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Hating Diety

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Park Hyun, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. japanesesamurai

    japanesesamurai Prince

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    Which seems to be your exact problem. You seem a bit frustrated. There’s no need to condemn the Dutch heretic. Having her spreading her religion to you only benefits you. You gotta stay cool man.
    And as mentioned the Byzzies are quite difficult as they start super slow. It’s probably one of the trickier civs to play in your case.
    In your case I wd try the Gauls or Sumeria. Or Bull Moose Teddy. He never really falls behind that much techwise
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  2. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    I always feel like Australia is not that easy/straightforward/OP to play because I need to make decisions between production output and appeal (which is a interesting game design on meaningful choices, IMHO).
     
  3. Park Hyun

    Park Hyun Chieftain

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    I'm not really annoyed about the conversion, just the lack of being able to do anything about it, and how crazy fast it happened.

    The main issue, as Biz, is that if you don't get a religion, you really lose a lot of the civ. And that feeds into the overall point about diety - if you need to play specific civs to have a decent chance of surviving long enough to do anything, it's not really "fun." It's not good game design.

    I'm bored with Immortal and yet find diety to be ridiculous, and the advice I see to players doesn't really help - I'm doing that, man! So my frustration with the game gets compounded with my frustration at getting advice that makes it sound like WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM JUST DO THIS STUFF.

    Gah! Just let me scream into the void a little!
     
    civviefan and Socrates99 like this.
  4. japanesesamurai

    japanesesamurai Prince

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    Just declare war before they have a chance of positioning their units on your borders. Stomp a few of their losely positioned units. Steal a settler or builder and chances are they start protecting their capital. Meanwhile you can continue building stuff. Peace out for flat gold and continue your game.
    Also don’t settle a city close to them which you can’t protect. A city in the middle of flat land is difficult to protect early on. It is in some cases better to not settle a second city at all

    If deity is too difficult then obviously you should start with a strong civ until you manage the early game.
    And yes of course the game is not made to be played on deity. It is supposed to be hardcore mode. But then again, if you play Mongolia on settler difficulty and you have no horses then similarly you can’t use his ability
     
  5. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    I hate to advocate save scumming but if an AI really does catch you off guard with a surprise war while you're exploring or dealing with a distant barbarian camp you could just go back ten or so turns and pull your units back. Then while it positions its army you can declare a surprise war on it. That let's you get first strike instead of the other way around.
     
  6. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    It's a recommendation, you certainly don't *have* to play specific civs to succeed. Any civ in the game is more than capable of winning on Deity, just maybe not as easily on your very first game or two. As far as Byzantium is concerned, yeah they really need a religion to strive, but in the two games I started as them on Deity I was able to get one easily enough. Did you run the prayer city project after building your holy site? You may have to sacrifice early expansion to get your religion, but when they're that strong after getting one who cares, you'll make up for it later.
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  7. Cpt Chaos

    Cpt Chaos Chieftain

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    Be careful with this assumption. It may be uncommon, but the AI absolutely can use formal war declarations against you. A recent example involved Tomyris meeting me on T7, immediately denouncing me, and then declaring a formal war on T13.
     
  8. Buktu

    Buktu Warlord

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    But Byzantium gets a bonus towards religion. An extra great prophet point from holy sites does not seem like a big thing but it helps alot in this regard. It's like a free Divine Spark for prophets. If you go with a 2 city into 2 holy site start you should even beat all the AI which dont build a HS but pick the dedication with +4 prophet points per turn since you will get 4 per turn as well - but you can start to get those points earlier and even work a project if needed.
     
  9. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Will they do it to Canada, though? I have done a lot of testing as Canada and no matter how much I antagonize them I've never had them declare on me even if I denounce them and have no army whatsoever. Maybe they finally fixed this in the last couple of months of updates, but I doubt it.
     
  10. Buktu

    Buktu Warlord

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    Maybe its a Tomyris thing since her agenda is sth like dislikes you if you declare surprise wars?
     
  11. Kmart_Elvis

    Kmart_Elvis King

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    The upcoming patch makes non-religious civs no longer prioritize Holy Sites anymore. An easy way to give yourself a leg-up on a Byzantine Deity game would be to just select non-religious civs as your competition.
     
  12. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    I dislike playing on high difficulties, but i also play the game as a means to relax. Being behind from the start and having to put in effort to catch up to an absurdly advantaged AI does the opposite, hence why i'm happily sticking to King.

    I think it's more than fair to hate Deity difficulty. It's not supposed to be sandbox fun. It is supposed to be a pain. If you don't like that, just don't bother playing it. ‍♀️
     
  13. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    I agree that deity isn't fun. I can win about half the time, but it's just too intense and, perhaps more importantly, too punishing.

    I don't mind some degree of min-maxing, this is a strategy after all, but it's just too much.

    Oh, and sometimes there's just no chance of you ever winning and that's no fun either. I think everybody has at least one horror story of a turn 10 loss due to getting rushed. On the bright side, at least it's over quick and you can just start over again :p
     
    Park Hyun likes this.
  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Then don't play it lol.

    Also some players are just very experienced as this is one of many games in the franchise and the AI can be exploited in various hillarious ways. But you never know the context, and some play by rerolling good starts or easy settings like small Pangaea or slow speeds or something.

    I usually don't play Deity, but I do it once in a while when the game changes to show I can, but street cred is pretty worthless if you ask me.
     
