Help! Barbarian Axemen!

[Sloth Bear]

I've just started playing and I think I can move past Noble once I figure out how to deal with this problem.

When I don't have copper, I cringe every time I see barbarian Axemen. They come in groups and tear up my border defenses and pillage my resources and prevent expansion.

How can I fight barbarian axemen when I don't have any to throw back at them?

 

[Murky]

If you don't have copper go for Iron Working so you can build axemen.

If you don't have either Iron or Copper, go for Archery and Horseback Riding for Horse Archers. The are strength 6 and can easily defeat axemen on open ground.

Archer's in cities on a hilltop with a few promotions can also defeat them.

 

[Sloth Bear]

Sorry, I should have said this is for when I don't have any Iron either.

Fortified archers in cities dont' do much to keep my workers or resources safe.

I'll try for horse archers then. The problem is keeping my horses defended long enough to build any

 

[Murky]

Another thing is how quickly are you exploring and expanding?

I usually don't have any problems getting either copper or iron in by the time my 2nd or 3rd city is founded.

 

[Sisiutil]

Along the way to the very expensive Horseback Riding is Animal Husbandry for horses and Chariots. The latter may be sufficient for your initial barb-thumping needs.

Granted, Chariots are weaker than Axes (4 instead of 5), but they're cheap. Build several of them--at least two per city--and as they fight and win, give them Combat I and then Shock for a bonus against Melee units (like Axes). If they die, attack the weakened barb immediately with another one, and then replace the lost unit ASAP.

Remember to wait until the barbs are on open ground (not on hills or in jungle/forests) and on the Chariots' side of a river before attacking, to make sure they're not getting any defensive bonuses and thus increasing the Chariot's chance of success.

I've been able to defend myself from Barbs very ably with Chariots, so much so that HBR is usually unnecessary.

As for Archers--why leave all of them in your cities? Give a few of them Guerilla and/or Woodsman promotions. Fortify them in appropriate spots (Guerillas on hills, Woodsmen in forests, duh) on the edge of your territory, wherever the barbs are coming from. The barbs will likely attack them and not your resources, and the barbs will almost always die, since the Archers have a bonus from the promotion, the terrain, and fortification. They'll also push back the fog and reduce the number of barbs getting generated.

 

[Kavatar]

Chariots in Warlords have +100% strength when attacking axemen. They are the axemen killers. Be warned that the bonus only applies when they do the attacking, though.

 

[Corporal Kindel]

One thing that helps, that I've noticed, is to do your best to minimize the amount of grey & black (unseen) tiles around your cities. The barbarians always come from these tiles, so if you only have archers & warriors you can put them out on hilltops where they see the most tiles (pushing back the grey). And, then when the barbarians come, they'll be further away & you'll have more time to react by moving around some extra troops (which hopefully you have in reserve).

I've noticed that it's best to be in defense against axemen. Try to fortify an archer or warrior on a jungle hilltop. Usually, you should be able to get a couple of guys with two forest promotions. Fortify him on a woods hilltop and he's a major defense force. I've seen warriors with two jungle promotions defending a forest hilltop beat barbarian axemen, and you can't beat that double jungle move for exploration. Lastly, the double jungleers really come in handy around 500AD or so (when everyond is on swordsmen) & before everone has chopped all the jungles around the border land, when you need a speedy strong unit to react to an AI attack.

I've had many double jungleers inflict serious carnage on an AI attacking forces (even killing up to four consecutive attackers before finally dying) when defending on forested hilltops. They're awseome.

 

[pigswill]

No iron or copper. Best bet may be archers just outside your borders on wooded hills with geurilla promotion(s).

 

[Sloth Bear]

Murky - I *usually* don't have a problem getting Iron or copper either, I'm asking about the situations where there is none on my map area to get.

Kavatar - No Warlords, just Vanilla.

Sisiutl - I never leave archers in cities. I was responding to a suggestion that I should. Also,maybe I just have bad luck but when I have one or two new axemen coming at me every turn I can't fight them off with chariots, and my fortiifed archers get slaughtered by axemen (even if they are on hills, I don't seem to have as many jungle hills as are required for some strategies mentioned). I'm also playing marathon speed so even the cheap units take awhile to make. Alos, in my experience barbs usually go for pillaging whenever they can.

Well...so far everyone has pretty much suggested what I do anyay. I think the best suggestion has been to go for horse archers asap. I think that's pretty sound. Unless I end up in a situation where I have no Copper, Iron or Horses lol. Thankfully that's never happened so far.

Hmm. Time for more civving. Thanks for all the help everyone

 

[yavoon]

go in this order:
axemen
elephants
horse archer
catapult
archer
warrior
scout

no swordsmen/spear because its impossible to be able to build swords/spears and not be able to build axes.

 

[gdgrimm]

Vanilla CivIV. No copper or iron?

You'll just have to accept that you won't be handling the Barbs very well.

Build walls in your cities (Archers with CGI behind walls should keep your city secure). Fortify an Archer on improved special resources. But realize that if it's on flatland, they'll probably lose the battle and you'll need a Chariot to finish off what's left of the Barb (and get another Archer to put back in place).

HA's are nice, but they still have trouble killing Barb Axemen who are hanging out on hills or in forests. They'll be better than Archers when defending special resources on open terrain, but they're pretty costly to be used in that role. And defending resources on hills, the HA's aren't much better than Archers.

So unless you have a lot of open ground, you'll find HA's aren't much more useful for Barb Axemen than Chariots -- and chariots are much cheaper and don't require a tech that is "dead end" until the Medieval era.

On a slightly different note.....

If you're in this situation, you should be bee-lining to Feudalism and/or Gunpowder, since that's the only way you'll be able to handle the other AI's. And Longbowmen will solve the Barb problem (well, unless they start showing up with HA's).

 

[Murky]

Just an idea that I haven't tried is to lower your research enough so you can trade for copper or iron with the AI just a few turns so you can produce some axemen. Cancel the deal after the time limit expires. By then you should have enough axemen to counter the barbarian threat.

 

[Zilch]

In situations like this I post Archers on hills or in forests and have horse (chariot or HA) backup. I try and chop forest around my post so that the barbs can't use that.
This means that I can either get the barbs to attack a fortified archer or hit them on open ground with the horses.

 

[AndrewN]

Archers and (if you have horses) charriots are the solution. A barracks is essential in your capital, a single promotion makes a huge difference.

The thing to remember in both cases is do not attack, let the axemen attack you.

For archers with a single promotion, take combat 1, Guerilla 1 or Woodsman 1. If you do the numbers and have the archer fortified in the correct place then they will normally defeat an axeman. Remember you get a bonus in fighing barbarians at the easier levels.

Simimarly a chariot with combat 1 will win if you force the axeman to attack over a river, although charriots don't get defensive bonuses they do get the river bonus.

In any case you shouldn't really be using axemen to attack axemen as it is just a 50-50 shot and probably a waste of hammers.

The other solution is the one I use a fair bit, let the axemen pillage, eventually he will attack your city and lose badly to the defending archer, then just repair the damage. This may be more efficient use of resources than fighting the axeman in the first place. In the early game, if you are improving too many squares then you are wasting your time, go and improve a second city.