History of Firearms Quiz

[Vrylakas]

OK, some hints for the remaining questions:

2. We've got the first part right, that firearams were probably first invented and used in China, but we're waiting for the approximate date. Hint: Some Chinese chronicals mention firearms use in battles stretching back to the 4th century in China, but these chronicals were written many centuries after the battles and they describe technologies that are far more recent in origin. There is no doubt that gunpowder has been used in China since the 4th century, but only in temple ceremonies as Knight-Dragon observed.

9. Charles VIII and all of Europe had a basic problem in the 15th century with firearms technology that he resolved. It would greatly widen the range and use of firearms...

11. You guys have already mentioned this development mistakenly as an answer to other questions. It really was simple, but had a major impact.

13. These two guys essentially invented the modern firearm.

14. Mauser was more famous for his pistols at the time, but he made something that was sloppy and prone to exploding much more sturdy and safe.

17. Peek-a-boo, I see you!

18 D. The Moisen-Nagant had a strange feature whereby the trigger guard was oversized, for a hand with big gloves to fit in it... (Now who would need big gloves...?)

18J. Piece o' crap, but a holdover from WW I - coming from the country that took to hiding behind "walls".

21. The shape of the magazines is a key...

Good luck!

 

[King of England]

I don't know much about firearms, but i'll take a shot at #11.

Rifling? Don't know how it works, but it makes the bullet or whatever spin so it can go more straight. Just like the fletches make the arrow spin.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

"2. We've got the first part right, that firearams were probably first invented and used in China, but we're waiting for the approximate date. Hint: Some Chinese chronicals mention firearms use in battles stretching back to the 4th century in China, but these chronicals were written many centuries after the battles and they describe technologies that are far more recent in origin. There is no doubt that gunpowder has been used in China since the 4th century, but only in temple ceremonies as Knight-Dragon observed."

During the Song Dynasty? Remember reading somewhere Song soldiers used rockets and other missile projectiles against the Jurchen Jin.

"9. Charles VIII and all of Europe had a basic problem in the 15th century with firearms technology that he resolved. It would greatly widen the range and use of firearms..."

Wild guess - use of fuses to ignite the gunpowder?

"14. Mauser was more famous for his pistols at the time, but he made something that was sloppy and prone to exploding much more sturdy and safe."

Dynamite? But I think that's devised by Alfred Nobel. Hmmm....

 

[Vrylakas]

Spacecow wrote:

For # 11:

One barreled machine guns??

No.

Then he wrote:

Or maybe Rifled barrels??

Yes!!!! Rifling in barrels has existed since the 1550s in Europe, and was adapted from the idea that the fletch on arrows makes the arrow spin - which makes it go much farther and more accurately. (It's kind of like throwing an American football; the spin allows it to go both farther and gives the thrower greater control in targeting.) A problem with rifling was that for it to work the bullet had to be tight in the barrel - and most 16th and 17th century firearms had vague bullet sizes that only fit inside the barrel snuggly with a lot of cloth wadding. In the 18th century firearm quality improved greatly but because of the rifled barrel it was much harder to ram the bullet down the barrel - which meant it took longer, which could be fatal in battle. The 18th century armies utilized sharpshooters - a sort of battlefield assassin who used rifles - but the regular army still preferred lining up a row of smoothbore guns and continuously blasting away in the enemies' direction. Smoothbore guns were far less accurate and had a smaller range - just read accounts of 18th century battles and you'll see that unless the armies were on top of each other, volley after volley would produce only a few casualties.

In the 19th century most countries finally switched to rifles, though strategies and tactics remained for the most part based in the Napoleonic era - an era that used smoothbores. This is where the huge casualty rates start showing up in, for instance, the American Civil War - where two armies line up on a battlefield in classic Napoleonic frontal position and blast away at each other - but this time, using firearms that were much more accurate (Now they put sites on the guns because there was a point to aiming!) and with a greater range. In World War II the Americans lost about 535,000 dead; in the American Civil War the Americans lost 625,000. This also accounts for the massive casualties of World War I, when generals still insisted on the Napoleonic single glorious battle that would win the war.

When the Germans in 1914 attacked the British Expeditionary Force at Mons, they thought the British had machine guns because of the rapid and accurate rate of fire; they didn't. The British had simply trained well with their rifles.... A taste of things to come...

