Help need for timeline from -2200 BC to 1820 AD

[Steph]

I have found a new way to mod civilization III, with evolutive civs and more than 4 eras.

So I'm working on the design of the next version of my mod based on this principle.

With this, a civilization can change when it reaches a new era:
- The name, leader name, traits, military leaders, etc can change. So in ancient time, you can play as Gaul with Vercingetorix, and when reaching medieval time you become France with Saint Louis.
- The name of the era, when going to the science screen, is dependant on the civilization. With Egypt you would see "New Kingdom", while with China you would see "Zhou dynasty".
- I'm using flag as leaderheads.

So, now that I have the technical possibility to do this, I would nee help with the historical reference.

I have started to do this for France and China, you can see my template here.

Ancient and medieval
Renaissance and Napoleonic

Ultimately, the mod will also add the modern eras.

Now, if you are interested to help, I would need for each era and each civ, starting with the Europeans (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Iberia, Russia, Scandinavia, Hellas), the following information:
- Name of the civilization
- Name of the era
- Name and title of the leader
- 1-3 military leaders and/or scientist
- A reference picture that I would use as a flag, or for the most ancient era a symbol suitable to represent the civilization.

Of course, for the leaders it's not possible to have something that correspond to the whole of the period, so I used something representative, and here it is generally a little arbitrary.

Regarding the flag, it is possible to have the same picture for several eras.

The rule of thumb here is that if a name or a picture does not fit well with the civilization, then it should be changed.

For instance, for France, I could use the same Fleur de Lys flag from th Mérovingians to Louis XVI. It's not always perfect, but it doesn't seem strange. While I cannot use it for the Gaul or the Napoleonic era!

I'll update the page on the website regularly with your contributions.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Tee Kay]

Steph, I'm going to take the liberty of listing all the eras from your links here for easier reference:

Early Bronze age (-2200 to -1200)
Late Bronze age (-1200 to -800)
Early Iron age (-800 to -250)
Late Iron age (-250 to 300 AD)
Dark ages (300 AD to 600 AD)
Early middle ages (600 AD to 900 AD)
High Middle age (900 AD to 1200 AD)
Late Middle age (1200 AD to 1450 AD)
Renaissance (1450 AD to 1550 AD)
16th century (1550 AD to 1650 AD) (I'd rename this the "Gunpowder Age")
17th century (1650 AD to 1720 AD) (I'd rename this the "Age of Commerce")
Early 18th (1720 AD to 1760 AD) (I'd rename this the "Colonial Age")
Late 18th (1760 AD to 1790 AD) (I'd rename this the Enlightenment)
Napoleonic wars (1790 AD to 1820 AD)

 

[Steph]

Thanks. The name here are not ver important, as each civilization can have its own name for each era.

 

[Steph]

69 read, no answer... No one is interested? No one with enough knowledge? Or are you just preparing a huge answer?

 

[Traitorfish]

I could give Britain a crack...

Beaker Culture (-2200 to -1200) - Lleu Llaw Gyffes of Albion. Leaders: ?
Wessex Culture (-1200 to -800) - Pwyll of Albion. Leaders: ?
Atlantic Bronze Culture (-800 to -250) - Cassibelanus of Albion. Leaders: ?
La Tène Culture (-250 to 300 AD) - Caratacus of Albion. Leaders: Calgacus,
Sub-Roman Period (300 AD to 600 AD) - Ælle of Angland. Leaders: Vortigern, Ambrosius Aurelianus.
Anglo-Saxon Period (600 AD to 900 AD) - Alfred the Great of Angland. Leaders: Æthelstan of Wessex, Kenneth MacAlpin, Harald Godwinson,
Early Plantagenet Period (900 AD to 1200 AD) - Henry II of England. Leaders: Richard the Lionheart.
Late Plantagenet Period (1200 AD to 1450 AD) - Henry V of England. Leaders: Edward Longshanks, Owain Glyndŵr, Robert Bruce.
Tudor Period (1450 AD to 1550 AD) - Henry VII of England. Leaders: ?
Reformation (1550 AD to 1650 AD) - Elizabeth II of England. Leaders: Francis Drake.
Carolingian Period(1650 AD to 1720 AD) - Charles II of Great Britain. Leaders: Oliver Cromwell, Robert Blake, John Churchill
Early Hanoverian Period(1720 AD to 1760 AD) - George I of Great Britain. Leaders: James Wolfe.
Late Hanoverian Period (1760 AD to 1790 AD) - George III of Great Britain. Leaders: William Howe.
Regency Period (1790 AD to 1820 AD) - George IV of Great Britain. Leaders: Arthur Wellesley, Horatio Nelson.

