Has the difficulty level been increased in a recent patch?

[redwings1340]

Your strategy should depend who you're next to, but even with non optimal play, you should be able to survive on king. I understand your pain though. Quickly after my first win on immortal, I jumped back down to prince just to see how much I could dominate with the mayans. I went fast national college and Attila killed me .

Try to create a couple of scouts to open the game if you don't do that. The really fast national college strategy only works if your nearby civs are relatively peaceful ones. If you find yourself next to Shaka or Attila (or any of the crazy guys), you'll need to get a few composite bowmen really quickly to fend off their attacks (and delay the national college accordingly). Try to place your cities on hills for better defense, especially if you feel like they are going to be under attack soon.

 

[Txurce]

The King AI handicap has not been buffed. In every level above Prince, the AI will have an early edge in every category, so you can't expect to be the early leader in everything. It's a matter of learning how to build a civ that can stand the test of time, and then out-specializing the AI in the mid- and late game. Check out the 3-city Tradition start for optimal ways to start (and add more military if you're not good at defending).

You can still be ambushed, as you were, by a civ that's loaded up for bear. You can usually see this coming, if a civ isn't expanding normally. They are focusing on either Wonders or units.

You have to use your trade routes if you want to be financially viable now. It's more interesting to many, but you may not like it.

 

[Rohili]

So does this boil down to the fact that I play casually (and occasionally) and that I don't play 'optimally'? I had only built two cities by 800BC and only had a handful of units. I am losing my passion for Civ, which could also be a factor. It does seem that every version of Civ (at least since Civ4) gets patched and tweaked based on the gameplay experiences of 'optimal' players, and the corresponding fun factor is reduced.

I can never understand players who insist on playing high difficulty levels and then complain the game is too hard or forces them to play a certain way just to survive. If you want to play "casually", drop to Prince or below - that's what those difficulties are there for!

 

[EK834]

The AI seems indeed to do somewhat better on King.

I play leisurely, experiment, role play by giving myself handicaps on King (if I play more strategically I become a runaway early and it's too boring). If I want to play strategically I rather play Emperor (and get crushed if I don't play my A game).

My already ongoing game on King that was going normally (I was getting ahead of the middle group in Classical, and would catch up the tech leading two civs probably through the Middle-Ages, and I magnanimously let the AI have the GL to keep a decent adversary for the later game) has taken a turn for the worse after I installed the patch. I managed to keep up within the middle-group, but two more civs caught up with the leaders and have since become runaways, and only 3 civs overall have really fallen behind in tech (both after losing many cities), something I had not seen when playing on King for a long while. It's the first time I've had Maria Theresa as runaway, and playing so wide, conquering adjacent cities from her immediate neighbors in slow waves, razing the badly located, pre-patch cities, growing the others. First time i've seen Maria Theresa expands "aggressively"/imperialistically like this in one of my games. After leaving his neighbors alone most of the game, the real runaway Ahmad has finally started to conquer a few of their cities in the modern era, but like a lion playing with mice (he could wipe them out in no time...)

Catherine has rather built 20 cities or so, conquered about 5 from England... and she's keeping up in tech and culture for once!

Casimir has reduced the wide Spain to 4 cities, all during the industrial era.

Genghis wiped out William in Classical and has also done something pretty cool that I suspect is alas purely coincidental (but that I might reproduce as a strategy in Venice a game with a wide Alex one day...): in the modern era he conquered all the mercantile CS... Bye bye happiness bonuses (and bye bye Freedom ideology for a now very unhappy England).

I'm not sure I would have perceived a greater difficulty that much had I played as I do on Emperor in the early game (I'll see in the next game) and got my usual lead, but I started this one too leisurely and the tweaks of the patch arriving mid-game seemed enough for the AI to really have caught me with my pants down. Which is cool. I'll just go back to Prince for my lazier games if necessary. It would in fact be cool if it turns out King is truly more challenging because of AI tweaks, without the cheats of Emperor and above that I don't like so much.

 

[mediobogdum]

Are all your cities connected to the capital? You should be gaining at minimum same amount of GPT as total population in all connected cities.

I connected two cities pretty quick, one is a POP 1 and the other POP 2. There's my three gold.

I shouldn't have built the roads so soon I guess, it was standard practice for me before BNW.

My cities do not pay for themselves, my POP 6 capital earns 4.9 gpt. The other two earn 0 as yet. River money was nice.

Can't afford one worker per city, nor one unit per city.

 

[VisageTDI]

Well there you have it. You built roads way too early. If nearest city to the capitol is 6 hexes away, don't build the road till you have 6 pop in it. Otherwise you'll be losing money while it grows.

 

[Txurce]

My cities do not pay for themselves, my POP 6 capital earns 4.9 gpt. The other two earn 0 as yet. River money was nice.

Can't afford one worker per city, nor one unit per city.

