[BTS] Help me beat Deity

[Fippy]

Hmm..starting Axe rush planning on turn ~70 would ofc be very late,
and i would want more scouting info for sure (are those cities worth the trouble?).

Boudi settled a hill city close, and Peter jungle..not exactly tempting
They will most likely have walls already or soon in most cities.

SE cows could make a decent gp spot later (settled on green hill), by taking 1 cap clams.
Also floodplains maybe while cap will have too much food before Monarchy.

Better than sheep spot for sure currently, but ofc Boudi might settle there if you wait too long.
Sheep city would be much better with wheat added, Akkad be fine with 4 floodplains,
but settling on a lonely forest looks painful too lol..not a great posi overall in that corner.

You were given a rather dull map, no specials like marble, stone or gold / gems.
Could Axe rush for funsies as SnB wrote, and call it quits if you fail..
not like you want hard deity maps i guess, this one is easily above average diff (any NC game should be easier).

 

[Gumbolt]

Yes I suspect that Celt city is covered in jungle and forest. Hill tiles would be a pain. I could whip the capital from 6-3 for this.

Downside to this is I could also do with a GS. Albeit I could try and whip new city from 6-3 in many turns time. Allowing capital to focus on cottages.
There is land SW of the sheep but hard to scout without settling on the sheep and a border pop.
There is a further barb city next to the Russians. Again likely a poor city but could provide gold. I have 4 axes for this but most are in dire need of healing.

So currently teching aesth. I really have no plan on this front. Albeit I can trade this hopefully once AI have alphabet?

What is plan here? I really don't want to be stuck on 5 cities. Maybe a axe/pult rush could work? The nearby land is far from great. Finishing aesth could still be useful. Then trade for techs and save gold for construction? How quickly would the AI get feud?

Axes alone would need a lot of luck vs hill cities. Against axes in cities it's even harder.

So axe (8-10) vs axe/pult or try for something else?

 

[Fippy]

With AIs expanding fast on deity, you can expect getting either horsies or Jumbos via trade later.
More cities, more resis for trade.
Getting connected always has high priority for info.

Axe rush would be suicidal fun at this point prolly,
for serious tries i would finish Aest (good for trading yup), and use construction.
Even if no Jumbos for trade (but happens often on maps with jungle), agg metal units should be good enuf with Cats.
Settling cows, but skipping sheep.

 

[Gumbolt]

Hmmmm not going too well now.
I have traded for alphabet with JoaII.
Celts are in war mode. I am 99% likely the target. I forgot I didn't have AH. Lost corn to Celt culture. Celts have traded for mehmeds ivory. Hmmm.

I still have those 4 axes to defend my borders with. I can trade for various techs here. Most AI need alphabet and Aesth.

Would I really get construction before Celts come knocking on my door?

 

[Fippy]

Get out while you still are sane
(game looks lost, as mentioned it's not a map you want for learning deity, no shame in losing)

Details..yup Boudi plots on you, should find her stack somewhere close soon.
Ofc this means an axe rush would also have failed.

You could defend, agg Axes are good enuf for that (would urgently need ~2 spears too), but you would die a slow death later cos you are badly developed.

 

[Swordnboard]

Yep, no shame in calling it quits here. Nobody will war with boudica, even for aesth + alpha, so a loss seems inevitable.

Lack of religion really hurt us here. I notice we don't have OB with peter in the 1240 BC save (he isn't the worst enemy of anyone so it would have been harmless), maybe could have given us a chance at getting juda before it is too late, then again maybe not. This also makes defending in the hopes of cheesing out with an AP win a lot less likely.

This start is probably quite a bit above average difficulty (no commerce resources, seafood start w/o fishing, generally poor land, traits, neighbors, etc.).

 

[Fippy]

I looked a bit more, and you could give Boudi tech(s) for pleased, then try begging something cheap (no currency yet so not gold, but hunting or so). No guarantee that she would not knock after10t, but worth trying.

But overall it's not why i would quit here, as SnB added (and me earlier too) you were given a rather poor map and will not have much fun with this one imo.
Experienced deity players could turn this around i think, getting attacked by an AI is often not neck breaking cos they will suicide their units on strong defenders usually (gets more dangerous with siege).
But while learning, it will very much feel like running against walls.

 

[Gumbolt]

Played on a bit. Then this happened. Going for the barb city first? Or attacking someone else? 2 turns from construction.

I could probably beg archery from Celts if I really wanted.

I switched religion but Ottoman is now plotting.

We have iron.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay so the change was merely due to culture and Celts were about to declare. Lost a warrior. Stack wiped out by axes. I fear a second army is also heading my way.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay war with Celts went okay but she just keeps spamming units. I have managed to take a border city but I think a ceasefire is needed. Lost a pult follishly.

