Ho ho ho and a bottle of Tokaj! - A Magyar civ

[Infinit1]

I personaly think the csardas is fine. It is Hungarian and it sounds good when I zoom in on my cities!

Oh, and kettyo, New York was the first capital of the US. Then Philadelphia and finally Washington DC.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

I would but it's up to you.
For me there's much less known about Árpád than Matthias but it may be my fault.

Its completely natural that less is known about Arpad, since nothing was writen in his time. Thus, he is more mythical. But what is certain is that he is the founder of a dynasty that forged the Hungarian kingdom in the next centuries. Less might be known about Arpad, but I would not say his name is any less known than Matthias. And there is one, very mundane, problem with Matthias. Not a single painting online. There are photographs of statues, and two medieval pics on wikipedia(neither on portrait level). Not a single portrait to use for his artwork.

I highly recommend it.
Actually both Kossuth and Széchenyi were mercantilists economy-wise.
Kossuth was more republican and Széchenyi more aristocrat.

Ok, on next update.

OK. Not a big deal.
Just funny that even today such things still insult people while we (romans and magyars) should be friends for a long time now.
Do you know Kossuth had a plan to form a big confederate-state in this region? Had been better maybe. Spare all these pointless ethnic hatred.
Was this hatred among southern slavic peoples still present in Jugoslavija or evolved only after it?

The problem with Kossuth was that he had no such plans in 1848. thats what led him into conflict with all ethnic groups within the Kingdom and seriously weakened the revolution. If his rhetoric and politics were different... who knows. He saw the error too late, when he was living in exile in USA. Would it have led to an EU before WWI. Who knows?

Ethnic conflict between South slavs started in 1840-ies, and was heated up several times before WWI. Ussually Austria played on Serbs to diminish the influence Croatian political parties and Croatian-Hungarian Unionists. During the first Yugoslavia, political oppression deepened the conflicts which exploded in WWII. During Tito's reign, all such conflicts were suppressed. After his death, all the old ideologies and traumas resurfaced and the result was the bloody Balkanese '90-ies.

Maybe not a good deal when your home is destroyed and have to leave your homeland. Not sure though

One cannot change history, esp. ancient history. It did happen a few centuries ago, after that failed revolt against the Turks. I'm pretty certain that Novi Sad is a much nicer city than Priština. You gain some, you lose some. C'est la vie. Should I cry for all we lost in Bosnia? Whats the point?

That's right. Though i think most serbs look at Montenegro as a vassal-state like Transsylvania was ours. So it could feel like a loss or betrayal.

Most likely, but a large number of Montenegrins do not feel that way. Serb-Montenegrin relations are very complicated. Some view Montenegrin as ethnic, some as regional identity.

Sure i know that.
But many serbs lived there and had to live their homes after the war AFAIK.
I know it could be hard to justice whether they acted a treason by not supporting Hrvatska but rebelled and supported Serbija.
I'm too outsider to decide.

Its rather complicated. Serb civilians were gone before Croat forces arrived. Krajina authorities started mass evacuation right at start. They were not expelled, they left. Well, you know what the usual punishment for treason in times of war is. They could've ended up, far, far worse, if we had treated them how they treated non-Serbs.

Somewhat right. But AFAIK Kosovo and Montenegro was part of Serbija for a long time. Correct me if i'm wrong.
So from the hopes and dreams of Great Serbija they ended up losing what they had at the start.

Well, at first, Serbia(Rascia) was a vassal state of Montenegro(Duklja). After the decline of Komnen renessaince and permanent withdrawal of Byzantines from the region, Serbia emerged and Montenegro(Zeta) was its vassal. After Serbia fell, Montenegro continued to exist as an independent state until it was conquered by Serbian army in WWI.

Been to Rijeka few times.
A like that huge harbor very much. Actually i like everything related to transportation and construction machines like cranes etc.
Also been in Opatija on holiday. It's beautiful.

Opatija is a bit too expensive for what it offers. I suggest anyplace on Makarska riviera. More sun, better beaches and more topless Czech and Slovak chicks. What more can you ask for?

Nowadays csárdás is mainly listened and sang and danced in so-called dance houses (these host folk music and dances) which i visit sometimes but not too many do.

But some more progressive bands like Ghymes are widely popular.

Don't misunderstand me, i like the csárdás too, just had to point that out.

Well, I'm always open to new content. Monti - Csardas is nice. I even saw that there is some techno version. Some band called Princess? I could put different song for different eras.

 

[kettyo]

Oh, and kettyo, New York was the first capital of the US. Then Philadelphia and finally Washington DC.

Thanx!

And when had New York got it's new name?
It was called New Amsterdam before AFAIK.

