portuga
King
I'll be away for the next two weeks.
I left my password with my allies
See ya later
I left my password with my allies
See ya later
Hinge of Fate - World War 2, 1941-1945
- Thread starter eric_A
- Start date
TechGuy
Prince
GPS to Japan
*Krusty will come, Krusty will come...* I mean,
*The Allies will come, the Allies will come...*
*Krusty will come, Krusty will come...* I mean,
*The Allies will come, the Allies will come...*
eric_A
Deity
portuga said:I'll be away for the next two weeks.
I left my password with my allies
See ya later
Sully has agreed to take over Russia for a while.
Misfit_travel
Emperor
Kuibyshev falls (it was undefended).
2 Inf Divs, 1 Inf Corp destroyed outside Saratov (which is also undefended).
1 Inf Div bombarded E of Saratov.
2 Inf Div killed in Gorki. City holds (for now).
Rostov bombarded. Barracks destroyed (yeah) and some units damaged.
No German losses.
Turn to Sully.
Regards
Misfit
2 Inf Divs, 1 Inf Corp destroyed outside Saratov (which is also undefended).
1 Inf Div bombarded E of Saratov.
2 Inf Div killed in Gorki. City holds (for now).
Rostov bombarded. Barracks destroyed (yeah) and some units damaged.
No German losses.
Turn to Sully.
Regards
Misfit
aksully
Deity
Russian Turn Summary
Continued the attack against Helsinki...KIA Inf Div
GPS to Aluminum Knight
Sully
Continued the attack against Helsinki...KIA Inf Div
GPS to Aluminum Knight
Sully
AluminumKnight
Conquistador
Guys, I think I sent you all the e-mail about my address change. I can still use my current e-mail but it's a lot easier if you would use my school address. If I need to resend from that address if you didnt get it let me know.
EDIT: Status update... package should be mailed tomorrow, I should have it by the end of the week. Got a little delayed but it's coming
EDIT: Status update... package should be mailed tomorrow, I should have it by the end of the week. Got a little delayed but it's coming
Misfit_travel
Emperor
Sully and I have been going back and forth about the situation in Russia.
Here was my basic strategy.
After the first mock start I realized that direct frontal assaults against heavily defended positions was suicide. The counterattack would murder me.
The only way to beat Russia was to mass German forces (hidden as best as possible from Russian eyes) and eliminate a stack at a time.
I've had superior recon, relative to Russia, in this scenario. I use quite a few ME-109s to spot likely target areas, then mass units to strike. (I must admit that Ju-88s are damm near useless against a fortified target, but out in the open against corps or smaller units they can be quite devastating.)
The battle for Stalingrad (the second time) was a direct effort to get the Russian to commit his 2 armies. The bait was my tank corps, which on their own, are easy targets for him. I positioned tank divs in order to block his possible attack path against the city, which allowed him only one attack per army. I figured to lose 2 tank corps. Unfortunately for me, his veteran inf corp (the only other unit in the area worth anything) also managed to take out a tank corps.
Unknown to the Russian player (I hope), was that I relocated my ENTIRE Ju-88 airforce (20+ units) into Stalingrad the turn it fell. I thus had a massive air stack to hammer his armies down to virtually nothing before attacking with my remaining tank corps. Even then it was still a pretty close thing. Statistically speaking, the army has to be down to 3 hps before you attack with a tank corp or you have a pretty high percentage chance of losing.
The war in Russian isn't over yet, but with only 2 (or possibly 3) armies left, the Russian war effort will be quite limited.
Overall tactics on this front have to be:
- isolate unit groups from possible reinforcement
- concentrate forces and destroy in detail
I think if I were playing the Russian I would adopt a strategy of strategic retreat forcing the German player to stretch his forces to the point where I could strike an exposed flank with a concentrated force. After turn 1, the only place I'd concentrate any forces would be Moscow. With the high population and terrain, its virtually unassaultable until 4 unit armies get built.
Russia starts with a significant initial advantage in army units. I think I would keep building armies in Moscow and fill them up with the loose inf corps lying around. I keep 3-4 corps concentrated around Stalingrad, strategically retreating from Sevastopol and Rostov. Quite frankly, I'd hope the German would go after Baku and run down to the Middle East because it would hopelessly spread out his forces.
