Help with Great Leaders.

[Jodien]

I just can't seem to have a great Leader in my games. I generally prefer playing military, scientific, religious and expansionist civs. Does this make a difference?

I can promote my several veteran units to elite status. But that's all. Further combat won't do anything. Also, can the Great Leaders complete wonders in 1 turn, or do they just add some shields to the production?

In order to build a Military Academy, do I need an army who won a battle after it is formed? Civilopedia says I need a victorious army.

 

[Dark Sheer]

I don't think the traits make any difference in generating Leaders. Militaristic helps in getting Elite Units and as Leader can only be generated by Elites, it helps a little.

Greate Leader complete any building (including wonders) in one turn.

Yes, you need to have a victorious army to build both the Hero's Epic and Military Academy.

 

[Shabbaman]

The chances are something as 1 in 16, I don't recall the exact value. Keep on pounding with your elite units. When they become obsolete (military units have the tendency to do that) don't upgrade your elites, but use them to pick on weakened units.

 

[MadHatter]

Shabbaman: Have you ever really gotten a GL by picking on a weakend unit with an obsolete elite? I thought there was some mechanism to judge the "fairness" of the fight, as in "if the attacking elite fights down to 1 HP and wins, there's more of a chance than if it is at full HP and picks on some warrior.."

 

[Zachriel]

The odds are 1/16, 1/12 for militaristic civs. Save your elites for sure wins. I usually get several Great Leaders per game (but not always!).

After a long war in the Middle Ages, I needed garrison troops for border cities. My elite sword were perfect for the job. By the Industrial Age, you would think they would be without any combat value. But think again . . . . .



http://www.zachriel.com/gotm9/ad1600-Sword.htm

 

[bobgote]

just keep fighting with the elites. And they can hurry anything so that it is built the next turn. Most useful for Forbidden Palace (but do army first).

 

[DavesWorld]

Also remember Leader chances only happen from Elite victories vs other civs, not Barbarians. Barbarians can only train your troops to Elite, but once at 5hp you should cycle other troops in for experience and use the elites for real war.

 

[Japher]

I ussually get a lot of leaders when I play (at least 6 by the second age), mainly because I play to get leaders. The current game I am playing I am getting hosed. Just wipped out the Frenchies (15 towns) starting with fifteen elite swordsman (trained by staking out barb huts) and didn't get one leader. Oh well, those are the odds...

 

[greenie]

I find that Great leaders usually elude me too - but I'm not usually looking for them. I spend most of my time beign religious, expansionist or Industrialist. My style is ideally not geraed towards war.

But I find when I do get them I get them at really inopportune times - like my first elite unit in the BC's.

But i gnerally find armies crappy except for defensive purposes by the time infantry come along, otherwise you're really clipping the abilities of a lot of units basically from Knights up. Armies are only good for defense IMO.

 

[trader/warrior]

ive had civ 3 for four months now and i havent got a single leader.

 

[Gundam]

From my experience I can tell you that if an elite unit wins a battle against all odds (elite warrior vs Spearman :O ) it will have more chances in spawning a Great Lider. What I want you to remember when you want to get a great leader is...the harder a battle is won , the better chances will be to get a great lider ( when I get a leader the victorius unit usually has 1 hit point left )

 

[Catt]

I don't believe the nature of the combatants (other than elite status) make any difference in determining whether a GL appears. An elite Modern Armor has as much a chance of generating a leader if it defeats an enemy warrior as it does if it defeats an enemy mechanized infantry. Broadly speaking, your odds are 1/16 if your elite unit is attacking, 1/32 if defending. If you've built the Heroic Epic, the odds go to 1/12 on the attack, 1/24 on the defense. Militaristic civs get more promotions (regular->veteran->elite) but no more GLS than others. No GLs from barbarians; no GLs from ("un-upgraded") units that have already generated a leader. No GLs from armies.

For the central repository of information on Great Leaders, see Sumthinelse's thread HERE.

 

[Cruise]

Jodien, make sure you get a sure win from an elite unit. Soften them up with veterans and let Elite's finish them off. The odds are like 1 in 16, so sooner or later one will emerge from the battlefield.