6 pop in the cap is way too low. You need trade routes. And perhaps a gold emphasis for your workforce (not normally, but given your current circumstances). One thing for sure: your bad start has nothing to do with the AI. Again, I suggest studying some of the strategy threads, and practicing their suggestions, if you want to play well at a level you find competitive.

 

[katfish]

Now I just get routinely crushed, not a 'challenge' any more - just a frustrating impossibility

try to play Babylon, wall yourself and laugh at Assyrian and Huns pathetic DoWs

 

[mediobogdum]

If nearest city to the capitol is 6 hexes away, don't build the road

Yikes, ok this is about what I expected. I guess I just can't do things like I'm used to.

The first hundred turns used to be set in stone; no longer.

6 pop in the cap is way too low. You need trade routes. And perhaps a gold emphasis for your workforce (not normally, but given your current circumstances).

Too low relative to the number of cities I have? Meaning I shouldn't have founded a new city if my cap is only pop 6?

And about those trade routes, do people create them right away? I had one w/ Hiawatha my nearest neighbor but it was only worth 1gpt.

One thing for sure: your bad start has nothing to do with the AI.

This I can believe, I don't use the term and don't blame inanimate things for anything.

It's some consolation that I'm not the only one having money problems on Prince.

 

[Scott Jegg]

Send trade routes to AI civs that are near you.

1. You will get some money that you appear to be lacking.

2. The AI is less likely to attack if they are making money from you.

 

[Txurce]

Too low relative to the number of cities I have? Meaning I shouldn't have founded a new city if my cap is only pop 6?

And about those trade routes, do people create them right away? I had one w/ Hiawatha my nearest neighbor but it was only worth 1gpt.

This I can believe, I don't use the term and don't blame inanimate things for anything.

It's some consolation that I'm not the only one having money problems on Prince.

What I meant was, 1) your size-6 cap was too small at the time, and 2) don't waste your energy speculating about the AI handicap, and focus instead in what you can most certainly control. You are right that gold is a problem on Prince - mainly due to the absence of handicaps giving the AI gold you can trade for. If a caravan is going to give you negligible gpt - or even if it's not - consider using it for food in the capital.

As a rule of thumb, you should go with Tradition, and build a second city as soon as your cap hits 4 - in fact, it should probably be two more cities. Try building them atop a luxury, so happiness is not a problem until they're good-sized. But your main goal early on is to grow these cities as fast as possible, while maintaining a threshold level army. Build them with food caravans, granaries, and micro-managing for an emphasis on food. Use your workers not for roads, but for food or tree-choppoing to build food (granaries, water mills, more workers/settlers). Start with Pottery, build a shrine after two scouts, and go for either faith or food if the boosts in your territory are decent.

What sort of military do you need? None in at least the first 50 turns, most of the time. Try to have 3 or 4 archers soon after that. Promote them with Construction, and you're all set for a long, long time.

 

[Horizons]

Your strategy should depend who you're next to, but even with non optimal play, you should be able to survive on king. I understand your pain though. Quickly after my first win on immortal, I jumped back down to prince just to see how much I could dominate with the mayans. I went fast national college and Attila killed me .

Try to create a couple of scouts to open the game if you don't do that. The really fast national college strategy only works if your nearby civs are relatively peaceful ones. If you find yourself next to Shaka or Attila (or any of the crazy guys), you'll need to get a few composite bowmen really quickly to fend off their attacks (and delay the national college accordingly). Try to place your cities on hills for better defense, especially if you feel like they are going to be under attack soon.

Prince level is a walkover for me and got boring. I had this exact same problem in Civ4. Going from Prince to King is like getting raped, it is really traumatic.

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[civ54lyfe]

Prince -> King is regarded as the widest difficulty jump in the game.

 

[Gort]

Going from Prince to King is like getting raped

What.

 

[mediobogdum]

What I meant was, 1) your size-6 cap was too small at the time, and 2) don't waste your energy speculating about the AI handicap, and focus instead in what you can most certainly control. You are right that gold is a problem on Prince - mainly due to the absence of handicaps giving the AI gold you can trade for. If a caravan is going to give you negligible gpt - or even if it's not - consider using it for food in the capital.

As a rule of thumb, you should go with Tradition, and build a second city as soon as your cap hits 4 - in fact, it should probably be two more cities. Try building them atop a luxury, so happiness is not a problem until they're good-sized. But your main goal early on is to grow these cities as fast as possible, while maintaining a threshold level army. Build them with food caravans, granaries, and micro-managing for an emphasis on food. Use your workers not for roads, but for food or tree-choppoing to build food (granaries, water mills, more workers/settlers). Start with Pottery, build a shrine after two scouts, and go for either faith or food if the boosts in your territory are decent.

What sort of military do you need? None in at least the first 50 turns, most of the time. Try to have 3 or 4 archers soon after that. Promote them with Construction, and you're all set for a long, long time.

