has any one been had open borders with isabella and/or tokugawa

[kristopherb]

i ve had open borders with both not at the same time (toku attacked me after 13 turns of signing the agreement

 

[migo]

Togugawa can be your best friend in case you share the same religion, in my games he has been "Friendly" many times. Bad side is that other AIs almost always hate him and don't like you either because you trade with him and share his religion.

Togu is also known backstabber, but if you have large army he rarely has guts to attack you (and you usually will be more advanced than he is anyways so you will have better troops).

 

[GIO888]

Had to give Isabella a resources cash AND a tech to get her to OB for me early on when I only had trireme.

True about Tokugawa, nothing to add there!

 

[Dagoril]

I got Isabella to Friendly in my last game with her nearby, and then she asked me for a defensive pact! I had to go to war with her, and take 3 of her cities to do it though hehe. Once I had her cities I was able to make a missionary and convert my cities to her religion, which helped a ton. When I was attacked by a third power later, after she asked me for the defensive pact, she came to my aid and went berserk on them

If you can't get her on your side asap, I'd recommend eliminating her instead. If she or Toku are near you on the map, just plan ahead and build your attack force and have it on standby in your nearest city.

Tokugawa I had pleased with me in our last game, and had open borders. Again I had to take a city to get it. He had converted to my religion before he even attacked me though, go figure.

 

[3 EMS]

I've had open borders and freindly relations with Isabella. Most of my open borders with Toku come as a result of war.

 

[Older than Dirt]

This is enlightening informantion. I had given up even considering being friendly with these two and figured it was next to impossible to ever be safe with either of them around. For the last 4 months I have been liquidating them both asap.

 

[Mewtarthio]

The only way I know to be friendly with Tokugawa is to give him free goodies or to convert him to your religion. The guy seems to red out everything for "We just don't like you enough" when you first meet him, so you have to find ways outside of fair trading to get him on your side.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

Yes, Tokugawa can like you when you share the same religion, but is very uncooperative. His cities are normally on the top of my 'shopping list'.

 

[jimbob27]

Both of them are totally bi-polar. They'll either love you or hate you, depending on your religion. Isabella is the best neighbour if you're willing to share her religion. If you don't she'll hate you.

 

[JoeBas]

Both of them are totally bi-polar. They'll either love you or hate you, depending on your religion. Isabella is the best neighbour if you're willing to share her religion. If you don't she'll hate you.

Yup, I had her at an insane +22 this last game... before I had to go sabotaging her spaceship parts...

 

[Seleukos Helios]

Did I miss something?
I was under the impression that all leaders had the same diplomatic AI (maybe differentiated a bit by their traits and favourite civics). Is there a deeper personalization of characters which makes Tokugawa and Isabella so intolerant? Or is it just the combination of their respective particular traits that causes that?

 

[jimbob27]

You did miss something, the diplomatic AI varies a lot

Isabella's a religious nutjob. Toku is as well, but not so much. Toku's generally a bit of a xenophobe. You get the impression he's rather have nothing to do with any other civs. Hatty, mansa musa and huyna capac are tech-trading junkies. Caesar is pretty subborn in war. He'll sometimes refuse peace even when he's getting his arse kicked. Ghandi is always your friend, because he's immune to a lot of the negative modifiers. Monty is a total warmonger, as is napoleon and the Kahns. The Kahns raze 90% of the cities they conquer.

Theres way way more, but thats just some of the general attitudes. I think theres actually something like 70 variables that determine their personality.

 

[Seleukos Helios]

Wow. I had noticed some differentiations, but had thought they stemmed from purely diplomatic and geopolitical reasons. Now I’m glad I joined this forum. Is there a particular file where I can find those variables?

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Re the original post, I managed it once a while back.. click on http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3550982&postcount=1 to view "happy world"..

I've never manged anything again remotely like that...

 

[Esox]

I like the gameplay of having certain AI who are just lunatics. Makes the game less predictable in a way. But I think the historical Japanese isolationism had more to do with geography than any 'personality quirk,' so I don't see why they have to be that way every time they show up in your game. It would be fun to get along with Toku or for once and have, say, Gandhi just hate me for no reason.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Wow. I had noticed some differentiations, but had thought they stemmed from purely diplomatic and geopolitical reasons. Now I’m glad I joined this forum. Is there a particular file where I can find those variables?

Go to your Civilization 4 file. Go to Assets/XML/Civilizations/LeaderHeadInfos.xml and enjoy. Also, you could try searching the Strategy Articles forum with keywords like "personalities" or "AI" or "diplomacy" along with the keyword "excel." I'm fairly certain there's a spreadsheet out there.

 

[jimbob27]

I like the gameplay of having certain AI who are just lunatics. Makes the game less predictable in a way. But I think the historical Japanese isolationism had more to do with geography than any 'personality quirk,' so I don't see why they have to be that way every time they show up in your game. It would be fun to get along with Toku or for once and have, say, Gandhi just hate me for no reason.

I have to disagree with your theory on Japan. Just take England as an example. They were an island nation, yet their international policy has always been quite the opposite.

I think it's mainly down to Shintoism. Traditionally it was a very isolationist religion, so the Japanese kept themselves to themselves because of that.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Wow. I had noticed some differentiations, but had thought they stemmed from purely diplomatic and geopolitical reasons. Now I’m glad I joined this forum. Is there a particular file where I can find those variables?

This thread has a download with the leader information.

This link explains what each variable is.

 

[Xanikk999]

I once had toku friendly with me and we had open borders and a defensive pact! Might of even been possible to get a permenent alliance that game.

Reason is because of all the gifts i gave him from the start and we declared war on civs together. Not to mention he was my religion also.

He loved me for that game, but only that game.

Any other game i kill him fast!

 

[angelus512]

Toku is an isolationist annoying little man. Not really threatening but just always in a grumpy mood even when its damnwell clear he better be kissing your ass else he's going to get shut down. But no, the grumpy mood continues.

As for Isabella, cannot under any circumstances in the entire game trust her for even a few scant seconds. As others have pointed out she's prone to complete acts of randomness and is a religious nutter of astounding proportions.