Oh i am sure you will jump out of your chair cheering when you get one, i always do on my first GL in a game

 

[thefrenchzulu]

Hi, I'm new to this forum, but will add my 2cents worth.

I believe and know that there is more about getting leaders than just simple stats.

On another thread, I tried to explain this, but with much resistance. I dont really care, cause in GOTM10, I had 4 leaders by 340AD.

I'm not going to repeat it all, so go and read it yourselves.

Great Leaders: Everything you always wanted to know

 

[Gundam]

Look at the picture screen that Zachariel posted on the forum.In that example a swordman is going to atack a cavalry...if the swordman beats the cavalry only from a single blow , I bet my "2 cents " that the posibility for a great leader to appear is very slim, but if the swordman loses 4 hit points and wins with the last blow than u'll se the difference...hf
ps: 98% of my heroes from all my civ3 games were spawned in this way...

 

[Yzman]

The battle makes no difference. It is just a probability like everything else in the game. Someone should ask Mike B to verify this though, but I'm 99% positive.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Gundam
Look at the picture screen that Zachariel posted on the forum.In that example a swordman is going to atack a cavalry...if the swordman beats the cavalry only from a single blow , I bet my "2 cents " that the posibility for a great leader to appear is very slim, but if the swordman loses 4 hit points and wins with the last blow than u'll se the difference...hf
ps: 98% of my heroes from all my civ3 games were spawned in this way...

In a large group of players, there would be a natural variance in the average number of hitpoints which are lost when a Leader is spawned. Some will have easy promotions, others will see more bloody promotions. This is a normal distribution, and I suspect that the variance is significant. Add to this all the different playing styles that can effect the final result. For instance, notice that the Cavalry was redlined by artillery, dramatically increasing the chance of the Elite Sword winning (96.057%), and in my experience dramatically increasing the chance of a Leader appearing.

And no, I didn't get a Leader in any of those seven Sword battles.
But if you don't try, you'll never succeed.

 

[thefrenchzulu]

I love GL's so do pretty much everything to get them. Even starting senseless wars if need be.

I often bombard units to one hit point to kill them with old elite units.

If posted this before, but want to reiterate that unit disparity plays a big role in promotion probabilities. I know this has not been verified, but I have found it through lots and lots of attempts at getting leaders. (Early leaders can win you the game.)

My theory: The less your change to success, the higher the probability of promotion. Makes sense actually. Killing cavalry with a swordsman is 3 attack vs. 3 defence. No increased probability. If you should try killing infantry, 3 vs. 10, you have about 3 times better change!

How does this influence your early play? Attack with below par units. Rushing spearman cities with horses have twice the change of getting a leader than rushing the same city with knights!!!

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by thefrenchzulu
My theory: The less your change to success, the higher the probability of promotion. Makes sense actually. Killing cavalry with a swordsman is 3 attack vs. 3 defence. No increased probability. If you should try killing infantry, 3 vs. 10, you have about 3 times better change!

Possible, but it doesn't match my own experience. It should be relatively easy for one of our honored number-crunchers to create the experiment necessary to prove or disprove this hypothesis.

thefrenchzulu, have you ever conducted a test or demonstration?

 

[thefrenchzulu]

Zachriel:

Unfortunately I don't have the time to perform testing. I barely have time to play. In the thread I've linked above, I asked that some one should test this. It should be interesting to have exact statistics.

My theory surrounding unit disparity, I found through game play. I had some deity conquest wins using immortals. From my experience I found that I could barely achieve promotion to elite, though I won most of my battles. Once I incorporated some archers into my attacking stacks, I suddenly had more promotions and many more early leaders. I found the same when attacking cities defended with spearmen with horsemen rather than knights. Since then I attack with on par units and have had tremendous success in creating leaders! (Horsemen vs. spearmen, knights only vs. pike men etc.) Suddenly my rush for cavalry has stopped since I get more leaders with my knights!

I imagine that it should be very easy to test this theory and once I get time, I might even do it.

From a gaming point though the theory is sound. If you attacked only with superior forces, you will have more victories, which should result in more promotions and more leaders. That will result in many leaders playing at easy levels and a few at deity. Don't think they wanted that, so there is a leveller built into it. (I think)
My statement about three time more chance of leader success against infantry than against the cavalry is just a guesstimate until I one day decompile CIV3