Help me date this world map

Lotus49 said:
There's several countries south of Afghanistan on the coast - don't ask me what they are.

Presumably Baluchistan and Gwadar (a port owned by Oman)

The Russia/China/Mongolia area is too hard to describe, but suffice it to say that it looks very little like it does in modern times.

It APPEARS that Russia has already 'acquired' it's far-eastern lands from the "Chinese Empire" (that hook that comes down and touches Korea)

Probably because before 1864 the area on the eastern coast of Lake Balkhash, Kazakhstan was part of China. Russia acquired through an unequal treaty. As for the "hook" (Ussuri region) Russia got it in 1860.

So it's safe to say that the map was between 1860 - 1863, after China lost Ussuri and before the aquisition of Lake Balkhash by Russia and before "Confederacion Granadina" (which is close enough to "New Granada") changed its name to "Colombia".
 
Lotus49 said:
There's several countries south of Afghanistan on the coast - don't ask me what they are.

Presumably Baluchistan and Gwadar (a port owned by Oman)

The Russia/China/Mongolia area is too hard to describe, but suffice it to say that it looks very little like it does in modern times.

It APPEARS that Russia has already 'acquired' it's far-eastern lands from the "Chinese Empire" (that hook that comes down and touches Korea)

Probably because before 1864 the area on the eastern coast of Lake Balkhash, Kazakhstan was part of China. Russia acquired through an unequal treaty. As for the "hook" (Ussuri region) Russia got it in 1860.

So it's safe to say that the map was between 1860 - 1863, after China lost Ussuri and before the aquisition of Lake Balkhash by Russia and before "Confederacion Granadina" (which is close enough to "New Granada") changed its name to "Colombia".

Edit: sorry for double post
 
Lotus49 said:
The United States of Central America appears to have already broken up - the borders look more like modern-day central America... but, they are hard to see. It could be the map is just showing State borders. But I don't see the USCA name anywhere. Forget about this - it's too tough to see. I now realize I can't make anything out in central America.

The Ottoman Empire controls all of what is now Iraq, Syria, and maybe part of Jordan. Egypt seems to have some other areas, like Lebanon, Palestine, but, it's really hard to read those details, in the Holy land.
These two items really narrow it down.

This, however, is an easy one. The USCA broke up in 1838-1840 and the Ottoman-Egyptian War of that ended in 1841 redefined the Turks' borders in their favor (with the Turks gaining Lebanon, Palestine, etc.) so it had to be between that period.

Of course, the conflicting reports I'm reading from other users might indicate to me that you're full of baloney and/or parts of the map were horribly out of date. :p
 
is carbon 14 dating expensive?? if not you could use the technique
 
If Greece is a part of the Ottoman Empire, then it is definetely pre-1830.
 
willemvanoranje said:
So does Lotus actually know the answer?

Unknown. It's real possible. He could have googled most of the details he told us about himself, or the map had a production date. Not everyone gets away from Civ IV often enough to do it, though. ;) (Of course all the research he could have done while typing up the original post would have given him the answer if he knows how to effectively google... I actually double checked all my research results on the posts above with two independent websites each in 15-30 minutes tops, though I failed to follow up on the manchuria/new grenada problem that was pushing the map later than my first time frame result (work is more important than even a video game forum).

I am now convinced that it is most likely a US Civil War era map because of the Russia/China detail and no Colombia. Seeing the map would be more fun. The New Grenada had me sticking with 1850s, though, until taillesskangaru pointed out that Grenadina was close. I was being stickler. I forgot about today's maps. Myanmar changed but the map still says Burma sometimes. Now the older name won't give me an upper bound the same way that a change that didn't exist before does for a lower bound (Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo for example).
 
I don't know the date, although its starting to sound like a Civil War-era map. Maybe you should go on antique road show ;)

I know I speak for most people here when I say that it would be awsome to see this map :D
 
I'll babble randomly...

No, I don't know what the correct date is. This thing had been in a relative's attic for who knows how long, and I'm not sure what it's origin is... though in all likelyhood it's U.S.-made. I'll explain why I think that...

As others have alluded to, I believe it has some disparities. It's not 'totally up-to-date' in all areas, perhaps. But, one thing of note, is that the borders of the CONUS 48 States is exactly like they are today. Yes, even the Gadsden Purchase, it would seem.