Excellent job Spacecow! Rifling was a seemingly minor innovation but it completely changed warfare (and hunting - leading to the extinction of many species humans couldn't previously hit well with a smoothbore).

King of England wrote: I don't know much about firearms, but i'll take a shot at #11.

Rifling? Don't know how it works, but it makes the bullet or whatever spin so it can go more straight. Just like the fletches make the arrow spin.

King of England gets credit for this one too! Good shot!

 

[Vrylakas]

To all Americans, Happy Thanksgiving! For a Pole with little experience in this direction, my wife can make a mean turkey!

Knight-Dragon wrote:

"2. We've got the first part right, that firearams were probably first invented and used in China, but we're waiting for the approximate date. Hint: Some Chinese chronicals mention firearms use in battles stretching back to the 4th century in China, but these chronicals were written many centuries after the battles and they describe technologies that are far more recent in origin. There is no doubt that gunpowder has been used in China since the 4th century, but only in temple ceremonies as Knight-Dragon observed."

During the Song Dynasty? Remember reading somewhere Song soldiers used rockets and other missile projectiles against the Jurchen Jin.

Yes! There is a lot of confusing commentary in Chinese chronicals stretching back to the Three Kingdoms period that seems to suggest firearms (and even earlier in some cases to the Chou), but the first definite mention comes from descriptions of the Sung battles of resistance to the Nu-chen/Jurchen Tartars in the early 12th century. The historian J.R. Partington claims that some of the devices may have come from the eastern Islamic empires. The Sung, however, while apparently using firearms, didn't sytemmatically adopt them, nor did the subsequent Yuen (Mongol) dynasty. The Ming dynasty were the first to enthusiastically embrace firearms in their military in China.

This means that firearms probably were in use in China and the Islamic world in the 12th and 13th centuries, gradually making their way westward to Europe in the early 14th century. Over about a century's time, however, the Europeans made major improvements to their firearms. When the Portuguese sailed around Africa in the 15th century and came upon the Arab slave-trading forts, the Portuguese cannon had far better range and were somewhat more accurate, which allowed them to easily pick off and take over the Arab forts.

Good job on that one Knight-Dragon! There are many myths about the Chinese having firearms 2000 years ago; myths propagated by Chinese chronicalers living in the 17th and 18th centuries.

"9. Charles VIII and all of Europe had a basic problem in the 15th century with firearms technology that he resolved. It would greatly widen the range and use of firearms..."

Wild guess - use of fuses to ignite the gunpowder?

Nope. Let me put it this way: We've already mentioned that the first firearms in Europe - all cannons - were made by bell foundaries. Now how easy do you think it is to move a bell around...?

"14. Mauser was more famous for his pistols at the time, but he made something that was sloppy and prone to exploding much more sturdy and safe."

Dynamite? But I think that's devised by Alfred Nobel. Hmmm....

Nope. Take a look at a German Mauser from WW I, and you'll notice that it looks remarkably like just about every other firearm you see today.

Thanks Knight-Dragon! Another tough question cleared up!

 

[Vrylakas]

I almost forgot - I'll finish up Question #10 because Knight-Dragon took a good swipe at it and almost got it.

The chronological order for the different kinds of firearms goes like this:

1. Matchlock (16th century)
2. Wheel-lock (16th century)
3. Snaphaunce (late 16th century)
4. Flintlock (17th-19th centuries)
5. Percussion (19th century)

1. The matchlock was the simplist form of gun type, where you stuck a match into a powder-pan igniting a small explosion outside that lit the powder inside the barrel. Problem: that small explosion showed everyone on the battlefield where you were, and the slightest wind or rain made your gun useless. This design didn't last long.

2. The wheel-lock put the "flash-pan" (where the initial explosion took place) undercover, and used a slowly revolving wheel rubbing against pyrite to create a spark that would ignite the powder.

3. The Snaphaunce was similar to a wheel-lock - except it used a cheaper material, flint, to get the same results. The poor-man's wheel-lock.

4. The flintlock got rid of the wheel and just had a hammer with a flint piece strike against cold steel, producing the necessary spark. Can it get any simpler?

5. Even flint can be unpredictable when wet however, so someone got the idea in the 19th century to put a highly unstable mercury compound into a small brass cap and have a hammer strike that to produce the initial spark. This "percussion cap" was far more reliable, and used by almost all armies from the 1840s onward...

