Hermetic Lore for FFH DI5

[Calavente]

Create a held settler who's trapped by sea/mountains and a held barbarian warrior unit. Kill the barbarian to free the settler. Like in the previous case, we can't remove a held promotion from a settler unit half way through Verdian's turn, so the unit which defeats the barbarian needs to return home to represent escorting the settler or remain to protect them.
Any God: again a held settler unit is used. They refuse to move, so the location of the settlement is pre-defined by the God. Either held promo is removed on next God turn or the God changes the Settler to a size 1 settlement, provided Verdian completes the associated mission.

Couldn't you use the Cage effect (iirc it is vanilla FFH)? I don't know how to trigger it at will, but it held the unit until someone goes on the cage... thus it would work as an "held", without the complications (can't remember if the unit can be attacked by passer-by....)

well if it is only a RifE feature, forget about it.

 

[Lplate]

Couldn't you use the Cage effect (iirc it is vanilla FFH)?

Yeah, that's a better approach. I think the cage is just a different type of improvement, so we should be able to place it on the Settler using the World Builder.

 

[Bad Player]

I have worked out what to do with the terrain to make the map more balanced around the Kuriotates. This causes the Bannor and the Amurites to settle in more appropriate locations to allow fair expansion for all.

1) Improving the Amurite land (reducing mountains, adding a river and moving the sheep resource south):

2) Moving the pig resource (and moving the ivory away from the Bannor) in view of the Bannor west of its original location so they don't settle right next to the Kuriotates:
http://i48.tinypic.com/29220x3.jpg
Also added a watchtower south of the Bannor capital (SE of new pig location) otherwise the Bannor refuse to settle a 2nd city (I don't know why they just won't!).
EDIT: Not good enough. Other changes added.

By having the Amurites settle in that location, it creates a moderate chokepoint north of them. The Clan of Embers is to the West and must fight the Amurites at the hill chokepoints north or south of the mountain range.

 

[Bad Player]

1) Would the god of balance like to do something to stop the Balseraphs and Grigori from settling within a few squares of eachother? Perhaps the Balseraphs need their starting location improved?
http://i47.tinypic.com/hvtqvm.jpg


2) Would the god of balance like to do something to stop the Sidar settling next to the guardian of the Pristine Pass because they die early for no good reason. Perhaps creating a better starting spot/making that spot less attractive would work?
http://i48.tinypic.com/y017o.jpg
Or even better IMHO moving the pristine pass to somewhere between Amurites and Clan of Embers where it will have more impact (in an interesting way).
http://i45.tinypic.com/2jdoz0k.jpg


3) Daladin - I'd be more than happy for you to add a couple of small islands (archipaeligo) around the Lanun capital to give them another spot to settle in line with their theme.


4) TO ALL: The goody hut SE of the Kuriotates always gives the scout a new technology. EDIT: NO IT DOESN'T I JUST GOT LUCKY THE FIRST FEW TIMES.

 

[Calavente]

Yeah, that's a better approach. I think the cage is just a different type of improvement, so we should be able to place it on the Settler using the World Builder.

I just remembered that maybe, to "validate" the cage, you have to give a "caged" promotion to the unit you want to be caged... but I may be wrong

 

[Lplate]

Got it

I've updated the map to include Esus's named features.

I included the Chill Pass to the West of the Kuriotates. I didn't implement any other of Bad_Player's suggested balance tweaks - I'll leave that to Dagda.

With the Chill Pass in place the Amurites and Bannor settle as shown.

The reason there's a red blob is because that's what happens to griffons when you give them the Illusion promotion.

 

[Bad Player]

I spent 2 hours last night working out how to make the Amurites and Bannor settle better without giving much in the way of bonuses (had to give an extra sheep to Amurites) and you put the mountains there... Never mind, can I just take down just the one mountain square which is at the most westerly point and do these changes:

1) Save the Sidar:
Remove Guardian of the Pristin Pass (I actually put it NE of CoE and NW of Amurites in a diagonal mountain pass but if someone wants to move it from there I have no objections). They have died in every game (I ran it about a dozen times) from the gargoyles!

2) Improve Amurite spawn:
- Removal of several mountains north of their spawn
- Moving south of the sheep resource
- Adding a sheep resource

3) Move Bannor capital farther west of Kuriotates
- Remove just one of the mountain tiles at the far west of Chill Pass (will that be a problem Lplate?)
- Move the 2 pig resources, one west and one far south
- Moving the ivory east away from their new capital
- Adding lots of jungle to the south
- Adding a mountain to the west tip of the spit near their spawn
- Adding an ancient tower 3 tiles south of new capital (else they don't expand)

4) Improve area north of Kuriotates for quest + possible city
- Flatten some hills
- Add a corn resource 2 tiles south of the iron

 

[Lplate]

I spent 2 hours last night working out how to make the Amurites and Bannor settle better without giving much in the way of bonuses (had to give an extra sheep to Amurites) and you put the mountains there... Never mind, can I just take down just the one mountain square which is at the most westerly point

If it has to be done, do it but leave the tile as a Hill. The sun isn't supposed to reach the ground in the centre of the Pass.