I think I would also use all of my smaller cities to build workers, then expend them in:
a) overlapping radar towers
b) road tile repair (from the inevitable German air assaults)
Moderate sized cities build fighters, which are stationed to make attacking Russian roads as expensive as possible. Every German air unit destroyed takes a minimum of 3 turns to replace. They also get drafted like mad to build up enough shock troops to physically man each road tile (2 or 3 deep).
Moscow builds armies. Leningrad build tank corps.
If the Russian is patient, he'll tie up a ton of German troops without giving up any significant terrain. It will buy the other Allies enough time to mount counteroffensives.
I would also strongly urge the British player to attack French coastal towns by isolating them with aeral bombardment, followed by hit-and-run type strikes against weak locations. The objective should not be to capture anything, rather to sytematically destroy the weaker German garrison units stationed in France. (To achieve this I would build Destroyer transports and 1-2 Marine Corps, or use air power to knock German inf div or Fortress garrison units down to 1 hp before attacking with the Commando unit). Only attack units that are 2 deep, thus not advancing into the tile or destroying units, and retreating back into safe harbours.
This will force the German to expend resources in building replacement units, or draft his cities for them. (Either way those are forces not being built for use in Russia).
I definitely would not go after Norway. It doesn't matter and unless CW is prepared to attack and garrison it, all it does it expose naval units to Uboat attacks.
Speaking of which.....
I think subs are a little too powerful for the scenario. I must admit to that subs are doing way too much damage they are to major surface ships. I'm having a little trouble believing that Uboats would be truly effective against anything larger than a CA type unit. I think reducing the number of subs by half would limit the type of wolfpacking attacks that are possible early.
I'd also suggest that some limiting factor be considered for the building of masses of subs early in the scenario. Making them more expensive might reduce their numbers further.
My two cents.
Misfit
Here was my basic strategy.
After the first mock start I realized that direct frontal assaults against heavily defended positions was suicide. The counterattack would murder me.
The only way to beat Russia was to mass German forces (hidden as best as possible from Russian eyes) and eliminate a stack at a time.
I've had superior recon, relative to Russia, in this scenario. I use quite a few ME-109s to spot likely target areas, then mass units to strike. (I must admit that Ju-88s are damm near useless against a fortified target, but out in the open against corps or smaller units they can be quite devastating.)
The battle for Stalingrad (the second time) was a direct effort to get the Russian to commit his 2 armies. The bait was my tank corps, which on their own, are easy targets for him. I positioned tank divs in order to block his possible attack path against the city, which allowed him only one attack per army. I figured to lose 2 tank corps. Unfortunately for me, his veteran inf corp (the only other unit in the area worth anything) also managed to take out a tank corps.
Unknown to the Russian player (I hope), was that I relocated my ENTIRE Ju-88 airforce (20+ units) into Stalingrad the turn it fell. I thus had a massive air stack to hammer his armies down to virtually nothing before attacking with my remaining tank corps. Even then it was still a pretty close thing. Statistically speaking, the army has to be down to 3 hps before you attack with a tank corp or you have a pretty high percentage chance of losing.
The war in Russian isn't over yet, but with only 2 (or possibly 3) armies left, the Russian war effort will be quite limited.
Overall tactics on this front have to be:
- isolate unit groups from possible reinforcement
- concentrate forces and destroy in detail
I think if I were playing the Russian I would adopt a strategy of strategic retreat forcing the German player to stretch his forces to the point where I could strike an exposed flank with a concentrated force. After turn 1, the only place I'd concentrate any forces would be Moscow. With the high population and terrain, its virtually unassaultable until 4 unit armies get built.
Russia starts with a significant initial advantage in army units. I think I would keep building armies in Moscow and fill them up with the loose inf corps lying around. I keep 3-4 corps concentrated around Stalingrad, strategically retreating from Sevastopol and Rostov. Quite frankly, I'd hope the German would go after Baku and run down to the Middle East because it would hopelessly spread out his forces.
