HOF Games: 2x2x or not?

[Series1999]

Are all those high scores on the Hall of Fame based on 2x2x? A city size 120 seems doable only on 2x, for example (not that I've ever done it but I'm working on a chieftain masterpiece in 2x2x).

 

[Smash]

Not.

anything over 35-40 is done with food freights.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Any idea about a cities 'natural' size being 127? I've read this can be done without food caravans (from starlifter?). I too assumed they were referring to x2 production games, but....?

 

[Series1999]

So all those high scores are on 1x production???

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Correct. At least all of them I have looked at have been at x1 production.

 

[starlifter]

Are all those high scores on the Hall of Fame based on 2x2x?

Personally, I have no idea how to even do a 2X game, though I've read about people playing 2X games in these forums and now know what they are. I understand 2X games are common in MP.

When I did the Deity game that is in the HOF (two years ago, when I was learning how to play Civ II), I knew about food caravans, but did not know about the FCT (food caravan trick) and "super size" cities. All my growing was done via WLTP days and "normal" filling of food boxes. In other words, the hard way.

by Smash:

...
anything over 35-40 is done with food freights.
...

LOL, not in my games

! In my HOF game, I discovered my cities stopped at a size of 41, plus a little more if you timed the food supply just right as the city grew.

Now that I know a lot more about how Civ II works, I know why they stop the instant growth (democracy) at size 41... it's because the max number of happy citizens is 20, and so at 41, the celebration stops. The largest city I have ever "grown" is size 43, though in theory some can get to 45, given another 90 years and Pyramids/granary. I've had about five or ten reach size 42, and dozens reach size 41 (all done without the FCT, of course).

The trick to growing is to transform all the terrain to grassland (farmland), and try to have all 21 city squares of land in a city radius (no water). That will get a natural "max" city of 41. The city may get to 42 or 43 if you can time the growth (even sell aquaduct at size 38 or 39 if necessary, then rebuild it just before the food box fills). It depends on excess food... and the best way to get excess food is with wheat (or oasis).

Any idea about a cities 'natural' size being 127? I've read this can be done without food caravans (from starlifter?). I too assumed they were referring to x2 production games, but....?

I have never played, or even experimented, with a 2X game, SP or MP. Probably never will, as it seems unbalanced and I already lack the time to play a 1X game.

That said, the max size a city can ever be is (in theory) size 127. It is a game limitation. Unless you use the cheat mode, the only way to get a city that large is with about 180 food caravans, using the Food Caravan Trick (FCT). Of course, food freight will work just as well.

When I talk about a 'natural' size city, I mean one that is at it's max size that can be supported without food caravans. If you pump two food caravans per turn into a city, it will grow regardless of the natural food supply and regardless of the government/happiness situation.

I am not aware of any way to ever (under any circumstances) for a city to grow larger than size 46. Any city larger than size 46 was done with the FCT. But in practice, any city larger than about 43 or 44 was likely done with the FCT.

It is interesting to note that any city larger than size 37 can contribute nothing of use to your empire. That's because the citizens past the 37th have to be entertainers... they cannot be taxmen or scientists, and can't be used on terrain. But they will contribute one point to the overall score

.

So all those high scores are on 1x production???

I personally have always assumed so. It would seem quite unfair to compare a 2X game to a 1X game!

 

[allan]

How do you set up a "2x2x" game in SP? I've never seen such an option in my MGE version....

My largest was 39--it had a couple of hills which I didn't transform (one had wine). Anyway, since anything past 37 doesn't contribute to your empire, it's not something to really worry about....

 

[starlifter]

by Allan, posted September 05, 2001 09:56 PM
How do you set up a "2x2x" game in SP? I've never seen such an option in my MGE version....

Hmmmm... I do not know. I have never seen the 2X2X option in my Civ II MGE, either. But it does not seem sporting to use 2X anyway, at least in SP.

 

[shadowdale]

No 2x2x is purly a MP function - sp you'll have to start a MP game to get the option...

------------------
We are species 8472 - assimilation attempts are futile - the weak shall perish

No wait we are species 5618 and we got beer...... don't harm us!!!!!!

 

[Series1999]

HOW TO SET UP A 2X2X ONE-PLAYER GAME VS. AI
=== == === == = ==== ========== ==== === ==

Select multiplayer game (internet), start a game, choose "double moves of ground troops" and "double production." When it says "waiting for players," just start it as if you have multiple players, choose your civ, and AI will take the rest.

 

[allan]

Thanks.

from Starlifter: "But it does not seem sporting to use 2X anyway, at least in SP."

I was assuming that the AI would also have these abilities. Is that how it works, Series?

 

[Smash]

yes that is how it works.
Its not exactly 2x production though.
example:
on 1x, a new city on a grass river gets 2 science beakers.On 2x you also get 2 beakers.
..but specials are it...a whale on 1x gives 2 beakers but on 2x gives 4 beakers.
I won't get into the food or sheild situation.It is different than 1x and you need to adjust your play accordingly.Generally,the 1st few deity games at 2x are a pure learning experience.It goes very fast.Mich's by 2000bc type thing.
You more or less MUST find at least 1 whale to build.

The ai does much better.The deity ai with 2x grows very fast.Almost competetive....not quite but closer than 1x.

[This message has been edited by Smash (edited September 06, 2001).]

 

[starlifter]

Thanks for the info.


Has anyone ever heard of someone playing a 2X SP game? I've heard of 2X2X MP King level games, but have not observed any posts (one way or the other) about SP. Sounds like you're implying the AI gives a better accounting of itself at 2X, Smash... might be worth a try sometime

.

 

[Smash]

It does a little better.With the small food boxes of deity and the food of 2x they grow fast.Of course it all depends on the scrub but they will do things more human like.Like starting a wonder in 3000bc for example.

The only reason I know of to play a 2x game alone is to practice the 2x settings for MP.It is different and requires some adjustments.