 

[apenpaap]

Hello, my fellow gods, this is Ceridwen. I don't have detailed plans yet (I'll make them later) but in the long run I'll probably be trying to cause Armageddon. In the shorter run, I'll likely focus on spreading the use of magic, and trying to get the Ashen Veil founded. If there are Sheaim in the game, I'll likely patron them, aside from of course focussing on our Kuriotates, if not I'll probably help the Infernals once they come.

But it seems I'm running into some technical difficulties first... The installer of Magister's modmod is saying it can't find Mods/Fall from Heaven 2 (though I do have FFH installed under that name), and doesn't install properly. The zip archive too doesn't work, because when I try to open the mod in Civ, it says it can't find 'CIC4AlignmentInfos.xml' and after that more errors show up.

 

[Derf]

Might want to back up your FfH install, make a clean install and try again.
Also, if like me you're on a 64-bit version of Windows, you might have a bit of trouble now and then - the extra (x86) it tacks on to the Program Files folder annoys some things.

 

[apenpaap]

Ah, I managed to fix it. Thanks for the help, it's working now. I've got to do stuff, so I will take a look at the game later.

 

[Lplate]

Mega Plot (Whoops)

Spoiler :

I forgot to look at the position of Bradeline's Well during my edits. Could one of the Gods (Mammon preferably) who has yet to do their edits reposition it?

The Hippus and Magnadine are not in the game, so the greedy hero could come from the Balseraphs, given that Mammon is typically their patron God.

Another option (which I prefer) would be for the hero to demonstrate their Greed by trying to get the Dragon's Hoard from Acheron (and dying in the attempt). I assume Magister still uses the Hoard with the revamped dragons. Such a hero could theoretically come from any CIV but those next to Acheron's bones are most likely. It might make sense to reposition Acheron's bones also. Using a hero that isn't part of the existing lore would mean that we don't have to wait for a specific Tech to be researched but can base the Mega Plot timeline around Acheron.

Mega Plot Timeline:
~ Turn 50: Acheron turns up
Turn 100: Story of hero who died trying to get Acheron's treasure
Turn 150: Story of apparent resurrection of the hero and his preaching that we are in Esus's hell
City placed near Bradeline's Well if there isn't one there already
Turn 200: Story of the Exodus via Bradeline's Well
City near BW changes ownership to hero's CIV
War declared between civs
Unit called "Iaegus" (not really the arch angel) placed on BW
Stories of Witnesses appearing in cities throughout the world
Turn 250: Followup stories on Witnesses. Push for Empyrean as state Kuriotates religion to combat the lies
Turn 250+: Sirona quest to remove " Iaegus" and redeem BW

Acheron's Bones: near CIV that Mammon's hero will be from - it doesn't need to be limited to the defined heroes within the game and it's probably better for balance if it isn't one of them.
Bradeline's Well: near the CIV that will be targeted during the exodus.

Any suggestions / preferences for the two civs that Bradeline's Well and Acheron's Bones should be positioned beside?

Esus Quests

Spoiler :

Current quest: build a palisade by turn 50
Hook: Can't trust anyone on this continent
Carrot: City Garrison 1 promo for warrior in city
Stick: Other civs which build the palisade get the promo

Planned Quests
Turn 50 quest: Develop the Trade technology
Hook: smugglers
Carrot: None
Stick: Kuriotates lose some gold starting at 10 and gradually rising to 100 for each subsequent God turn if they have not researched Trade

Blurb for story thread

Spoiler :

Rabish was just finishing his evening walk. It was amazing that he actually got anywhere given that he stopped to talk to everyone he met. He was gifted with one of those memories that not only remembered names and faces but also all the familial and social connections that defined who anyone was. He took an interest in everyone and people like to feel interesting. Rabish never followed the same route on these walks. Yesterday, he even climbed the palisade watchtower - given that he was so out if breath, he had to sit down with guards for a considerable time, it's unlikely he'll be doing that again in a hurry.