Some more trivial things:

I noticed Argentina is actually 'Argentine Republic', and that's only applicable to the upper ~2/3rds maybe of the current Argentina. The rest is labeled as 'Patagonia'. There appears to be a border between the two, but tough to tell. That's the thing about this map, it's so faded, the only colors you can easily distinguish are the political/national boundary areas that were some kind of purple-ish color, once upon a time. The rest are pretty faded, so it's tough to distinguish sometimes, especially around areas where there's a whole bunch of rivers that can confuse the lines of the national borders (that's why I didn't bother going into SE Asia in my description - rivers galore in that area).

Also, I noticed - instead of 'Oceania' (Aus, NZ, East Indies, etc.), the map calls it "Oceanica". Must be the old name for it. I'd never heard of that before.

"India" - The label actually extends into Burma, Thailand (though Siam is on there, smaller) Laos, Vietnam... it's almost like they're calling "India" a sub-continent.

(What is now ) the modern India is clearly labeled "Hindosian"... right above the larger, bolder "INDIA" that extends way into SE Asia. So maybe they're trying to say (modern) India is Hindosian India, via that labeling technique.

China (like Russia), there is a 'core country' in their "Empire", which is a distinctly different color from their other major colonies/holdings, even though they may be contiguous with the heartland of the empire. But yeah, "CHINESE EMPIRE" covers a big area, but "CHINA" (slightly smaller, and less bolded) is the lighter-colored area that makes up.... eh, about 35-40% of the overall empire. But there's a bunch of other lands within the empire.

^Just like Russia... the area that is distictly labeled as Russia, is between Prussia/Austria, and the Urals.

Japan = "Japan Islands". How eloquent. :hmm:

There's something west of Tibet, definitely part of China today, starts with a "BO...", can't make it out.

When you get to the central Asian countries, it's difficult to tell what's independent, and what isn't. Between the large "TOORKISTAN", and Chinese Empire, there maybe some stuff in there, but frankly, the border between the former USSR and China is one of the toughest areas on the map for me to describe.

Itlay - I know was fragmented poltically once upon a time in this era. On the map, it's just labeled as Italy (though even that is tough to read, because of the mountains), no evidence of a whole host of sub-states.

"Soudan" is written fairly large, centered about where current Niger is (just south of "Sahara or Great Desert") , much farther west than where I think of Sudan being today, south of Egypt.

DAR-FUR!! -Hey, look at that, that's what they're calling Lake Chad. -The lake, btw, is too large, and is basically circular (though not nearly as badly depicted as Lake Victoria as mentioned earlier (though I don't think it's called L.V., it's some long name I can't quite make out).

Holy Crap... just north of (what is now known as) Lake Victoria, basically everything between the two lakes I've just mentioned, save the coasts... it says "UNEXPLORED", covering a pretty large area of the continent obviously. That's awesome. :lol:

Guinea, and Lower Guinea, pretty much cover the area from the Skeleton Coast, all the way up to near the current Guinea location. Within this area, there are other smaller names (perhaps indicating tribal nations, heck if I know) along the way, names like Mbina and a bunch of others that are too 'native' to be able to successfully guess, if you can't quite make them out. As for the (modern) Ivory Coast, Liberia, etc. area - there's plenty (maybe half-dozen) of destinct countries in there (each w/ their own color), west and northwest of the larger "Guinea" areas. I'll attempt to make out one of the larger ones: senegambia. (thanks to Google for helping me finally figure that one out, after about 10 minutes of trying)

The only things I can make out in (modern) Indonesia are Sumatra, Malaya, and Borneo - no surprising names here I guess.

Anyway, it would seem like the USA is more up-to-date, versus other things that we know should have happened already prior to the Gadsden Purchase, that's what made me curious to take on the challenge to accurately date it. And I have no scanner, unfortunately (otherwise I'd have used it to begin with). Oh yeah - and no indication of the ACW going on. It just says "UNITED STATES". But, it could have been made in the North, which wasn't recognizing the rebels.

Now, my eyes are crossed, and I must retire for a while...
 
Hindosian is probably Hindostan or Hindustan.
 
Lotus49 said:
There's something west of Tibet, definitely part of China today, starts with a "BO...", can't make it out.

Bokhara?

Itlay - I know was fragmented poltically once upon a time in this era. On the map, it's just labeled as Italy (though even that is tough to read, because of the mountains), no evidence of a whole host of sub-states.

By 1861 Italy was unified, although the annexation of Venetia and the Papal States will have to wait a few more years.

I still stand by my estimate of 1861 - 1863.
 
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