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  15. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    I can beat Deity games no problem, but I do not always play those games. Depends on my mood or what am I trying to figure out or if I just want to play Zulu drink gin and chill out on a Friday night. If I drink enough, I will make enough mistakes that an Emperor or Immortal game might as well been a Deity game. When they release new content and Civs, I do not play on Deity first. Usually Emperor, sometimes King. Just depends. Once I get my groove on the new mechanics, often times I reload on Emperor or Immortal at most.

    Deity games, at least in Civ6, can actually be unwinnable if you get the wrong neighbors on a Pangea map. Getting Mongolia to the right, Nubia to the north, and Sumeria to the left? Persia, Chandy, or similar? Forget about it. Reroll it. Never be afraid to reload a Deity game in Civ6. It is not like Civ5 where you can still win 98% of the time even with Mongolia, The Huns, France, Harald as your neighbors, if you have the skills.... Civ6 is just lopsided. Too poor of a start and it isn't really worth trying it.
     
  16. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    Having Gilgamesh as a neighbor makes playing the game feel one difficulty level easier. Declare friendship upon meeting him and he'll be your friend for life.
     
  17. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    Perhaps Deity Canada would be a good option. You have a few turns to get your crap together before the AI curbstomps you.
     
  18. Oberinspektor Derrick

    Oberinspektor Derrick Warlord

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    Canada is a solid choice, but encourages bad gameplay that he won't learn from if he wants to improve in general for Deity (as in, you can get away with a lot of stuff that none of the other civs can, and any game plan he learns from that is not directly translatable to different civs he tries later on).

    I'd personally pursue two opening styles and choose "easy" civs for that purpose:
    One is the aggressive opener (where you stop at 2-3 cities and conquer your neighbour with units produced off those) - good choices for these are Sumeria, Gran Colombia, Nubia, Gaul, and maybe Aztecs.
    After you conquer your nearest neighbour, you start developing your new empire (which should consist of at least 6 cities total by then).
    The advantage of this opener is that you are generally safe from any immediate neighbours and have an army to discourage another declaration of war. On the flip side, you are most likely underdeveloped (though you might have taken a few campuses off your neighbour if lucky) so you need to work on that immediately once you secured victory.
    Speed is of the essence here though, as well as a good tactical sense so that you are able to conquer their army before they tech up too far, cities before they get walls, as well as hold onto those cities.

    The other style is the peaceful opener, where you early on identify where your neighbours are, where you have room to settle, and go from there - good choices here are civs like Korea (possibly Maya, but their early build order is very different from other civs and not recommended if you aren't 100% sure of what you're doing), Australia, Gaul among others.
    These civs have an advantage in very early and strong science (which lets you unlock new tech like Horsemen and Crossbowmen sooner), or very early production and culture (which lets you unlock the settler card and Oligarchy sooner, and generally produce units/infrastructure on a whim).
    Forward settle maybe one or two cities somewhat near the neighbour (but not so that you lose loyalty now or in the future, and not so close that they take it as a sign of aggression) so that you stake out that land as your future border.
    Then continue settling your hinterlands.
    You don't need as much army for that, and depending on if you have room to settle just a few cities (up to 8) or a large number of cities (10+) you decide on whether you need the Ancestral Hall or not (you obviously need the settler production card, and if possible use a monumentality golden age to buy settlers en masse).
    From those freshly settled cities, work on infrastructure to the extent that you feel safe (be mindful of army value scores as usual, you usually don't want to be below 1/3 to 1/4 of the neighbours value) - plopping down campuses, comm hubs, worker improvements etc.
    The advantages of this build are that you get right on to improving your empire from the start, getting high adjacency (if possible) campuses down to lock in their cheap costs, as well as settling and improving features.
    The drawback is of course that your neighbour is more free to do as he pleases, so you need to watch out for when you need to start unit production.

    Mind that if you do have a neighbour and you don't plan on conquering, always use the scout/warrior to scout for any incoming armies - this is vital.
    I know most people want to use that scout/warrior to run around, get tribal villages, clear barb camps and meet city states, but if your spidey sense tickles regarding your neighbour, keep at least one of them near to spot what your neighbour is up to - you'll have a much higher success rate since your issue is early aggression from the AI.
    If you do spot them ahead of time, you should swap production over to warriors/archers and fortify your nearest border city ASAP.
    Having a few warriors fortified on hills/woods etc. outside a city will make them very tanky while your archers behind them whittle down their main force.

    Needless to say though, Deity early game is hard, and you can't use a strict cookie cutter build in all situations.
    Therefore you always need to pay attention to your surroundings (are there units incoming? How close are their cities? Are there any natural chokepoints between my city and their army, that I can hold and fortify at to stop their attack?) and your neighbour's score (especially army value and science per turn, those are good predictors of whether you might run into trouble in the short and medium term).
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  19. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    I suspect people call it easy based on the games that they actually get to play out... they don't count the restarts where they get crushed by an ancient era surprise war with all the AI's starting warriors under 20 turns.

    Otherwise, if you survive, deity is not that different from immortal... the AI cannot keep up building peacefully, nor can they cope with cheap human exploits such as later surprise wars, plundering, joint wars and trade deals.

    If you befriend them all it hardly matters what the AIs are... in Civ VI everyone's personality is the same... they WILL take advantage of you if they see the chance, but a DoF does prevent a war. I've been killed by hypocrites Ted and John as often as by the Khan... and Monty is surprisingly easy to befriend as long as you give him a gift.

    Civ V does depend on bribing AIs into wars against other neighbors or city states... this feature is gone now.
     
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  20. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    For sure, but I prefer to take him out so he doesn't science out too hard for me to catch up :p
     

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