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Help - Warlord = Easy, Prince = Impossible

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Centerfinger, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Yeah, that's not exactly constructive or helpful. ;)

    For people who haven't played much Civ, or played earlier versions very casually, it shouldn't be surprising. Everyone has different levels of experience and expertise, and if they come to CFC for help, I think it's better to offer assistance than be shocked that they have questions. :p
     
  2. Centerfinger

    Centerfinger Chieftain

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    Well I finally finished my game with Russia on Prince and I walked through it. I could have won by space race around 2020, but went for domination at 2034. Funny thing was that I got a high ranking (Ceasar), which I could never even get close to on Civ4. The extra production with Russia and taking out my closest Civ early set me up pretty good. I allied with every CS and walked circles around everyone. I guess it pays to spend some time reading the forums. It could have been a lucky starting position with Russia and crappy ones the other times I played.

    Here is a screen from my last turn. I wish I knew a better way to capture all the critical info with one SS.

     
  3. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

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    Holy crap, that's some serious domination, man. Guess it's fair to say this game went a little better, huh? :)

    (24k gold with +847 GPT, +1800 science, +400 culture, massive amounts of strategic resources... uhhh, maybe you can give me some tips?? Jesus.)
     
  4. oPunchDrunko

    oPunchDrunko Prince

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    How did you get 15 happiness with all of those cities you've conquered?
     
  5. Centerfinger

    Centerfinger Chieftain

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    Much better than my last 3 tries on Prince. :D

    I would have had a lot more money, but I spent a bunch buying giant death robots, those guys are fun.

    opunchdrunko (sweet name), most of those cities are puppets. I was really careful on which cities I annexed. I pretty much only annexed other civs capitals. Because I had so much cash, I just bought every happy building in every city I owned.
     
  6. OTAKUjbski

    OTAKUjbski TK421

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    I'm not sure how he did it, but for me it's all about Social Policies and The Forbidden Palace:

    The Forbidden Palace. :c5angry: Unhappiness from number of Cities reduced by 50%.

    Meritocracy. +1 :c5happy: for each city you own :c5trade: connected to the :c5capital: Capital.
    Planned Economy. :c5angry: Unhappiness from number of Cities reduced by 50%.
    Freedom. Specialist Population in Cities produce half the normal amount of :c5angry: Unhappiness.
    Theocracy. Reduces :c5angry: Unhappiness from :c5citizen: Citizens in non-occupied Cities by 20%.

    Spoiler +136 :) with 8 cities and 28 Puppets -- total pop 488 (13.5 avg per city) :
    EDIT: While I don't typically use them, I guess it's also worth noting these two Social Policies:

    Cultural Diplomacy. :c5happy: Happiness from gifted Luxuries increased by 50%.
    Protectionism. +1 :c5happy: Happiness from each Luxury resource.

    (There are only 13 luxuries, so Protectism caps out at +13 :c5happy:and Cultural Diplomacy at +6.5 -- kinda lame for top tier Policies, IMO.
     
  7. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    I won't be playing this game out either and I play on Emperor and normal speed. I presume the only speed difference is that my games are 500 turns and this is 750 turns? Anyhow, I will assume that we can make comparisons based on the date and this is 1604 AD. Since I have a slow day here and like helping newer players (returning the favor for the help I've taken from these forums and Sulla's site after having returned to Civ after nearly a 15 year break from the game) this will be a long post.

    First of all, you're in an extremely bad situation here since you have very little research, a bad gold situation, and -4:( with little chance to get :) until those col's are built which seems rather far off. Your lack of research (and also econ) are likely due to lack of city growth since your overall pop. seems quite low. Fixing this economic mess into an economic and research powerhouse will be next to impossible, but we can improve it and I'll give you advice as to what you should have done earlier.

    The first thing you need to do for econ is to get happy and stay happy while growing some more pop size. This means that currently you need those col's. When unhappy, and most of the time once my cities have grown to several pop and I am planning to soon aquire more cities, either by REX/ICS or conquest I put all of my cities on Production focus as long as no city is starving. If you try that for Boston and Phila, you may find that you get those col's sooner. I am unsure what New York (I assume that city in the far south) is doing but if it can get a work boat to Atlanta at some point you can work those fish for a nice 3G, 3F tile. Anyhow, when unhappy, cities should usually go to production, or something other than default..perhaps gold or science fcous.

