have same mechanic for luxury resources as current strategic resource mechanic

King Rad

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The new strategic resource mechanic is great. I suggest that the same mechanic be applied to luxury resources. I'm sure some balancing would be required, but have each city consume some amount [1!] per turn for a certain number of citizens. Have mines produce an amount per turn like the strategic resources. Don't limit the number of cities a luxury resource can be used in [i.e. the 4 limit under the current system]. So if I have six cities, each using one luxury resource per turn, and two mines each producing 4 luxury resource per turn, then I would be accumulating 2 resources per turn. This could be used for future expansion [supplying luxuries to cities that don't produce their own] or 'sold' [traded] to other civs for gold, diplomacy points, or luxury or strategic resources. there might be a requirement for a new city center building [warehouse] or perhaps an industrial zone building to increase storage capacity to save up for future city expansion. After playing the new strategic resource mechanic, I immediately started thinking how great it would be to apply the same to luxuries! Not a programmer, but hopefully something that could be easily implemented.
 
The new strategic resource mechanic is great. I suggest that the same mechanic be applied to luxury resources. I'm sure some balancing would be required, but have each city consume some amount [1!] per turn for a certain number of citizens. Have mines produce an amount per turn like the strategic resources. Don't limit the number of cities a luxury resource can be used in [i.e. the 4 limit under the current system]. So if I have six cities, each using one luxury resource per turn, and two mines each producing 4 luxury resource per turn, then I would be accumulating 2 resources per turn. This could be used for future expansion [supplying luxuries to cities that don't produce their own] or 'sold' [traded] to other civs for gold, diplomacy points, or luxury or strategic resources. there might be a requirement for a new city center building [warehouse] or perhaps an industrial zone building to increase storage capacity to save up for future city expansion. After playing the new strategic resource mechanic, I immediately started thinking how great it would be to apply the same to luxuries! Not a programmer, but hopefully something that could be easily implemented.

The problem I can see is that the 'use' and amount of 'Amenity' or 'luxury' Resources varies wildly from resource to resource and from Era to Era or Civ Situation compared the Strategic resource requirements.
A swordsman may have a long sword or a short sword, full body armor or just a helmet and shield, but the units are all about the same size in numbers of men, so the Iron requirement for Swordsman is pretty much a constant regardless of the Civilization or whether you are raising Swordsmen in the Classical or Medieval Eras.

But the requirements for, say, Silver, Diamonds, Spices or Cotton are wildly different, and they don't stay the same. Silver is a minor Luxury Good for decorative objects, usually as an alloy - until you invent Coins (Currency Tech in the game). Then Silver is the basic material for circulating coins in daily use, and remains so until the end of metallic currency (silver Tetradrachems, Solidii, Thalers, Dollars, etc). Suddenly the requirements multiply and lack of Silver can strangle your market economy. Spices and Diamonds are strictly luxury goods, only of interest to a tiny fraction of the population - until you get a robust Middle Class aping their betters, who start demanding Diamond wedding rings and spices for at least their special meals, and the requirements escalate.
Cotton, wherever it was first found, was the clothing material for most of the population - the requirements were always going to be vastly greater than for Diamonds or Spices.

So, putting Quantity Requirements on Amenity Resources is much more complicated than for the Strategic resources, and will be much more 'flexible' - changing frequently throughout the game.

That doesn't mean it's not a bad idea, just that the Quantities Required are going to be influenced or based on Civics and Technology much more than on simple Population numbers.
 
@Boris Gudenuf : I agree that a complex system could be developed for luxury resources, with changes occurring through the ages, etc. But all I'm suggesting as a starting point is a slight variation on the current system. right now, a luxury resource provides amenities to 4 cities max, with all excess being generally useless. For now I'm just suggesting something 'simple' - instead of one lux per mine giving four cities amenities, have luxes produce a number per turn [specific amount would have to be tested, but maybe 4 per turn so it still provides for the same amount of cities if they use 1 per turn]. If you only have 3 cities, then you would only need 3 per turn. You could either stockpile the difference for use later or sell/trade to another civ. I think this improves on the current amenities system; and it actually makes trading easier [don't have to remember which resource you're already receiving in a trade or when a trade ends - something I now track separately while playing]. It also limits the artificial distinction where only four cities ever want one specific luxury. Might have to change the number produced per mine for balance; but I think this could be worked out with a little testing.
 
I actually like the idea of luxury resources/amenities occupying a civilian counterpart niche to strategic resources.

The tiles themselves could still have the base yield modifiers, but the luxury resources could be individually collected. Cities would automatically subtract a number of resources to meet their amenity requirement, and the excess would be stockpiled. There would need to be a basic amenity management system to allow players a choice in which resources they stockpile but that wouldn't be too difficult.

I don't even think the balancing is needed like Boris noted. Luxuries are luxuries regardless of the era. They aren't mandatory for progress like the strategic resources, and their value is determined by scarcity, not what they actually do. They don't need to be balanced against technology so much as a availability, and a scarcity algorithm could just apply equally to all luxuries. But more importantly, not even scarcity would be all that necessary, since on average a luxury will amount to an amenity. But if push came to shove, it wouldn't be nearly the balancing act that strategic resources are, because there's no strong historical necessity for mechanical gatekeeping.
 