I see, I moved away from Trad when I tried the first BNW game, some fuzzy idea about needing pyramids. I was wrong about that, I'm not hurting for units but for gold.

Building the second city is when I start bleeding money, I will not connect it right away this time however.

My only "army" is two scouts, two archers and my starting warrior. This is barely enough to deal w/ barbs, being that they are stretched over three cities.

Thanks for replying, I'm going to take another whack at it.

Thanks!

 

[redwings1340]

Prince level is a walkover for me and got boring. I had this exact same problem in Civ4. Going from Prince to King is like getting raped, it is really traumatic.

First of all, I hate to be that guy, but please try to avoid making that kind of comparison in the future. It is pretty insensitive and increases the perception that rape is not a major problem, when it definitely is one in our society.

Secondly, that game on prince I shared was an anomaly (as I said, I can beat the game pre patch on emperor most of the time, and I've won on deity and immortal both once), but it just highlights the flaw of sticking to a starting plan (fast national college) without checking your surroundings (Attila). The reason I lost was because I thought I was invincible, so even when I saw his battering rams getting sort of near me, I didn't adjust. Getting a fast national college with 3-4 cities early is a great starting strategy, but if there's a warmonger nearby, you'll want to go down construction and get a few composite bowmen quickly, and maybe send some of your scouts back home to help fight off the invasion. Alternatively, you could bribe the militaristic civ in to attacking another civilization, but that doesn't always work. I think part of what is going wrong for you is that you're setting yourself up with a strategy, and then not adjusting for your surroundings.

 

[joncnunn]

If you mean BETA, yeah, I noticed an increase in difficulty - everyone seems to tech faster now. Could be just my imagination, though, but they do seem to be all doing much better now, probably because of the change that made them more likely to build science stuff.

If their aggresiveness and willingness to war was slightly increased (so they attack when it's obvious they're going to win) , Civ 5 BNW would be even more challenging.

I have the Beta and ran a comparison of the building file; science flavors of the science buildings have increased; especially the National College; so I would indeed hope that the AI prioritizes science buildings more. (At least the ones with 6+ science rating.) It should help their game a lot given how science is everything.

I didn't see anything dealing with likelihood of declaring war (although if the AI reaches a key military tech faster, it can upgrade it troops which would increase it's military score which would increase war likelihood). but I did see some settings that appear designed to make the tactical AI a bit more aggressive.

 

[Tarvok]

I didn't play much before G&K, so I can't miss the river gold (and I definitely don't miss roadspam from earlier versions of the game). I've found that the most important thing is to work as many of those luxury hexes as possible. People talk about how awesome it is to go tall, but if you go wide, you can have every single unit of population working a special resource hex.

Also, don't just build lots of units for no reason. Build up savings instead, and quickbuy your army when one becomes necessary.

 

[Txurce]

I see, I moved away from Trad when I tried the first BNW game, some fuzzy idea about needing pyramids. I was wrong about that, I'm not hurting for units but for gold.

Building the second city is when I start bleeding money, I will not connect it right away this time however.

My only "army" is two scouts, two archers and my starting warrior. This is barely enough to deal w/ barbs, being that they are stretched over three cities.

Thanks for replying, I'm going to take another whack at it.

Thanks!

Yeah, don't worry about Wonders until you have the basic situation under control. Your army should be good enough in most cases, as long as you protect your units, and focus on killing the "right" invader - sometimes it's ranged units, sometimes it's melee. (Usually the one there's less of.) Also, if possible, build on hills, and behind rivers.

At Prince level, where the AI isn't helping you with gold trades or routes, too-early roads will kill you. Also, consider improving resources instead of luxuries first, as you can then more likely trade the AI 1-for-1, 2-for-2, etc, rather than hoping for someone to give you 5-6 gpt for a lux.

 

[ToothedBomb]

I agree with Horizons. I also play on King exclusively.

In Vanilla and G&K I knew what I should to build, when I should build it and what I should prioritize. With BNW everything is just messed up, because I can't get any money without building expensive caravans (I've even had instances where there were no cities within range to trade with.) I can't get culture without building guilds (And then wait for the damn artworks to pop up.) and I can't build an army because I have no gold. So what should I do? Settle more cities? More often than not there aren't even any good spots with a new luxury resource, or I'm surrounded by AI that will get angry if I settle too close.

I've won a few games (Probably by luck.), but other times I just notice things are going bad, and when the AI takes that last religion I worked so hard for, or steals that certain wonder I put a lot of effort in, I'm just done.

Yeah, it's probably all me. Maybe I can't adapt to new rules in my game. I just remember having a lot more fun with G&K when that came out. I often switch back to G&K because some friends I play with don't have BNW yet, and I hardly miss any of the new gameplay additions. I don't miss tourism. I don't miss trade routes. The only thing I miss are the new Civs.