Help with Tall Strategy

[Grey_Warden]

Greetings all,

I'm a first-time poster, long-time reader.

I play primarily on the King difficulty level in G&K, and I am trying to diversify my strategy a little here. Up to this point, I've only ever been successful playing with a wide strategy until I hit Order, and then founding/conquering as many cities as my happiness allows. In such games, I have the strongest or second-strongest military, access to nearly all of the luxury resources, and pretty much the same social policies. I emphasize science first, military second, and everything else just falls into place.

It has gotten to the point where I pretty much don't know how to win any other way, and this frustrates me. I attempted to play as a tall empire, and I am unable to succeed with it Prince +.

Take my last game, for example. I played as Korea, had a nice starting area with an abundance of wine. I grabbed Stonehenge, was the first to start a religion, and grabbed monasteries for extra culture and faith from all the wine. I built up a modest military, and was able to fend off multiple invasion attempts. I thought everything was going rather smoothly.

Then, around 1700 AD, three of the ranking notifications popped up close together, and I see that Egypt has the pointiest sticks by far, over 80 happiness, and DOUBLE MY SOCIAL POLICIES whereas I was one of the weakest militarily(expected), the lowest in happiness, and only one above the average in social policies. In addition, the only way I was keeping up with them scientifically was by stealing techs.

I quit in disgust.

Such is the usual tone for my attempts at playing tall. I know I need to drastically improve my micromanagement and overall strategy to succeed here.

Tips anyone?

 

[budweiser]

Sure. Get more food and really build up those cities. You were probably working all that wine which really stunts your growth.

 

[kamex]

Welcome.

Typically stick to founding four cities, then 'maybe' gain a few puppets when military opportunities present themselves. Focus heavily on Tradition, then Rationalism, then Freedom. Specialists are important for getting better yields from your food (especially as Korea). The Hanging Gardens and Temple of Artemis wonders help a lot in the capital, as does Maritime allies. Focus on growth all the time, and thus try to avoid negative happiness which impedes your growth. Found a religion which gives bonuses to tall, such as the '1% production per follower' belief.

Hope that proves somewhat helpful.

 

[Grey_Warden]

Growth, eh?

Thank you for the input. I understand the importance of growth, but how should I reconcile it with my desire to use specialists? Often times I end up having to choose between having citizens work tiles to grow faster and using them as specialists for culture/science.

Generally speaking, at what point should I prioritize specialists over growth?

 

[Browd]

Need to figure out how to use specialists while still growing (albeit more slowly). You generally don't want to stagnate a city using specialists. More typically, the trade off is specialists vs. hammer tiles -- e.g., work no specialists and finish Sistine Chapel in 14 turns or work the specialists and finish in 24 turns.

 

[budweiser]

At first you need some hammers so you can get a ganary and a water mill. But, once you get up around ten, go in and click the food button. Viola! If you still want or need to work a few special tiles, lock those in. Then click the hammer button if you want to make a building or a woinder fast, like the NC. Try to buy your university, then fill 2 scientist if you have lots of food. Civil Service!

 

[joncnunn]

Being on food focus the turn a city grows is about the worst thing you can be on based on order of food/gold/production. Much better to be on production focus with manual lock to some food tiles. (Better yet, lock everything)

 

[sufficiency]

Being on food focus the turn a city grows is about the worst thing you can be on based on order of food/gold/production. Much better to be on production focus with manual lock to some food tiles. (Better yet, lock everything)

I don't think it's terribly important after the first 50-100ish turns.

 

[Grey_Warden]

And where does military fit into this? Any rule of thumb on how many units to have guarding these four cities?

 

[Unresolved]

For King, 3-4 archers should be enough to defend yourself. If you want to attack, you'll want a few more.

 

[joncnunn]

And where does military fit into this? Any rule of thumb on how many units to have guarding these four cities?

One Archer per city; upgrade to Composites and then Crossbows as you get the tech.