@Boris Gudenuf : I agree that a complex system could be developed for luxury resources, with changes occurring through the ages, etc. But all I'm suggesting as a starting point is a slight variation on the current system. right now, a luxury resource provides amenities to 4 cities max, with all excess being generally useless. For now I'm just suggesting something 'simple' - instead of one lux per mine giving four cities amenities, have luxes produce a number per turn [specific amount would have to be tested, but maybe 4 per turn so it still provides for the same amount of cities if they use 1 per turn]. If you only have 3 cities, then you would only need 3 per turn. You could either stockpile the difference for use later or sell/trade to another civ. I think this improves on the current amenities system; and it actually makes trading easier [don't have to remember which resource you're already receiving in a trade or when a trade ends - something I now track separately while playing]. It also limits the artificial distinction where only four cities ever want one specific luxury. Might have to change the number produced per mine for balance; but I think this could be worked out with a little testing.

Okay, Understand. I freely admit that one reason I looked for something more 'complicated' (reading My Desires into your OP, Mea Culpa) is that I would like to see the artificial distinctions among Resources abolished: a resource would be amenity, strategic, or 'bonus' based on situation, technology, and possibly even Civic (culture) and the exact use of a Resource would change throughout the game.
For instance, Horses might be a Strategic Resource in the first 5 Eras of the game, but along about the Industrial Era they could also be used for Race Tracks, which would be Amenity-Producing Improvements or Buildings - extending the use of the 'Strategic' Resource after horses lose their military utility.
Likewise, Cotton might be a Luxury in early Eras, but Cotton combined with the first Factories and Dyes produced Cheap Cloth, a major Gold-Producing manufactured Good that really spurred the growth of the English Trade Empire of the 18th century.

In other words, I'd like to see at last as much Accumulative Necessity for 'Luxuries' as there is now for Strategic Resources, as a step towards an Economic Overhaul of the game (3rd Expansion or Civ VII, I can be patient).

So, for instance, for an 'Interim' complexity, initially each Point of Resource could apply an Amenity Bonus to 1 City. Cities with a population of, say, 6 or more would require 2 points (exact numbers to be determined by testing, ideally), 12+ population 3, etc.
If you have a seacoast literally crawling with Turtles, every Population Point in your civilization might be feasting on Turtle Soup, but more likely each city would have a slightly different 'mix' of amenity-producing Resources.

I would even make it possible for you (possibly with a given Civic or Policy Card) to purposely 'withhold' some amount of Luxuries so they could be used for Trade (or bribes!) instead of keeping your people happy/Loyal.

All of which would provide much more flexibility to the Trade system, as you would now be, like Strategic resources, trading specific amounts of Amenity Resources in the same way - a batch of 1 'point' or more at a time, or a continuous number of points per turn, and, frankly, if you were providing a considerable number of points of Luxuries per turn to a Civ, it might be very dangerous to that Civ to attack you and temporarily cut off the supply, especially if he's got a bunch of 15 - 20 population cities and few Luxury/Amenity resources of his own. That, in turn, beefs up the Diplomacy system a bit, since Bribery With Amenities becomes a much more (potentially) Lucrative process, and withholding or offering Amenity Resources by quantity should garner a Civ some major positive attitudes even from the schizophrenic AI.
 
One of the mods in CiV I think it was, allowed for strategic resources to be used for other things once they were no longer 'strategic' - don't remember if it was a race track, per se, but I played with this mod and liked it.

Likewise, Cotton might be a Luxury in early Eras, but Cotton combined with the first Factories and Dyes produced Cheap Cloth, a major Gold-Producing manufactured Good that really spurred the growth of the English Trade Empire of the 18th century.

In other words, I'd like to see at last as much Accumulative Necessity for 'Luxuries' as there is now for Strategic Resources, as a step towards an Economic Overhaul of the game (3rd Expansion or Civ VII, I can be patient).

So, for instance, for an 'Interim' complexity, initially each Point of Resource could apply an Amenity Bonus to 1 City. Cities with a population of, say, 6 or more would require 2 points (exact numbers to be determined by testing, ideally), 12+ population 3, etc.
If you have a seacoast literally crawling with Turtles, every Population Point in your civilization might be feasting on Turtle Soup, but more likely each city would have a slightly different 'mix' of amenity-producing Resources.

I would even make it possible for you (possibly with a given Civic or Policy Card) to purposely 'withhold' some amount of Luxuries so they could be used for Trade (or bribes!) instead of keeping your people happy/Loyal.

