Harry Potter all over again...

Originally posted by puglover
If you mean Devil, yes he is the devil. I hate him so much, I use pictures of him for target practice with my dad's pistol. (with his permission and supervision of course! :))

You are a disturbed little child. :p
I'm going to have to enlarge that doggy picture for some target practice with MY pistol. :yeah:
What is your argument that he is the Devil, he asks, realizing that this could swiftly descend from the sublime to the ridiculous?
 
How dare you talk that way about MY CUTE LITTLE DOGGIE!!!!!!



Anyway God says sorcery is wrong. Here it is in mathmatical format...

Bible = sorcery is wrong
Therefore... Sorcery = wrong
HP = Sorcerer
Therefore... HP = wrong



BTW,
I drew a target of HP.
I didn't use posters or enlarged internet images
Therefore you will have to DRAW a picture of my dog. But don't anyway.
 
Ren, Pillager: call me nuts if you will: but i used to say the same thing and now I read through four books in four evenings.....
 
Originally posted by puglover
Anyway God says sorcery is wrong. Here it is in mathmatical format...

Bible = sorcery is wrong
Therefore... Sorcery = wrong
HP = Sorcerer
Therefore... HP = wrong

You realize that Harry Potter is fictional right? He's not real ...
 
I think puglover is '' thsi close to trolling ;)


you got the logic wrong:

bible says: earth 400 years old. this wrong

therefore: bible = wrong
(bible = sorcery is wrong)= wrong
...
...
HP = wrong(wrong) --> right!
 
The Bible does not necessarily say that. Where does it say that? I don't want to start a religous debate. That's just what I believe. And yes I know HP is not real.
 
Haha, good one Killer. That got the spammer shut! :D
 
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
What is your argument that he is the Devil, he asks, realizing that this could swiftly descend from the sublime to the ridiculous?

See "God"? He totally asked for it? Spam eh?


That kept the spammer shut

First of all he asked for it (see above). Second, it didn't keep me shut. (look back a couple posts)
 
Originally posted by puglover
How dare you talk that way about MY CUTE LITTLE DOGGIE!!!!!!



Anyway God says sorcery is wrong. Here it is in mathmatical format...

Bible = sorcery is wrong
Therefore... Sorcery = wrong
HP = Sorcerer
Therefore... HP = wrong



BTW,
I drew a target of HP.
I didn't use posters or enlarged internet images
Therefore you will have to DRAW a picture of my dog. But don't anyway.

The Bible says many things, as the word of God, and I happen to believe them. I am against real life Satanism, sorcery, witchcraft. But a simplistic mathematical formula is no basis for yer vitriol.

But it is a book. A clear fiction. A fantasy novel. Not real.
Some may argue that it influences children to go into the occult, but there is no evidence on that matter. They may play games pretending to be Harry Potter or wizards in the playground, but that is vastly different to conducting a black mass and slaughtering a pug in the name of the Dark One.
The Bible and God do not teach people to be slavishly ignorant, but to be as smart and cunning as serpents, and thus, have some ability of discernment.

If you are into condemning 'sorcery' and magic in books, then chuck the Chronicles of Narnia, the Lord of the Rings and countless other books on the pyre. They have something about magic in them, so they must be evil, even though the authors were strong Christians in many cases.
Condemn all the fairy stories, folktales and mythology in the world, and shoot at it as target practice. Le Morte D'Arthur? Get on the truck.
Cinderella? You're nicked! Disneyland? Shut it down.

Furthermore, obey all the strictures of Leviticus, et al. Don't go near unclean women at certain times of month, cast those with leprosy from your camp and make them wear "torn clothes and let the hair of his head be disheveled; and shall he cover his upper lip and cry out, 'Unclean, unclean.'"
Remember not to sow your fields with two kinds of seed, and make utterly sure that anyone putting on a garment of two different materials is dealt with. In for a penny, in for a pound.

If you read Harry Potter, try and find the bits where he goes against the law of God. It features magic as a central theme/plot device, but so have other books for centuries. The main character does not do anything evil, or against the commandments; on the contrary, he acts heroically, with self sacrifice, is loyal to his friends, honours his parents, and does good deeds. Not in the manner which Pharisees would have approved of, but in a manner closer to another person in the New Testament...
Furthermore, it is a book which inspires reading and learning in children who otherwise would scorn such pursuits. From an educational viewpoint, that is one its outstanding features. It may not work for all, but it sure has shown tangible results in many cases. Is this, literacy and enjoyment of books, something that is against God? No, it is not.

These are the type of arguments used a few years back to condemn role playing, and specifically Dungeons and Dragons as the work of Satan, witchcraft and sorcery. Regardless of the fact that it was a hobby pursued by many, many good Christians who did and do take umbrage with being slandered in such a manner. There was one great accusation about it leading to the killing of cats; how they worked that out, I don't know, given many of the authors, game designers, players etc had perfectly healthy cats of their own who had not yet been bumped off... :rolleyes:

If ye don't like it, that is all well and good. But calling it the work of the Devil is illogical, irrational, and worst of all tars those who read the books and enjoy them with the brush of evil, sorcery, etc. And I, for one, take issue with that, which implies at the very least heresy and blasphemy. I am guilty of many things, but certainly not of that.
Christianity does not teach irrational, blind hatred; it teaches people to be sensible and to exercise their free will to follow the path of righteousness.
 
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
If you are into condemning 'sorcery' and magic in books, then chuck the Chronicles of Narnia, the Lord of the Rings and countless other books on the pyre. They have something about magic in them, so they must be evil, even though the authors were strong Christians in many cases.
Condemn all the fairy stories, folktales and mythology in the world, and shoot at it as target practice. Le Morte D'Arthur? Get on the truck.
Cinderella? You're nicked! Disneyland? Shut it down.