It will be awhile before you really need anything else if your only interested in defending yourself.

For offense; that's the ranged; typically if you have Iron, you'll add Swords or Longbows.

 

[Grey_Warden]

Thanks everyone.

It's 1820 AD in my current attempt. I'm Egypt, and have grabbed Artemis, Hanging Gardens, Hijemi Castle, and a couple others unrelated to the tall strategy specifically. Tradition is maxed, and I'm three policies into both Rationalism and Commerce. Happiness is an issue. Alexander, Napoleon, and Dido have all been at war with me for some time, and I am mostly focused on staying alive. I know no other civs yet, and every city state is at war with me.

I feel like Fidel Castro. I am running a tiny country with no resources; no one will trade with me; everyone seems hellbent on taking me out; but goddamnit, I'm still alive!

However, Thebes has 33 citizens, and is without a doubt the coolest city I've ever had in a civ.

 

[de_baser]

Tradition is maxed, and I'm three policies into both Rationalism and Commerce.

Why commerce? That sounds like a silly idea when going tall.

You should start focusing on great people and planting landmarks/academies, etc. Super important. Get policies into Freedom and go crazy.

Though it might be too late for that now...

 

[Grey_Warden]

Why commerce? That sounds like a silly idea when going tall.

You should start focusing on great people and planting landmarks/academies, etc. Super important. Get policies into Freedom and go crazy.

Ah, that might have been stupid, yes. Forgive me.

Although, without protectionism, I would be totally screwed happiness wise. Also, that +25% gold from capital has been a huge help. That was my rationale, at least.

I have been focusing on great people and planting landmarks and such, though. It is not too late!

 

[joncnunn]

Tradition is maxed, and I'm three policies into both Rationalism and Commerce.

Why commerce? That sounds like a silly idea when going tall.

You should start focusing on great people and planting landmarks/academies, etc. Super important. Get policies into Freedom and go crazy.

Though it might be too late for that now...

Tall != planning cultural victory ; Tall is suitable for every victory in Civ V.

I suspect OP grabbed Commerce as a filler while waiting for Rationalism. Yes, Astechtics under Patronage is a much better filler in G&K.

You shouldn't be generating any artists going Science/Domination/UN (waste of a scientist) so there won't be any landmarks.

And chances are as most civs that at most one GS will be after the point that techs is better than academy.

For space race, opening Order much better than Freedom simply from allowing faith based GEs; that will now be cheap since you grabbed so many faith based GS earlier. (Ensure you get Hubble)

Meanwhile, if you are going Cultural victory, I suspect you'll run out of tiles for great people improvement for academies considering the number of landmarks & holy sites you would be planting.

 

[Mesix]

Puppets are really nice too. I like to go tall. I REX out 4 cities and get my national wonders ASAP. Then I take out neighbors and puppet all their cities. This is a great strategy for going tall unless you start to run into happiness problems.

 

[Grey_Warden]

Just finished the game; won space race with a score of 1469. Unless you do as the previous poster suggested (puppet a bunch of cities) will the score for a tall empire generally be lower?

 

[Mystz0r]

Personally, I hardly ever look at my final game score, as I really don't feel it's indicative of... well, anything. I rather look at how many turns it took and try to beat my own previous records.

 

[blazingsprocket]

Wide empires typically have higher scores than tall empires. Really though, winning is winning and what is more impressive is a faster win than a higher score win.

 

[Crustacian]

Wide empires typically have higher scores than tall empires. Really though, winning is winning and what is more impressive is a faster win than a higher score win.

If winning is winning, then "really" either higher or faster is equal as they are both wins.

I am more impressed by higher score unless it is a race. But a faster win is still a cool win. That's just me.

Even in races, it is the more intense struggles and overcoming adversities that get the most cheers. How many movies reflect this observation?

What is funny to me is King of Beers comments once in awhile like:

Sure. Get more food and really build up those cities. You were probably working all that wine which really stunts your growth.

Thank you for the winning humor!!