 

[kettyo]

The problem with Kossuth was that he had no such plans in 1848. thats what led him into conflict with all ethnic groups within the Kingdom and seriously weakened the revolution. If his rhetoric and politics were different... who knows. He saw the error too late, when he was living in exile in USA. Would it have led to an EU before WWI. Who knows?

Yes this turned out to be serious fault but it has to be seen that Kossuth and that liberal nationalism he represented had tons of enemies among hungarians as well so maybe didn't have the energy to care the other ethnics too and it's also true that most other ethnics were supporting feudalism strongly that time. The republicanism of Kossuth unfortunately did not spread to the minorities. Nevertheless it was unlikely that the very strong feudalist alliance in Europe (+Russia) could be beaten anyways that time.
It might have been a more better option to spread the ideology first for several years and not to start a direct confrontation on nationwide level so rapidly.

Ethnic conflict between South slavs started in 1840-ies, and was heated up several times before WWI. Ussually Austria played on Serbs to diminish the influence Croatian political parties and Croatian-Hungarian Unionists. During the first Yugoslavia, political oppression deepened the conflicts which exploded in WWII. During Tito's reign, all such conflicts were suppressed. After his death, all the old ideologies and traumas resurfaced and the result was the bloody Balkanese '90-ies.

It's very very sad.

One cannot change history, esp. ancient history. It did happen a few centuries ago, after that failed revolt against the Turks. I'm pretty certain that Novi Sad is a much nicer city than Priština. You gain some, you lose some. C'est la vie. Should I cry for all we lost in Bosnia? Whats the point?

You're totally right but i spoke about the present.
In the past few years serbs were expelled from Kosovo by albans or had to leave except the Mitrovica region near Serbija border AFAIK.

I usually read sites like gendercide.org or humanrightswatch.org 'cos i like to know the deepest darkness of human nature.

Its rather complicated. Serb civilians were gone before Croat forces arrived. Krajina authorities started mass evacuation right at start. They were not expelled, they left. Well, you know what the usual punishment for treason in times of war is. They could've ended up, far, far worse, if we had treated them how they treated non-Serbs.

It suggests that the evacuation was pre-planned then.
Given the sudden advance of operation 'oluja' it could not be organized in that few days it's impossible.
But what had been the point in preparing for mass-evacuation of your own people? Added that they refused the peace proposal so didn't expect defeat.
Impossible to understand.

About the deeds of serb fascists and militia i've read about them a lot.
Similarly evil to japanese soldiers in Asia in WWII.
War is generally only good for the people who like to kill or torture or rob out others and for the military industry.

Well, at first, Serbia(Rascia) was a vassal state of Montenegro(Duklja). After the decline of Komnen renessaince and permanent withdrawal of Byzantines from the region, Serbia emerged and Montenegro(Zeta) was its vassal. After Serbia fell, Montenegro continued to exist as an independent state until it was conquered by Serbian army in WWI.

Thx a lot!

Opatija is a bit too expensive for what it offers. I suggest anyplace on Makarska riviera. More sun, better beaches and more topless Czech and Slovak chicks. What more can you ask for?

I'll surely check out Makarska then.
I'll also have to look Dubrovnik for myself sometime.

Well, I'm always open to new content. Monti - Csardas is nice. I even saw that there is some techno version. Some band called Princess? I could put different song for different eras.

Princess are three young women playing the violin.
They are actually kind of junk-band for the masses you know what i mean.
They are not good musicians at all just making money with good looks and good management and media relations.
It's nice idea for the modern era though.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Are you planning to have Attila for leader in a future upgrade?

 

[kettyo]

Are you planning to have Attila for leader in a future upgrade?

Attila is feared leader of the barbarian huns.
Despite wide misthought magyar people commonly called hungarians in the west have are relative to the huns at all.

So it would be a bad idea.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Wasnt there a political initiative this year for the recognition of the Hunnish minority in Hungary? They were claiming that 100,000 Huns lived in Hungary. But the government blocked it.

 

[OzzyKP]

Yea, i heard about that.

 

[Bal-rog]

Yeah, there was such a nonsense...

The according law makes it possible to get recognition as a minority if you can collect enough (valid) supporters. (The same applies to religions.) So if you´d decide to form a norvegian minority (or a new religion) with your college buddies in Hungary it´s not impossible. It´s all about getting subventions from the state. (There were people who abused the regulation, stated, that they were gipsies and the majority in their neigbourhood - who of course knew about the cheating - voted for them, so they could form an absulote minority-free self governing authority for minorities... I hope this hole in the suffrage system will be corrigated till the next elections.)

So I wonder when the sarmatians, gepids, kuns,etc. rise again and demand reconginition (and money).

One more thought: Széchenyi´s mercantilism was meant in empire-level (I mean the Habsburg-empire), so for the countries involved it would have had the effect of a (internal) free market...

 

[Anima Croatorum]

We had a similar episode, some ten years ago, when half of local Roma community started claiming that they are not Roma but Romanian to get separate funding from government. Didnt work all that well since none of them spoke Romanian or knew anything of Romanian culture...