I think I would also use all of my smaller cities to build workers, then expend them in:
a) overlapping radar towers
b) road tile repair (from the inevitable German air assaults)
Moderate sized cities build fighters, which are stationed to make attacking Russian roads as expensive as possible. Every German air unit destroyed takes a minimum of 3 turns to replace. They also get drafted like mad to build up enough shock troops to physically man each road tile (2 or 3 deep).
Moscow builds armies. Leningrad build tank corps.
If the Russian is patient, he'll tie up a ton of German troops without giving up any significant terrain. It will buy the other Allies enough time to mount counteroffensives.
I would also strongly urge the British player to attack French coastal towns by isolating them with aeral bombardment, followed by hit-and-run type strikes against weak locations. The objective should not be to capture anything, rather to sytematically destroy the weaker German garrison units stationed in France. (To achieve this I would build Destroyer transports and 1-2 Marine Corps, or use air power to knock German inf div or Fortress garrison units down to 1 hp before attacking with the Commando unit). Only attack units that are 2 deep, thus not advancing into the tile or destroying units, and retreating back into safe harbours.
This will force the German to expend resources in building replacement units, or draft his cities for them. (Either way those are forces not being built for use in Russia).
I definitely would not go after Norway. It doesn't matter and unless CW is prepared to attack and garrison it, all it does it expose naval units to Uboat attacks.
Speaking of which.....
I think subs are a little too powerful for the scenario. I must admit to that subs are doing way too much damage they are to major surface ships. I'm having a little trouble believing that Uboats would be truly effective against anything larger than a CA type unit. I think reducing the number of subs by half would limit the type of wolfpacking attacks that are possible early.
I'd also suggest that some limiting factor be considered for the building of masses of subs early in the scenario. Making them more expensive might reduce their numbers further.
My two cents.
Misfit
aksully
Deity
This is a wonderful discussion for all to absorb for their own gaming play. It is very impressive to see the results....unfortunately for us Allies!
Sully
Sully
Misfit_travel
Emperor
The campaign is hardly one-sided. I lost 2 armies and 4 tank corps in the Ukraine. No matter what you do in Russia, it will be expensive to win.
Misfit
Misfit
eric_A
Deity
Sully informs me the the Russian situation is pretty much hopeless
so I think the Allies should concede, what do the other allies think?
I made a major blunder in the far east, sending my fleet into the Java
Sea where they got wiped out. I should have stayed out in the Indian
Ocean at least until the CV Hermes arrived to give me some aerial recon
ability.
Looking forward to comments from Spartaca about the Chinese front.
Misfit:
In the version 1 which I am in the progress of releasing now I
changed the player order so that the Russians move first. This will
give them a chance to get their front line forces fortified and their
fighters on CAP. Do you think this is overdoing it?
so I think the Allies should concede, what do the other allies think?
I made a major blunder in the far east, sending my fleet into the Java
Sea where they got wiped out. I should have stayed out in the Indian
Ocean at least until the CV Hermes arrived to give me some aerial recon
ability.
Looking forward to comments from Spartaca about the Chinese front.
Misfit:
In the version 1 which I am in the progress of releasing now I
changed the player order so that the Russians move first. This will
give them a chance to get their front line forces fortified and their
fighters on CAP. Do you think this is overdoing it?
AluminumKnight
Conquistador
My 2 cents... As the Minor Allies I really can only offer some insight on the Pacific situation. My cities in the Pacific were hardly defended if they were at all (some were empty), and there was no way for me to get any more defense because they weren't large enough to draft from and god knows they couldn't produce anything. In real life the Japanese had their hands full with the Americans, so I think the real issue in the Pacific is that.
Other than that, I think it's very well done. The Brazilian army was going to take awhile to get together, but eventually I would have gotten that out there. I messed up allowing my transport to get sunk right away so that delayed things as well.
Other than that, I think it's very well done. The Brazilian army was going to take awhile to get together, but eventually I would have gotten that out there. I messed up allowing my transport to get sunk right away so that delayed things as well.
Misfit_travel
Emperor
eric_A said:
Don't know. We would have to playtest it to see.
I doubt I would do as well with the German the next time around. Russian tactics will have evolved and Germany just plain doesn't have that many tactical options.
