough civs at viceroy ...
There is a "walkthrough" at http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-malinese-strategy for Mali though.

 

[Úmarth]

You are doing a direct attack... It is better to explain quietly. And anyone has the right to think and say what she/he thinks without fearing direct criticisms... Otherwise where is freedom of speech?

Stifling 'direct criticism' in the name of freedom of speech? Riiiight.

 

[jprc]

Úmarth, english is not my language. "critique" is something negative in my mind as for me it is not encouraging or friendly. An observation, a rectification, a comment is constructive, but a direct attack on some one is not, and wr4th apologized as a gentleman he certainly is.
Freedom of speech is not the right to hurt a person's feeling, but the right to present his own idea. Freedom of speech is about respect of any one's freedom.
I am sure you agree. Don't you?
As all this is off-topic, umatrh, you are welcome to present your ideas about the thread.

 

[sennomulo]

A "Criticism" is something distinct from a "critique", which I think is a better translation for "uma crítica". A critique is always an attempt to attack an idea, but criticism can be just an analysis of somebody's claims. I don't know what the Portuguese word for that would be.

 

[jprc]

A "Criticism" is something distinct from a "critique", which I think is a better translation for "uma crítica". A critique is always an attempt to attack an idea, but criticism can be just an analysis of somebody's claims. I don't know what the Portuguese word for that would be.

Excellent! You found the right words for both languages.
I have then edited my former post accordingly.
French and Portuguese use only 1 word (uma crítica / une critique) and, except if you add something like "litteraire" after, it is always negative. Words (in French) "commentaire" or "observation" or "contre-analyse" or "contre-proposition" (etc) would be positive equivalents then to "critic/critique".

But this is not important. What is important is to have Zhuge_Liang
feeling comfortable with all his ideas. And I worship Voltaire...

Ah!... my signature is just a summary of all the misunderstandings on this planet...

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

chance to complete Mali are 1/100. Try.

to wr4th:
relax...... It's just a strategy. Devise other ones if you like.

No worries. I can start a thread on strategy on Mali. Post it there.

 

[Zhuge_Liang]

Mali thread open. Who wants to post first?

 

[Squirrelloid]

According to what I tried.
I finished about 19 games, and started perhaps 50, using all available civilizations ... Which means that I was quickly crushed (or without ANY hope of surviving) 60% of the time!!! and I am optimistic...
I play always at Monarch level.

Of course, this ranking is according to my feelings and game style (I am more a builder than a warlord), etc... and can be totally different for someone else!!!!

%UHV : % for having the game offering you a decent chance for winning a Unique Historical Victory
% Classic: chance for reaching a regular victory (ex.: space, points...) in RFC, NOT in Beyond The Sword, and IF you do not go first for a UHV (most UHV targets are NOT compatible with other victory types)

%UHV - %CLASSIC - CIVILIZATION - OBS.
20 30 Carthage Surrounded by sharks - must expand too quickly

Carthage is remarkably easy so long as you keep your eye on the prize. You don't need more than 5 cities, and these should be Qart-Hardesh (sp?), Athenai, Jerusalem (however its spelled at the time), Barca, and next to the 2 dye north of Jerusalem. Your first settler build Q-H, your second should go with your military to crush the coastal cities in the holy land - you'll raze sur and rebuild on the hill north of it (it'll be too small to take). You'll need to take or raze Babylon, so get some catapults (athens is a good building city). Otherwise focus on economy and hire mercenaries for your dirty work - you get them cheap, and dead mercenaries require no money. Athens should also build a settler for Barca. That's 2/3 UHV goals, and once you've dealt with Babylon you can tech like a bandit for Optics. I finished around 860AD on my first try.

25 35 Khmer Jungle – late development (biology)

Most of that jungle is Calendar resources - developing them will clear the jungle pre-biology. So don't sweat the small stuff. You'll need to Caste System 3 GAs to get the culture, but you have plenty of time. (If you can get music first you can have all 3 by 1300 easily, 150 years early, even if you pop a non-GA first. In fact, i popped a GE first, and used him to go into a golden age, which helped immensely with generating 3 GAs - one from each of 3 cities). I founded Angkor, Singapur, and Hriji...something or other (north of where Hanoi would be) and captured Pagan and the southernmost "chinese" city (its either Guangzhou or Huangzhou i think) - they were all easily 11+ by 1450, despite a plague in the meantime.

The only reason i haven't actually completed this one is because i got bored with the 30% buddhism part. (And distracted by that stupid sacred sea quest - which i now think is impossible in RFC since you need biology to chop jungle so you can build on 85% of those islands).

30 30 Persia Must go at war too early - unstable

... This one was pretty easy, and "too early" is a big stretch. Heck, i screwed up and tried to attack greece by land (letting them move all those frickin phalanxes into athenai) instead of by galley to catch them with their good units on the marble. ah well. Yeah, aggress early and often, but you get +2 stability per conquest. Just make sure you whack Babylon first. And you won't have to expand beyond your historical boundaries really, so your stability should be fine. Just happily accede to the arab demands when they spawn - you won't care anymore at that point.

35 45 Greece Tec race and building cap. difficult for UHV

... This is the easiest UHV ever. Seriously, don't build settlers. You've got an amazing production/research city, and a UHV that can be done OCC style. Grab the required wonders first, then grab the great lighthouse, great library, leaning tower, etc... Whip infrastructure when convenient - the overflow will help your wonder mongering. You'll be teching like a bandit, and you can use the excessive number of GP you'll be generating to lightbulb stuff if you need to. After grabbing philosophy, beeline optics and sail away. Just make sure to adopt monarchy or you'll never keep your people happy.

I could probably comment on some of the other ones, but these struck me as in no way hard to UHV. The only one of those 4 that involves any luck is Greece, for whom the Oracle needs to not have been completed when you start.