    I presume that unit maintenance is eating not only your dollars but your coins as well. How do we rectify that? Well, we can delete some units, but by far the better way will be to take a bunch of Siam's units to the grave with some of our brave troops. Siam has you enveloped here and it might even get worse if he builds another city or two to your south and/or allies with those two CS down there. Siam has more pop than you and clearly will continue to outtech you if you leave the status quo. You share so much common border with Siam and have so many troops massed vs each other that war seems inevitable.

    So, from the above we see that you must prepare to DOW Siam ASAP and noting that you need some of his space for your own growth and some of his cities will make nice puppets. I am not much of a pike user, however, I presume that they really can hurt elephants. I do know that elephants can really hurt horses so be careful there. Looking at the screen shot we see that Siam has 3 or more likely 4 exposed elephants and you have lots of pikes handy. Can you prepare this turn to hit each of those phants with two pikes next turn when you DOW? If you can kill those 4 phants on the turn when you DOW (2 near Atlanta and 2 near Chicago) you'll put a big dent into his army. Of course some pikes will die in the counter attack, but fall back into your territory and use the ranged units to snipe at his counterattacking advance..garrison them in border cities if needed rather than letting them get killed. Horses can pick off wouded unit and then run back out of harm's way.

    If you can waste much of Siam's army here your game is tenable, I think. Then you conquer some of his cities, in a clockwise manner, razing Luang Prabang, and puppeting Martaban (notice that lux for 5:))..perhaps then you can continue into Kamphaeng Phet, but you'll likely need to heal and may need reinforcements and perhaps Siam will beg for peace and give you stuff and you can decide which route to prefer.

    Are your workers on automated? If so they have made a mess of things. I NEVER put my workers on automated. For me, having my workers do what I want to optimize my empire's area plays a major roll in whether I'd struggle on king level with low gold and productivity or whether I stomp the AI's with ease on Emperor (OK we'll see if I can do that on Immortal next game).

    Here's what I'd have done to better use your small empire's resources.

    1) Your road layout is poor. There are many ways to use just 6 tiles of road to connect Washington, Boston and Phila. Then you could make a road use just as many tiles as you did to NY in the south. I'd make that road on the desert tiles since once my worker finishes a road on one tile, he can move to the next and start the road right away. Unless NY has some decent pop, you may be losing more gold in resources than trade income that connection provides and while the movement ease is nice, there's no real attack threat to NY here yet.

    1a) Speaking of roads, the Meritocracy SP is very nice since it provides +1:) for each city connected by road and here that would mean your empire is not :(.

    2) I see two CS in the south. I'd suspect that with both being coastal, one of them is Maritime. You should strive to be allied with that Maritime CS once you start building a couple new cities since you'll be fed and can grow to a pop of several in each with ease. Then you can build trading posts on any tiles except those river tiles (usually grassland) that will benefit from civil service (noting your pike style).

    3) There are some nice river hills to the south of Washington. TP's on them will mean 3G and 2P from each of those tiles. I also see too many farms on tiles that only yield 3 food. With a Maritime ally, those should have TP's on them.

    4) Probably you shouldn't have build Chicago and/or Atlanta when that were driving your empire into unhappiness.

    5) Once you get some experience with Maritime CS ally(s) and more TP and learn to better manage and improve empire growth, you'll be soon breezing thru King level.

    OK to recap and stressing that you'll learn a lot here trying to save this game, but you made need to go back 100 turns and do some things better (that will also be a learning experience to try).

    1) All those cities go to whatever focus speeds up production (unless it starves them) until you're clearly happy.

    2) The 2 pikes near Atlanta are fine as they can step and then strike that phant in Maraban. The two pikes north of Atlanta are fine as they can stab that pahyderm to death. In the map center just south of the wall, move that pike and sword north next to that phant. Do the same with the two pikes in Chicago. Then on the following trun DOW Siam and try to kill 4 phants. Your catapult in that citadel (I think) can likely take fire from that city but use it to pound enemy troops and retreat it if you think you'll lose it. The next GG you get can give you that nice 25% bonus where needed in battle.

    3) You may lose Chicago in this war, but so what, it is a 1 pop city that can't grow due to :( and losing it will reduce unhappiness. Don't lose Atlanta, since then Siam will be too close to your empire's heart. Speaking of Atlanta, those wall won't be built in time to help this game since either you'll have rolled up a couple Siamese cities along that NW coast or be overwhelmed by his counterattack. I'd switch production in Atlanta.