All of which would provide much more flexibility to the Trade system, as you would now be, like Strategic resources, trading specific amounts of Amenity Resources in the same way - a batch of 1 'point' or more at a time, or a continuous number of points per turn, and, frankly, if you were providing a considerable number of points of Luxuries per turn to a Civ, it might be very dangerous to that Civ to attack you and temporarily cut off the supply, especially if he's got a bunch of 15 - 20 population cities and few Luxury/Amenity resources of his own. That, in turn, beefs up the Diplomacy system a bit, since Bribery With Amenities becomes a much more (potentially) Lucrative process, and withholding or offering Amenity Resources by quantity should garner a Civ some major positive attitudes even from the schizophrenic AI.

I like your ideas on this, and I can see it really all this being incorporated into an economic victory condition [with corporations, actually manufacturing products (which could also affect culture victory depending on the product - blue jeans?), etc.] Until further fleshed out, I'd still like to see it basically take on the same mechanic as strategics, and with you idea of trading a group or x per turn, like can currently be done with gold.
 
One of the mods in CiV I think it was, allowed for strategic resources to be used for other things once they were no longer 'strategic' - don't remember if it was a race track, per se, but I played with this mod and liked it.



I like your ideas on this, and I can see it really all this being incorporated into an economic victory condition [with corporations, actually manufacturing products (which could also affect culture victory depending on the product - blue jeans?), etc.] Until further fleshed out, I'd still like to see it basically take on the same mechanic as strategics, and with you idea of trading a group or x per turn, like can currently be done with gold.

Not to hijack the Thread, but I posted at length on my ideas for an Economic Expansion before GS which included my ideas on Resources, Corporations, Manufactured amenities and other topics. Just for you information, see The Next Expansion: a Few Suggestions

Even after GS, there isn't a lot I would change in those posts, at least as Starting Points for a discussion of an Economic Victory/set of game components.
 
What if we had lots of additional-& existing-buildings that could consume various stockpiled resources in order to convert them into some other beneficial item/yield? So, as an example a Jewelers might consume 5 units per turn of gold/silver/gemstones-& produce +2 gold & +2 culture per turn, for every resource consumed. Likewise, a Bank Building could get enhanced Gold Generating abilities if you have stockpiles of Copper, Silver & Gold. Going back to strategic resources, Workshops could consume Niter & Iron in return for a production boost from that building type. Factories could consume Niter, Iron & Coal to also get a production boost. Arenas could consume Horse resources to grant an Amenity Bonus & a Gold Bonus from that Building. Aquariums could consume Fish & Crabs to do likewise.

Anyway, just an idea.
 
What if we had lots of additional-& existing-buildings that could consume various stockpiled resources in order to convert them into some other beneficial item/yield? So, as an example a Jewelers might consume 5 units per turn of gold/silver/gemstones-& produce +2 gold & +2 culture per turn, for every resource consumed. Likewise, a Bank Building could get enhanced Gold Generating abilities if you have stockpiles of Copper, Silver & Gold. Going back to strategic resources, Workshops could consume Niter & Iron in return for a production boost from that building type. Factories could consume Niter, Iron & Coal to also get a production boost. Arenas could consume Horse resources to grant an Amenity Bonus & a Gold Bonus from that Building. Aquariums could consume Fish & Crabs to do likewise.

Anyway, just an idea.

Just a Good Idea. This ties in neatly with something I've posted about before (see link in Post above): replacing Natural Amenities with Manufactured Amenities. Since the Industrial Revolution the majority of 'amenity' or comfort-producing products have been manufactured: cheap clothing instead of 'raw' wool or cotton, personal automobiles, consumer electronics and, earlier, home appliances, artificial dyes taking the place of 'natural' dyes, etc. As the game finally indicates in the possible World Congress Edicts, Natural Resources actually get banned or restricted now in the late game, as Ivory, Whale products, wild Furs are in The Real World.

So, yes:
Iron/Steel could be used to build Personal Automobiles in Factories (Aluminum is another possible Raw Material) which use Oil, but provide both a 'native' amenity and also a lucrative Trade Good. - and good provide a 'boost' to the conversion of Roads into the Final Upgrade in the game.
Coal could also be 'raw material' for Coal Tar Dyes, the first 'class' of artificial dyes, in the Industrial Era.
Niter is also a raw material for fertilizer as well as gunpowder: use 'extra' amounts to augment farms' Food Output.
Silver and Gold were both Monetary Standards, and Silver has been the primary circulating' material for coins since the Classical Era. Having copious supplies should boost both Markets and Banks and possibly Trade Routes as well.
Build Factories and have access to Cotton or Sheep (Wool) should allow your Factories to crank out Cheap Cloth and Clothing - if you also have Dyes, natural or artificial, the value goes up: the British East India Company made its (first) fortune on dyed cotton cloth and clothing, and the Textile Industry, as much as anything, 'fueled' the British Trade Empire of the late 18th - early 19th centuries.
And, of course, Personal Electronics, although not requiring great quantities of natural resources, should be a massive source of Amenity and Trade good in the last two Eras of the game. . . Not to mention the 'Intellectual Property' connected to the devices and more 'mass outlet' devices: what's the value of movies, electronic entertainment media like TV shows and video games world-wide?
 
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