If we play again, I suggest fewer players. The gap between turns was too much to have any continuity.
I wouldn't mind trying CW (if that's an option).
Misfit
eric_A
Deity
Misfit_travel said:
The player order is such that it allows the USA+China to be easily played together by one person and the same goes for CW+Minor Allies, that would
cut the number of players down to 6.
If we do have another go at it, I would like to try the Russians.
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
I would not mind trying Japan or the US if possible as it seems really well done.
TechGuy
Prince
Well, it has been a great game though I spent most of the time strategically retreating.
Here are some of my thoughts as China:
The first few turns weren't too bad at all. I think the major mistake I made was that I tried to challenge the NI corp filled army with my weak Chinese infantry army. Though I really don't know what I could do with an army that only had 5 attack pts.
China couldn't really challenge Japan in this game. All I could produce are Chinese infantry (5/10/1, albeit, pretty darn strong compared to normal inf divs) and field artillery (which most of the time, didn't do much to the rampaging NI corp armies). The only thing that could remotely attack the Japanese spearhead were my 'lead-lease' US inf div at 8/5/2 but it pales in comparison with NI corps.
It would be great if somehow China was able to produce a unit, though expensive, that could punish maruading Japanese units. There were times where I redlined a NI corp army with artillery but can't attack it because I didn't have a unit that could safely bring it down.
Oh, one last thing that could be fixed... China is running Feudalism government and I've been running on negative income for most of the game. Every unit that is over the unit support limit costs 3 gold. I think that's a bit too steep for China's meagre income.
These are my thoughts for the game. I would like to give China or the US another whirl if you're starting another game Eric. Good game guys.
Here are some of my thoughts as China:
The first few turns weren't too bad at all. I think the major mistake I made was that I tried to challenge the NI corp filled army with my weak Chinese infantry army. Though I really don't know what I could do with an army that only had 5 attack pts.
China couldn't really challenge Japan in this game. All I could produce are Chinese infantry (5/10/1, albeit, pretty darn strong compared to normal inf divs) and field artillery (which most of the time, didn't do much to the rampaging NI corp armies). The only thing that could remotely attack the Japanese spearhead were my 'lead-lease' US inf div at 8/5/2 but it pales in comparison with NI corps.
It would be great if somehow China was able to produce a unit, though expensive, that could punish maruading Japanese units. There were times where I redlined a NI corp army with artillery but can't attack it because I didn't have a unit that could safely bring it down.
Oh, one last thing that could be fixed... China is running Feudalism government and I've been running on negative income for most of the game. Every unit that is over the unit support limit costs 3 gold. I think that's a bit too steep for China's meagre income.
These are my thoughts for the game. I would like to give China or the US another whirl if you're starting another game Eric. Good game guys.
Misfit_travel
Emperor
I have to agree that economically China, CW and Russia start the game at a disadvantage. I can see Russia and China not being economic superstars, but CW is comprised of some pretty strong nations. I had expected them to be much stronger economically.
At the very least I would hope that they don't immediately start the game in a negative economic condition.
Misfit
At the very least I would hope that they don't immediately start the game in a negative economic condition.
Misfit
eric_A
Deity
Misfit_travel said:
They do due to a bug in civ. When the game starts, the trade routes across
seas are not set up initially. This causes a lot of the CW countries to have few luxuries which makes them unhappy so the game engine assigns a large
number of people as entertainers. It also sets the research rate too high.
There is also starvation in some cities caused by lack of people to work the
land.
As soon as a city is captured or a road destroyed, the game engine
establishes trade routes and you can reassign people to more productive
jobs. And of course you can lower the research spending. Not sure what I can do about the starvation.
This bug does not affect countries like Russia or Germany where all
territories are connect by land routes.
If anyone knows any clever ways to fiix this I'd like to hear them.
P.S. I version 1 I gave the CW extra starting cash to get them through
the initial turn.
Despair888
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Messages
- 173
Im interested in playing if you guys do another one.
eric_A
Deity
Despair888 said:
Despair888:
That means we just need 1 more for a 6 player game. Germany and the
Minor Axis are still available, take your pick.
The thread for version 1 download is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=127474
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