The first two faction leaders are figures from Welsh mythology, but they're the only sufficiently ancient Britons I could dig up; I suspect that this is something that may be necessary in cultures which do not enter written history until relatively late. I'm also unsure what flag you use for them, but something including the Ddraig Goch or "Red Dragon", an ancient symbol of the Britons, would work.
Tried to spread the leaders across Britain as a whole, although that does give you a few oddities, like Robert the Bruce serving "England". Just thought that it might be better to try and represent as much of our complicated little splatter of a nation as I could...

[Still working on the leaders... That's as many as I could figure out right now. Give it another shot later, I guess.]

 

[Dachs]

Hey, what am I here for if not Greeks?

Mykenai: Helladic era(-2200 to -1200) - Wanax Agamemnon. Leaders: Minos, Achilleus, Nestoros. Symbol: Stylized "Mask of Agamemnon"? Rhyton?
Hellas: Geometric era (-1200 to -800) - Wanax Orestes. Leaders: Doreios, Homeros, Hesiodos. Symbol: Stylized representation of humans on a typical Geometric amphora? (I recognize that most of the leader names are kind of 'off' for this era, like calling Homer and Hesiod 'scientists'; since it doesn't fit well into any Greek period except the so-called dark age, I don't really care. )
Hellas: Classical era (-800 to -350) - Archon Perikles. Leaders: Themistokles, Aristoteles, Epaminondas. Symbol: I think it'd be kinda cool to draw the Varvakeion Athene as though it were on a red-figure vase.
Makedonia: Hellenistic era (-350 to 300 AD) - Basileus Megas Alexandros. Leaders: Antigonos, Philippos, Zenon. Symbol: Vergina Sun.
Byzantion: Early Byzantine era (300 AD to 600 AD) - Basileus Ioustinianos. Leaders: Maurikios, Belisarios, Narses. Symbol: Labaron.
Byzantion: Iconoclastic era (600 AD to 900 AD) - Basileus Herakleios. Leaders: Leon o Mathematikos, Nikephoros I, Basileios I. Symbol: Probably best to use the labaron again.
Byzantion: Middle Byzantine era (900 AD to 1200 AD) - Basileus Basileios II Boulgaroktonos. (If you wanted to be correct but incoherent, call him 'Porphyrogennetos' instead of 'Boulgaroktonos'. Nobody called him 'Bulgar-slayer' until centuries after he was dead.) Leaders: Alexios Komnenos, Nikephoros Phokas, Ioannes Tzimiskes. Symbol: the labaron again.
Byzantion: Late Byzantine era (1200 AD to 1450 AD) - Basileus Michael VIII Palaiologos. Leaders: Konstantinos Palaiologos, Georgios Gemistos Plethon ("scientist"), Ioannes Kantakouzenos. Symbol: 15th-century Palaiologos flag.

I am totally lost on these:
Renaissance (1450 AD to 1550 AD)
16th century (1550 AD to 1650 AD) (I'd rename this the "Gunpowder Age")
17th century (1650 AD to 1720 AD) (I'd rename this the "Age of Commerce")
Early 18th (1720 AD to 1760 AD) (I'd rename this the "Colonial Age")
Late 18th (1760 AD to 1790 AD) (I'd rename this the Enlightenment)
Napoleonic wars (1790 AD to 1820 AD)

 

[Steph]

Thanks for the help!

I may not use it directly, as there some compromise to do regarding existing units that should fit, but it is very helpful.

I must say I'm also very perplex regarding Greek after renaissance. And I'm tempted to do something very drastic...
Like remove Greece from the game when you reach this era, and replace them with Austria.

 

[Dachs]

That is pretty drastic, and not particularly fair to players who play as Greece and who're doing just fine, thank you in ~1450. I suppose one could hack together a 'Hellas' group including people like the Mavrokordatoi...hmm. Requires some more thinking.

 

[Tee Kay]

Germany, Italy, Scandinavia

At any one time there were many states in the region. I'm going to pick the most prominent one for the respective era or what seems to be the most appropriate collective name.