"Good Evening, Lord Dallarin."
"Good evening, Lord Rabish and what does my favourite fishmonger's wife have to report?"
"I've inspected our guards several times now. They appear ever watchful and alert. It is hard to imagine any force taking the city by surprise. I fear that this extra alertness is not a natural condition for them to maintain over a long period. It is not devotion to duty that is making them so effective. Rather, it is a fear of what lies outside the city. Some speak of things lurking in the woods across the river. I suspect that if you cut down these woods, their paranoia would just find a different focus. What I would recommend is that we find a way to help the watchmen relax and unwind - alcohol may help or. . . perhaps a large celebration at which everyone remembers that life is something to be enjoyed."
"Does this place the city in danger."
"Not now. As I say, are watchmen are more vigilant than any others I've known. In the long term, I don't know if they can keep the constant high level of watchfulness without ultimately suffering some damage to their minds."
"I see. I'll give this matter some consideration. Have you other news?"
"A Lanun smuggling ring was operating near the river mouth. It was detected and quickly dismantled by a local hunter, Jerbane. He really was most efficient. It is, however, human nature to want what is not locally available. If people can not obtain it legally, they will resort to other means very quickly. Whilst we've removed one group of smugglers, another will develop soon enough. What I would suggest is that we develop rules to regulate Trade with other nations. That way, people can access the exotic items they desire and the state can get it's due."

"As you know, the recent meeting with the Bannor went smoothly. I think that the guard, Quintien was very effective at putting our guests at ease. He really is quite the charmer. The Bannor, themselves appear quite militaristic. I doubt we could trust them to remain peaceful if we can not maintain a sufficient show of strength in our own forces."

OOC

Spoiler :

Objective:
Learn Trade

Stick (no Carrot, Trade is good for you anyway):
On the next God turn, if you don't have Trade, 10 gold will be removed from your treasury due to more smuggling

Following God turn: 20 gold
Following God turn: 40 gold
Following God turn: 60 gold
Following and subsequent God turns: 100 gold

Turn 100 quest: Establish Spymaster and develop Deception
Hook: Evidence found of Bannor/Sidar spying
Carrot: Potential to take advantage of a Combat promo for some troops when go to war (Spymaster and Deception)
Stick: Other civ's units could get the Combat promo when they go to war on the Kuriotates

blurb for story thread

Spoiler :

"Good morning, my lord."
"Ah, good morning Rabish. It thought you were enjoying some hunting with our guests this morning."
"I was seen imbibing enough last night that no-one was surprised when I didn't appear for the dawn start today."
"I trust that the hunt went ahead without you."
"Yes, it proceeded as planned. It has allowed me to confirm some suspicions of the Bannor lady Darthia."
Rabish handed Dallarin a carefully folded piece of vellum.
"My lord, what you are looking at is a very detailed map of all major fortifications and defences in Kuriotate lands. The apparent gibberish in the top right corner has been deciphered by the lamia, Chasthellah and is a count of all troops that lady Darthia has been in a position to observe."
"What does this mean."
"It means that we have a spy in our midst and the Bannor already have a plan for war."
"What is your counsel at this time."
"As ever, there are numerous options. You have evidence that lady Darthia is a spy and could execute her as such. Of course, if the Bannor have been preparing for war, this may provide them with the justification they want to start it. You could simply banish her from our land and destroy that piece of vellum. I would expect that if she is in anyway a capable spy that she has already committed everything on that page to memory. Such an action accomplishes little but let's the Bannor know we are aware of their activities. They will have all the information they want and may still decide to press forward with a war. Subtlety may provide the best approach. Knowing that lady Darthia is a spy allows us to manipulate the information she receives and sends back to her masters. My counsel would be to allow her to continue for now without giving her any indication that we know. We may be able to use her against her own masters in the future. Lady Darthia may not be the first spy in our land and may not be only one currently here. I would urge you to have a Spymaster establish a network of agents both here to defend us and in other lands to gather information. Remember, my lord, that most battles are won and lost before any weapon is drawn."
"Are you offering yourself for the position of Spymaster?"
"I may he the best qualified candidate but I fear I am already too well known both within your court and to the foreign dignitaries that have visited. You need an unknown, someone who is free to operate in secret as he develops your spy network."
"Quintien - he seems to have a knack for gaining access to our guests."
"Discretion, not charisma is the brand of a good Spymaster. He must judge what to conceal and what to reveal. I would suggest Jerbane. He's proven himself capable and is still anonymous. I'll leave the decision in your hands. Until you have decided, I'll return that vellum to where it was found."

OOC

Spoiler :

Objectives:
Establish Spymaster and develop spy network
Learn Deception

Carrot and Stick:
If you kill lady Darthia, you'll take a big diplomatic hit with the Bannor.
If you denounce her as a spy, you'll take a smaller diplomatic hit.