Here's a hint for questions 13 and 14: These inventions completely wiped (almost) out all of the technological developments I've just described.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

"Yes! There is a lot of confusing commentary in Chinese chronicals stretching back to the Three Kingdoms period that seems to suggest firearms (and even earlier in some cases to the Chou), but the first definite mention comes from descriptions of the Sung battles of resistance to the Nu-chen/Jurchen Tartars in the early 12th century. The historian J.R. Partington claims that some of the devices may have come from the eastern Islamic empires. The Sung, however, while apparently using firearms, didn't sytemmatically adopt them, nor did the subsequent Yuen (Mongol) dynasty. The Ming dynasty were the first to enthusiastically embrace firearms in their military in China."

Just to clear something up - the Ming were not that enthusiastic a user of firearms thru out most of its era, except towards the end. These were actually brought in by the Europeans, specifically the Jesuit order who were trying to establish themselves in China, and hence trying to ingratiate themselves to the Ming emperor. Firearms didn't help much against the Manchus though. It was even recorded that Nuerhachi, the leader of the Jurchen tribes who would one day rename themselves Manchus, once charged Ming musketeers successfully using cavalry. Guess the firearms in those days were really primitive?

It's the Qing Manchus themselves who were the first enthusiastic 'Chinese' users of firearms. They used artillery (cannons) with great effect on the Western Mongol tribes (Dzungars) and others and reduced the nomadic threat forever.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

"9. Charles VIII and all of Europe had a basic problem in the 15th century with firearms technology that he resolved. It would greatly widen the range and use of firearms...

Wild guess - use of fuses to ignite the gunpowder?

Nope. Let me put it this way: We've already mentioned that the first firearms in Europe - all cannons - were made by bell foundaries. Now how easy do you think it is to move a bell around...?"

Another wild guess - he put them on oxen carts, which enabled easier transportation to the field of battle?

 

[Vrylakas]

Knight-Dragon wrote:

"9. Charles VIII and all of Europe had a basic problem in the 15th century with firearms technology that he resolved. It would greatly widen the range and use of firearms...

Wild guess - use of fuses to ignite the gunpowder?

Nope. Let me put it this way: We've already mentioned that the first firearms in Europe - all cannons - were made by bell foundaries. Now how easy do you think it is to move a bell around...?"

Another wild guess - he put them on oxen carts, which enabled easier transportation to the field of battle?

Close enough! Cannon in the 15th century were extremely heavy and almost always permanently mounted somewhere. Charles VIII's army streamlined and shortened the shape of the barrel to a point where it could be mounted on a wooden carriage - therefore becoming mobile. While the cannons were shorter they fired iron balls which had 3x the destructive force of the old stone ones. In the spring of 1494 Charles invaded Italy and conquered castle after castle because his new mobile (and more powerful) artillery was all over the battlefield, always at the places where it was needed most. It could roam up to the foot of castle walls and blast away, it could move back and batter parapets, then move towards the gates to deal with an enemy sortie. Mobile artillery had arrived, and revolutionized warfare.

Good one Knight-Dragon!

 

[Vrylakas]

Knight-Dragon wrote:

Just to clear something up - the Ming were not that enthusiastic a user of firearms thru out most of its era, except towards the end. These were actually brought in by the Europeans, specifically the Jesuit order who were trying to establish themselves in China, and hence trying to ingratiate themselves to the Ming emperor. Firearms didn't help much against the Manchus though. It was even recorded that Nuerhachi, the leader of the Jurchen tribes who would one day rename themselves Manchus, once charged Ming musketeers successfully using cavalry. Guess the firearms in those days were really primitive?

It's the Qing Manchus themselves who were the first enthusiastic 'Chinese' users of firearms. They used artillery (cannons) with great effect on the Western Mongol tribes (Dzungars) and others and reduced the nomadic threat forever.

Thanks for that input! My Chinese history is based on just a few classes, and has many holes...