    4) Once you're happy and have taken a couple Siamese cities, grow and stay along the edge of happiness and tech and you may yet end up OK.


    .. neilkaz ..
     
  8. Centerfinger

    Centerfinger Chieftain

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    Neilkaz, thanks for the input on the Washington game. I may revisit it later and at an earlier save point.

    @OTAKUjbski - I recall getting the social policies that did decrease unhappiness. Here is my save if anyone wants to look into it.

    View attachment Catherine_0468 AD-2034-.Civ5Save
     
  9. Bob1475

    Bob1475 Prince

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    I sucked at CIV 4 for a while but I did read the succession games and improved. What I learned there I think still applies.

    First, go back to Warlord BUT try and win in different ways. At this level the easiest is domination in my opinion. What is needed is a clear goal and focus. Avoid too much "building". If you are going to win by warmongering then that is what you need to do. Pick a civ that does well warmongering. Avoid the CS, not worth taking them out if you are focused on domination. See, once you have a specific goal your choices become easier! Sure you need a few cities and sure you need some culture and happiness BUT only because you need it to conquer, Pick your social policies accordingly.
     
  10. mihaifx

    mihaifx Warlord

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    Hehe, this reminds me of the time I tried to convince a friend of mine to try Civ 4. He quit within a few hours saying it was too hard. I guess you have to be born for it :D
     
  11. Nutteria

    Nutteria Tzar

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    HaHAa Centerfinger when you said you went for domination win with the Russia you really ment it :D .

    I am very happy that you managed it and I am looking foreward in to continueing to give tips and what not in this thread if you choose to continue to ask qustions and post replays/SS for us to look at.

    Remeber we are here to help and if you choose to spend that extra time and continue this thread it will be worth you while IMO!
     
  12. Bob1475

    Bob1475 Prince

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    Hey Centerfinger - You don't need all those cities! For domination just take the capitals and you win! From the looks of the map France can't be too big. If you just grabbed Paris you would be done - probably 100 years ago!
     
  13. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    My pleasure ! And well done with that Russian game. Of course there are other SP's for happiness as well and a nice one for later on is the one that grants 1:) per univerisity since it goes hand in hand with teching.

    I do recommend that you soon take a stab at this Washington game by attacking Siam almost instantly. If you can roll up a few of his cities along the west coast I think you'll be on the way towards a nice comeback victory, and if this fails, you'll know in no more than a dozen turns and can then decide to try again from 100 turns earlier or so.

    Best of luck and I think you're on your way to King level. Hmmm...noting I expect to have my hands full when I try my first Immortal game soon.

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  14. Centerfinger

    Centerfinger Chieftain

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    I didn't realize you could win Domination by just taking the capitals and you're right I could have done it many, many turns sooner. I guess it was fun to completely annihilate every civ :D, even though some of the little island cities were a pain to drag units across the map.
     
  15. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    I did some MM'ing in the Washington game and got it to +0 :gold:/turn. Siam is willing to buy Chicago for 140 :gold: and a gold lux. I didn't look into your military any, or how I'd do it.
     
  16. bigwinw

    bigwinw Warlord

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    I would recommend the Strategy section of these forums. They have been very helpful for me. I had this same problem in Civ 4 moving from Prince to King. After asking a few questions and reading some threads about how to Rapidly Expand (REX) properly I was able to beat emperor. It was tough but possible.

    What map style do you like to play? In CiV the AI is very different on a Pangaea and Tiny Islands. Try switching your map style.

    Also you can try someone like the greeks. Beeline to Horseback Riding and build Companion Horses. Then go destroy you neighbor.

    One thing I learned is that you can not try to get every equal tech before moving to the next tier. You should beeline to certain techs that will meet your victory goal (ex. Culture techs, Military techs, ect.). Once you get that tech you want a few tiers deep then start picking up the ones you don't really need.

    Feel free to hit me up in a Private Message if you have other questions.
     
  17. AznWarlord

    AznWarlord Monarch

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    The key is money. Base your cities on luxuries. Sell them as soon as you get any excess, they don't contribute to happiness. The AI takes them for 300, which is a lot. Use that to buy stuff that gets you more money - markets, banks, etc. I usually end up with 200+ Gold per turn, which means buying any unit or building is just 2-3 turns away.
     
  18. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    You can switch to a option that eliminate the civ,if this civ lost all cities and units. even if you didn't choose this option,you did very well. soon,you'll want to move to king,then emperor...
     

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