Okay! I overstated my claim! I'm saying HP is optional. He is a little over the top though. Cinderella and such is okay with me. They are like ten pages long. However, HP is inches thick of pages. As for HP being fantasy and make-believe, Proverbs says You are the company you keep.
 
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Furthermore, obey all the strictures of Leviticus, et al. Don't go near unclean women at certain times of month, cast those with leprosy from your camp and make them wear "torn clothes and let the hair of his head be disheveled; and shall he cover his upper lip and cry out, 'Unclean, unclean.'"
Remember not to sow your fields with two kinds of seed, and make utterly sure that anyone putting on a garment of two different materials is dealt with. In for a penny, in for a pound.

That's the Old Covenent. It's obselete. The New Covenent is Jesus. He lifted those laws. But some of the laws (like the feild with two seeds) is to prevent Israel from "Culture Flipping" to other nations' superstitions. In acient times, people thought that if they put two seeds in the same field they would "marry" and produce a large crop. God said not to do that so the Israelites would not switch cultures and be led astray.
 
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
If you read Harry Potter, try and find the bits where he goes against the law of God. It features magic as a central theme/plot device, but so have other books for centuries. The main character does not do anything evil, or against the commandments; on the contrary, he acts heroically, with self sacrifice, is loyal to his friends, honours his parents, and does good deeds. Not in the manner which Pharisees would have approved of, but in a manner closer to another person in the New Testament...
Furthermore, it is a book which inspires reading and learning in children who otherwise would scorn such pursuits. From an educational viewpoint, that is one its outstanding features. It may not work for all, but it sure has shown tangible results in many cases. Is this, literacy and enjoyment of books, something that is against God? No, it is not.


But even though he does perform heroism, he is also performing ungodly magic.
 
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
If ye don't like it, that is all well and good. But calling it the work of the Devil is illogical, irrational, and worst of all tars those who read the books and enjoy them with the brush of evil, sorcery, etc. And I, for one, take issue with that, which implies at the very least heresy and blasphemy. I am guilty of many things, but certainly not of that.
Christianity does not teach irrational, blind hatred; it teaches people to be sensible and to exercise their free will to follow the path of righteousness.


Sheesh! Can't I exagerate? I don't mean it's the Devil's work. I was kidding! He's not the Devil. But he is ungodly. Besides I think I can survive without reading HP.
 
Originally posted by puglover
Okay! I overstated my claim! I'm saying HP is optional. He is a little over the top though. Cinderella and such is okay with me. They are like ten pages long. However, HP is inches thick of pages. As for HP being fantasy and make-believe, Proverbs says You are the company you keep.

Ah, the first glimpses of the dawn of common sense over the horizon!

Of course it is optional. No one here, or elsewhere, is making it compulsary.
Of course it is over the top - it is fantasy. There is far more "over the top" fantasy, and even reality out there in the world of fiction.
If you don't like it as a book, that is fine. Plenty of people have said so here. But calling it the Devil, and thus those who read it being evil, is going too far.
The length of the book has nothing to do with it. There are short books, such as The Outsider, and there are longer tomes, such as Rememberance of Things Past. They each have their merits, and each of them may not be someone's cup of tea.

Proverbs does caution against taking up with evil companions "My child, if sinners entice you, do not consent. If they say, "Come with us, let us lie in wait for blood; let us wantonly ambush the innocent; like Sheol let us swallow them alive and whole, like those who go down to the pit." "
It also tells of the value of wisdom, and of knowledge. Nowhere does it speak of certain types of books being condemned as unholy.
There are far worse things in this world that are far more worthy of attention and condemnation than a simple fictional book beloved of many, that has done no harm.
 
First of all, you can answer several points in one post quite safely.

That's the Old Covenent. It's obselete. The New Covenent is Jesus. He lifted those laws. But some of the laws (like the feild with two seeds) is to prevent Israel from "Culture Flipping" to other nations' superstitions. In acient times, people thought that if they put two seeds in the same field they would "marry" and produce a large crop. God said not to do that so the Israelites would not switch cultures and be led astray.

Indeed, it is obsolete. But picking and choosing things from it to support a case still remains, seemingly. One is aware of the historical reasons behind the various cultural and dietary laws.


But even though he does perform heroism, he is also performing ungodly magic.

Why is this fictional account of magic ungodly? It's source is not pointed out, and it is a naturally occuring talent within the fantasy millieu. The practice of magic and witchcraft is condemned, certainly, but if you are to extend it to books, then you must include all of the previously mentioned texts, and the countless others which feature it. Add in any books which feature adultery, theft, murder... If you are to apply this condemnation to all books with "ungodly" elements, then the list of what is left to be read will be very, very short indeed.

Sheesh! Can't I exagerate? I don't mean it's the Devil's work. I was kidding! He's not the Devil. But he is ungodly. Besides I think I can survive without reading HP.

Once could be understood as exaggeration. Repeated and loud declarations are naturally perceived as something else. What's it going to be? Is it of the Devil or not? You are yet to supply anything more than an inconsistent blanket label of "ungodly" also. The Bible and Christianity teach us to use what God has given us, including common sense. This is what we use for situations not specifically covered.
We are given the ability of discernment, and can read of things, but not be corrupted by them. When the particular references to witchcraft were written, they probably didn't anticipate the existence of fictional books.

Of course you survive without reading it. No one is contending otherwise. But saying that it is ungodly, or the work of the Devil, is to impugn others.
 
Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Furthermore, it is a book which inspires reading and learning in children who otherwise would scorn such pursuits. From an educational viewpoint, that is one its outstanding features. It may not work for all, but it sure has shown tangible results in many cases.

Never before have I so fully agreed with one of Simon's posts, especially the part above, which I felt worthy of repeating.
 
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