If you do not establish a Spymaster, then some of the troops in any nation which goes to war with the Kuriotates will get a combat buff to reflect their superior information. At least 5 units will get the promo (8 if they have Deception). More troops will get this buff if the nation previously had Open Borders with the Kuriotates (number of turns of Open Borders in last 50 divided by 3. The divisor will be 2 if they have the Deception technology). Some nations will not receive this buff if discussions with the relevant God indicates they will NEVER resort to spying.
If you have a Spymaster and develop the Deception technology, then your units will gain the Combat promotion if you're in a war with a nation that you previously had Open Borders with. The number of troops that get the Combat promo will be based the number of turns out of the previous 50 that you had Open Borders divided by 3. You won't get this benefit if the other nation also has Deception.
If you've a war with two nations, then the calculation of the number of Combat promos will only be made wrt one nation.
The Combat promos will be removed on the next God turn as the war will either be over or the information will be out of date.

I've obviously assumed in the quest story for turn 50 that Verdian is going to complete Esus's first quest and have made contact with the Bannor. It may need to be reworked if he doesn't.
The turn 50 story also allows for the guard's paranoia to develop further if Verdian just ignores it.
The numbers for the turn 100 quest are initial guesstimates. Let me know if the carrot/stick are too excessive.

Summary - someone please set up the UF for the Mega Plot and let me know what your opinions are on the quests.

 

[Bad Player]

If it has to be done, do it but leave the tile as a Hill. The sun isn't supposed to reach the ground in the centre of the Pass.

Actually no, I will probably leave it as you had it as a mountain, I'll check the bannor.

 

[Lplate]

If Bad_Player (Junil) is going to go with my earlier suggestion of trying to get the Kuriotates to give a Divine inspired defensive pact to the Bannor, then it might make sense to put Bradeline's Well on the edge of expected Bannor land.

Then Verdian would have to make the call of whether to go to war (honouring the oath) or not (breaking the oath) following the attack to gain access to Bradeline's Well.

 

[Bad Player]

The first quest I want to do is this (please give feedback guys!):

Mechanism:
A held Bannor worker is placed north of the Kuriotates (where I will remove many hills and add a corn).
Player Options:
1) Leave the worker alone and he will probably die from a barbarian (or if not then go to option 2)
2) Send a warrior (or whatever) to fortify over the worker to protect it and Verdian either does a) or b):
a) Break 2 the worker is un-held and Verdian keeps the worker (i.e. he gets a free worker)
b) Break 2 the worker is un-held and Verdian gives the worker to Bannor (he gets a diplo bonus)

Story: (I'll think of something)

 

[Elder Methyl]

Sounds good.

 

[Lplate]

Sounds good.

Ditto

 

[Bad Player]

OK I pretty much have my save file ready for upload (with Esus as the last god) unless someone has already done an update on Esus' work? I'm just double and triple etc checking everything.

 

[Empedocles]

I will take the save as soon as you are done with it. I'll definitely look at Pristin Pass and the various starting locations.

 

[apenpaap]

Ceridwen, angel of Stars, Dimensions, Magic, Secrets and more

Spoiler :

I've been thinking about my overall plot. As Ceridwen, my overall goal will simply be to cause Armageddon. Since there are no Sheaim, I will not be trying to accomplish this through a single people: instead I envision the followers of the Ashen Veil in general as my 'people' (particularly if Agares and Bhall don't end up being claimed). Any other evil gods who would like to help me try to cause armaggeddon are welcome to help, of course. > Think about it, a gigantic incredibly destructive war sweeping the entire planet, sin running utterly rampant... Maybe I could later on also create Planar Gates in the cities of civs that please me, meaning your critters would get to walk Erebus free through them.

In the beginning my plans are mainly to get AV founded as soon as possible, and preferably even to get Dallarin to found it. I will be doing this by presenting myself more kindly at first, offering knowledge of magic. Of course, Knowledge of the Ether is required to research Corruption of Spirit in the first place.

Essentially, my idea for the first quest I'm going to give him, is that I task him to research Ancient Chants and Mysticism before the next segment, and if he does I'll gift him Knowledge of the Ether and an Adept. If either the quest or the reward seems too big, please tell me. I could instead give him an Elder Council or Library or settled Great Sage if gifting a whole tech is too big, while still keeping in the idea of Ceridwen granting knowledge. If there are no objections to this first quest, I'll post it tomorrow mornign/early afternoon, probably without an edit of the save yet (just a simple research quest).

Oh, and it is interesting to note that Abashi is actually my pet. I don't have any plans yet, but in the context of the current story it'll probably make for something interesting. I'm open to suggestions.