Anyway, among the pearls of Magyar politics I remember two things:

1. Blondes making political protest to ban jokes on blondes

2. Petition to ban Simpsons(due to the fact that Milhouse claimed to be Gipsie in one episode and threathened to drink the blood and steal the soul of someone, it was seen as insulting to the Roma)

So, basically, Széchenyi is as free trade/mercantilism as EU. Free trade within members, but Fortress Europe/K.u.K outwards. Stimulates trade between members but discriminates third parties(something that EU is turning into an artform...)

 

[Shqype]

In the past few years serbs were expelled from Kosovo by albans or had to leave except the Mitrovica region near Serbija border AFAIK.

Ha , such propaganda where there is no mention of the numerous expulsions of Albanians by the serbs.

 

[fsakezaf]

Hi everybody!

About the quarrelling what's going on here for days:
Everybody's right, because the personal right is a subjetive thing. So, the guy with the signature of "Serbija" has his own right, Anima Croatorum has his own, and I have my own. And the reality is an other thing, that no living man ever will be able to find out.
About the Balkan wars: I was in Bosnia. It is the most beautiful country I've ever seen. The brilliant sights, the beautiful countryside, the castles of Doboj, Ljubuski, Capljina.
And I was in Bosnia. I saw the destroyed Croatian villages near Teslic, that was terrible. I was in Mostar. I saw the destroyed Bosniac villages, that was terrible. I was in the Republika Srpska at the time of othodox christmas. I spoke with Bosniacs who were full of fear. I saw convoy of serbs armed with AKs and all other sorts of weapons cruising in the countryside. I was in the Federation at the time of Bayram. I spoke with Croats and Serbs full of fear, and saw armed Bosniacs. Everywhere I go were at least 3-4 known minefields and many more unknown.
So, Please, stop arguing about the fate of once-existed, once-powerful fallen states and ethnic conflicts here. I thought that this thread IS for the Hungarian Mod, so we should use this for this purpose. Who cares now that Hungary somewhere in the past ruled most parts of Serbia, conquered Croatia, and half of Bosnia? It's gone, and we have to live in the present and for the future. It's a state which we'll never be able to achieve again, and everybody, who has sense don't want to achieve.

Pardon me, I don't want to offend anybody, but I think this is not the right place for that kind of chatting.

Anyway, I just downloaded this mod, sounds good, so I try it at once.

About the leaders: I don't think that King Matthias would be a good choice. He only waged so expensive wars, and slowly he overused most of the country's resources for a temporary success, for what our ancestors had to pay more in the long run.
The rulers who made our country strong was III. Béla, I. Károly Róbert and I. László. III. Béla united the country again after 10 years of chaos, and beated the Byzantine Empire several times. I. Károly Róbert restored the power of the king, and tried to make a strong economy. I. László's main achievement was running up the economy by forcing law and order. I think they should have been better choices than Árpád or I. István.
And don't forget that the only Hungarian origin leader of the united Hungary until Rear Admiral Horthy - besides Kossuth Lajos - was II. Ferenc Rákóczy, the reigning prince of Transsylvania and Hungary.

 

[Infinit1]

I agree with fsakezaf, this should be about improving the Hungarian Mod for Civ IV and not a discussion over politics.

kettyo: in 1664 the British conquered New Neatherland and New Amsterdam and renamed it to New York. If you want more info go to Wikipedia and look it up. This isn't really part of the Hungarian Mod so I'll stop here.

 

[Bal-rog]

I agree too. I´m sorry if it were my replies that gave the thread a foul course...

On the other hand, I have the impression, that most of us has a similar approach to history and can see the difference between past and present. So this discussion wasn´t in vain. I wouldn´t say it was a quarrel, or even discussion, just sharing opinions, and they are not too far from each other.

 

[Infinit1]

I dislike the fact of restarting the game to play a Mod, so I am contemplating the idea of integrating this into the game and not having to worry about restarting the game. Is there anything I should know before I go ahead and try this? Any help is appreciated.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Just make a batch(.bat) file that contains the following:

del "%appdata%\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\cache" /q
Civilization4 mod="Mods\Magyar"
exit

or create a shortcut that stars civ4 with the mod="Mods\Magyar" parameter.

 

[Infinit1]

Or create a shortcut to the saved game file I am using. Thanks!

 

[Tomalak]

Boldog Karàcsonyt! - Merry Christmas! - Joyeux Noel!

 

[OzzyKP]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

 

[tofe99]

Hi everyody!

In the past few weeks I played some games with the Hungarian leaders provided by the 1.04 version of the mod, and I would like to thank every persons work that they've put in the development of it.

I really enjoy this mod!

(still Saint Stephen to try...)

Regards,
Tofe