As for the firearms used by the Ming, I cannot vouch for their quality. Until the 18th century in Europe, firearm quality varied wildly and even those considered among the best had a very limited range and almost no real accuracy (compared to today's). Bullets didn't fit tightly in the barrels, which meant that once ejected from the barrels by the exploding powder, they could go in almost any direction except backwards. Hollywood historical films frequently show 17th century firearms (The Three Musketeers, Joan d'Arc, etc.) being shot at great distances and accurately hitting their targets constantly; sorry; reality was otherwise. (I blame Hollywood but others do it too; a Polish film, Fire and Sword from last year had similar shooting that someone in the real 17th century would have been very, very impressed with indeed!) As I mentioned earlier, armies lined up and fired repeated salvos at each other, more often than not hitting nothing. Since accuracy sucked, the goal was getting a high volume of lead flying at your enemy - statistics tells you that sooner or later some of your bullets will hit someone in the opposing army. It is not therefore inconcievable at all that a cavalry could successfully charge musketeers. In fact, until about the 1690s, if I had to defend myself against a cavalry charge I'd go with a well-trained pike unit over musketeers.

And of course, not everyone is always up to date technologically-speaking. Take the famous Arab skirmishers in T.E. Lawrence's Arab brigade in the Saud during World War I, many of whom had 18th century flintlocks.

Thanks again Knight-Dragon!

 

[Vrylakas]

OK, so it seems everyone's bored with the topic. I'll spill the beans on the last few unresolved questions:

13. These two guys perfected and combined three features that would become the modern firearm: The breech-loader, the pin firing mechanism and the cartridge. They took the bullet and powder and put them in a brass case, and stuck the mercury percussion cap used in percussion firearms on the end of the case - inventing the modern cartridge! The needle in the gun's firing mechanism rammed into the percussion cap at the end of the case when the trigger was pulled. These two guys made a revolution in firearms, but their mechanism was weak and prone to breaking. That's where the guy in the next question comes in...

14. Peter Mauser perfected the bolt-action mechanism, the thing the two guys in the previous question invented (sort of). Mauser's bolt action was snug and strong, and adopted by nearly everyone in Europe. The one hold-out on Mauser bolt-actions were the Brits, who insisted on using their own Enfield-series rifles, as did most of the British Commonwealth. Another unusual holdout were the Italians, whose Mannlicher-Carcano rifles had a bad habit of exploding when fired and violently placing the weak Italian-made bolt in the firing soldier's cranium. (Lee Harvey Oswald used a Mannlicher-Carcano to assassinate Kennedy in 1963 because they were so cheaply available back then.)

17. The American technological disadvantage in the Spanish-American War was their powder. The U.S. through most of its history (until the Cold War) was infamous for lagging very far behind in military technology in peacetime, having to do a very quick (and expensive) game of catch-up when wars did break out. In 1898 the American Army was using a bizarre rifle, the Krag-Jorgenson, that was a breech-loader but loaded on the side instead of on top where most modern rifles load. Anyway, the real problem was that the American ammunition used black powder instead of the recently invented "smokeless" powder the Spanish (and everyone else in Europe) were using. This meant that every time an American soldier shot his rifle, a large blue sulphur cloud hung over his position - letting the Spanish know exactly where he was. This accounts for the high casualty rate among the Americans in the relatively brief fighting in Cuba in 1898.

18C. The Moisen-Nagant was the primary Soviet rifle of World War II. It is easily recognizable because, as I mentioned in my hint, it had an unusually large trigger guard for being able to fire the gun with thick gloves on...

18J. The Lebel was a very pathetic French weapon, owing its continued use to the Third Republic's obstinate belief in French military tradition.

21. The Thompson used the round "drum" magazine, the AK-47 uses the "banana" clip, and the M-1 uses the self-ejecting clip (spits straight up as soon as its empty).

Thanks for all who contributed!

 

[Achinz]

Just a late clarification and amplification of the discussion on Question 2, based on the authoritative tome "Ancient China's Technology and Science" published by the Institute of the History of Natural Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences in 1983.

Near the end of the Tang Dynasty (around the mid 10th C. AD) or the beginning of Song (late 10th C), gunpowder weapons was first used as incendiary devices eg by attaching small packages of gunpowder to arrows. Later bigger packages of gunpowder with ignited fuses wore hurled by catapults which had formerly been used for hurling stones.

Towards the end of the Northern Song Dynasty (1120s) new types of bursting fire weapons appeared called pilipao (thundering gunpowder charge) which apparently were responsible for "raising the seige of Kaifeng in 1126 AD". A barrel firearm called huoqiang was used by peasant insurgents against the fuedel rulers in the Song Dynasty. This was a long bamboo tube into which gunpowder was packed. Bronze and iron gun-barrels (huochong, firegun) appeared not later than the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368). Also called tongjiangjun (bronze generals), the oldest specimen cast in 1332 can be seen in the Beijing Historical Museum.