She is willing to talk but wants aesthics. (Even after losing a city!) . Won't be long before Ottoman arrives.

Fighting a losing battle?

Switching religions here could proveto have been fatal.

Hold on Russians are willing to stop trading with Mehmed! Plan!!

Peace for Aesthetics seems wise with Celts? She still has a lot of units wondering.

I will pause for thoughts!

Probably should of begged from Celts instead of trying war. Same for Ottoman. Both wars could of at least been delayed.

 

[Fippy]

Well done, get Jumbos from Mehmed and tech HBR
Switch out of Juda, and give him a tech if needed for pleased (can also beg for safety when done, but would wait if he actually arrives).
Happy can be gained via trades, Juda not needed.

Making Peter to stop trading with him would not be needed anymore then, pleased is more important for those Jumbos.
What are we doing with them, well i think you should attack Boudi with a stronger stack after 10t peace (or when ready).

Maybe we were too pessimistic early, if you can take her cities it's not looking that bad for land and power.

 

[Gumbolt]

Uhoh. Here comes trouble. 14 strong stack outside Russian border.

I need monarchy too.

Would of been easier to bribe Russians to close borders. As Ottoman will wait 10 turns.

Never say die!

Should I be trading for techs here? I could try to beg myst!

 

[Fippy]

Did you try begging some gold from him?
If it works, you can see if his stack turns around. Mehmed cannot plot at pleased, so if they turn around you would be safe (and making Peter close borders would be luxury or for other reasons).

Yep try now, stack almost there.

No good trades currently, Calendar useless..would wait if somebody has a nice amount of gold before giving more away.
Yup we want Monarchy, but trading for myst..such a small tech adding to wfyabta, i would say nope.

Get barracks where missing them before more units, for 25h they are too cheap to skip.

Are you sure they will not turn back soon?
Would wait at least 2-3 turns before making another Anarchy switch.
He has another target in Bismarck.

GS for Philo bulb i think, big trade chip later.
Cap not good enuf for Academy.

zzzZZZzzz now for me

 

[Gumbolt]

Peter will no longer close borders as not pleased. I don't want to gift the AI too many techs here. Ottoman can be begged as pleased. Do I wait till at my border or do it now?

Nope still heading my way! After bribe.

6 more follow up units. So 20 overall. I could switch back into Jud. Get Russians back to pleased. I have the ivory anyway.

I still have a GS to use.

Good point on barracks.

Right now his 20 strong stack will just roam and attack after 10 turns.

I doubt they will. Catch 22. I could of kept them out using Russians but I would of never got ivory.

 

[krikav]

This map can't be THAT hard, this was the first diety map I ever won. I did however replay the early game quite a few times.
Cudos to gumbolt for keeping it up! An early dow would make me cave in.

 

[Gumbolt]

Will pause here as this game is moving away from me now. Many Ai now have fuedalism. Got an AI with a 20 or so strong stack roaming my land waiting to delcare. Eakkk.

Yeah probably not that hard but I have had 2x dow. (1 in waiting.) Being forced into Celt war prevented me from building up my usual stack.

I should not of held back units for Ottoman either during Celt war.

Need open borders with him for phants now. Ned to remember when I demanded peace.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think not getting Russia to close borders with Mehmed was likely a mistake. I am now just chasing Mehmed units roaming round a map.AI rarely stop war mode unless you have a military advantage. It might of been better to let him attack and at least then I could prepare for Celts.

I have certainly seen this before where the AI just loiters.

 

[Gumbolt]

Okay replayed from 275bc.
This time got Russians to stop trading with Ottoman and took a tech and gold.
Bribed Germans on Celts.
Switched out of religion and took ivory but gave Ottoman currency.
Few turns in and Mehmed has just declared on Russians.

Clearly played this game half asleep last night.

 

[sampsa]

Damn, that army of axes is costing you a ton. Of course, if you could get lots of cats quickly they would be very useful mop up troops. Not sure if I liked going aesth earlier, I mean I understand that you can get trades for it but I'd just aim to get construction directly OR aim to play peacefully until cuirs/cannons. I guess if you were 100% certain to get maths for aesth it's a good play. Two workboats almost certainly a mistake as you can't use all the food anyway with low -cap. Nice cottageable land btw so just going peacefully with 6-7 cities seems great to me. Guess I'll play.

 

[Gumbolt]

I think the problem was Celts went war mode. Needed to get them to pleased. It should of been a lot easier than I have made it. Taking down Celts has suddenly become a big resource drain.

Delaying the Celt war earlier on would of been a much better gambit. Poor mistake early on fighting a war I could of delayed. 100% science and barely 120 beakers at 250 ad. Shocking compared to my normal games. Still adjusting to Deity Ai stacks.

Looking at latest save I have 8-9 very poorly developed cities with few workers.