Germany: Germania (Early Bronze to Late Iron) --> Gothia (Dark) --> Alemannia (Early Middle) --> Holy Roman Empire (High Middle to 17th) --> Prussia (Early 18th to Napoleonic)

Italy: Etruria (Early Bronze to Late Bronze) --> Rome (Early Iron to Dark) --> Lombardy (Early Middle to High Middle) --> Venice (Late Middle to Renaissance) --> Naples (16th to Napoleonic)

Scandinavia Norse (to High Middle Ages) --> Kalmar Union (Late Middle to Renaissance) --> Sweden (16th to Napoleonic)

 

[LightSpectra]

France (leaders in bold, military commanders in plain)

Early Bronze age (-2200 to -1200) - n/a
Late Bronze age (-1200 to -800) - n/a
Early Iron age (-800 to -250) - Brennus, Britomaris
Late Iron age (-250 to 300 AD) - Vercingetorix
Low early middle age (300 AD to 600 AD) - Clovis
High early middle age (600 AD to 900 AD) - Charlemagne, Roland
High Middle age (900 AD to 1200 AD) - Philip II Auguste, Robert II de Dreux
Late Middle age (1200 AD to 1450 AD) - St. Louis IX, St. Jeanne d'Arc
Renaissance (1450 AD to 1550 AD) - Francis I, seigneur de Bayard
16th century (1550 AD to 1650 AD) - Louis XIII, Prince de Condé
17th century (1650 AD to 1720 AD) - Louis XIV, Claude de Villars, duc de Berwick
Early 18th (1720 AD to 1760 AD) - Louis XV, Maurice de Saxe
Late 18th (1760 AD to 1790 AD) - Louis XVI, comte de Rochambeau, duc d'Estrées
Napoleonic wars (1790 AD to 1820 AD) - Napoleon Bonaparte, Louis-Nicolas Davout, André Masséna, Jean Lannes

 

[Steph]

Thanks, but France I already did. Not too difficult for me.

But well, you confirmed most of my choices

 

[Lord Baal]

Thanks for the help!

I may not use it directly, as there some compromise to do regarding existing units that should fit, but it is very helpful.

I must say I'm also very perplex regarding Greek after renaissance. And I'm tempted to do something very drastic...
Like remove Greece from the game when you reach this era, and replace them with Austria.

You could use the Phanariots, perhaps?

 

[Steph]

The big problem is the almost total absence of flavour units for Greece. While we have some for Austria. That's why I was thinking about this drastic solution.

I have updated the web pages with some info for France and Britain. I'm still missing some flags, and leaders. And I will have to decide about the traits also.

I should add Greece in the first eras soon.

 

[Dachs]

Flavor units in that period or flavor units in general? Cause I can throw a whole laundry-list of Greek flavor units up to 1461 at you.

 

[Steph]

I have everything I need for the first 8 eras (see link to my website page if you want to see them). It's after 1450 that the flow stops.

 

[Steph]

I have started Russia. If someone want to give feedack for Renaissance to Napoleonic wars (it should be OK).
For ancient and medieval, I stil have may holes left.

 

[Traitorfish]

I must say I'm also very perplex regarding Greek after renaissance. And I'm tempted to do something very drastic...
Like remove Greece from the game when you reach this era, and replace them with Austria.

Wouldn't be unprecedented. Empire Earth and it's not-quite-sequel Empires: Dawn of the Modern World both used a similar faction-switching mechanic between eras, and contained similarly odd changes, none of which were quite as jarring as you might think. Granted, those games, being RTS, lacked the "grand history" sort of feel that Civ goes for, but I don't think it would take much away from the experience.

 

[Steph]

Actually, I take this idea from Europa Universalis, the boardgame, where you start with 6 playable countries: France, England, Spain, Ottoman, Venezia and Portugal, and after some time, Portugal switches to Russia, and Venezia to Netherlands.

And it's already implicite for some other situation, like Aztec --> Mexico or Natives americans --> USA.

In this case, it's a bit different, because the "successor" of Byzance would be the Ottomans in this area, but they are already here has Hittites --> Seldjouk --> Ottomans --> Turkey, or at least they will be a bit later.

My reasonning here was that Byzance it "near" Italy, Turkey, Russia, German empire... And that "position" is then held by Austria.

Possible solutions:
1) Just keep a Greek civilization as "what if" and use Austria looking units. They are white, it would be OK for Greece, and it's not really a big stretch to imagine that if Greece had remained independant, it would have follow the fashion in the rest of Europe and have similar looking units.

2) Remove Turkey from early game, and decide that after Byzance, there are Ottoman units.

3) Keep Turkey in early game, but starting in Renaissance, Turkey and Greece are both using Ottomans units.

4) Greece disappears in Renaissance and Austria takes its place.

 

[Steph]

I have updated the pages of the website for Scandinavia, France, Britain, Russia, Spain, Prussia, and Hellas.

I stil have many holes, but it starts to take shape!

Anyone can help with the holes?

I think 1450+ is relatively well covered (except for Italy), but for the ancien era I don't really know what I should use .

 

[Steph]

Can someone give names of scientist or writer for Ancient Rome? I have the military leaders, but not the scientist.

Two for each period would be ideal.