Amadhe
Emperor of Nothing
Hello!
May inquire as to whether Rationalism’s incomplete policy been fully implemented yet?
May inquire as to whether Rationalism’s incomplete policy been fully implemented yet?
Hokath's Tweaks
- Thread starter hokath
- Start date
Bonjourno!
No, it turned out the column didn't work as advertised (and may be bugged anyway).
So instead I removed happiness->science and doubled the happiness->culture part
I need to do more work to quantify Rationalism's extra pop versus Industry's percentage modifiers, but I've played several games with Rationalism now and it feels pretty good.
I will upload my latest version in a minute. Contains some numbers balancing.
Edit: Uploaded.
No, it turned out the column didn't work as advertised (and may be bugged anyway).
So instead I removed happiness->science and doubled the happiness->culture part
Code:
-- Employment Law (was Empiricism)
(+1 Food per Citizen)
Gains +1 Production per Citizen
Loses 25% Growth in all Cities
Loses +3% Science per GW (up to 20%)
This is too Tall-specific, belongs in Freedom imo
Gains 50% of Happiness converted to CultureI will upload my latest version in a minute. Contains some numbers balancing.
Edit: Uploaded.
Last edited:
SwirlSlayer
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2019
- Messages
- 39
Hi, I just want to say that I enjoy this modmod a lot! After starting a few games with the Progress and Tradition trees, I have to say that Tradition feels way better with your tweaks than in normal Vox Populi. Tradition is far less fragile here since you have the same bonuses in satellite cities as a Progress civ would, but that bonus is delayed until you can build the requisite buildings. Progress therefore gets an edge when it comes to quickly constructing buildings (due to the +2 hammer policy), but Tradition civs can catch up later after building a council and forge.
I almost never took Tradition in normal VP because I always felt like I was falling behind the AI, but now with your tweaks I don't really have problems with that anymore. I now often seriously consider which policy tree I want between Tradition and Progress, and that's a really cool strategic decision I never really made before. I guess what I want to say is: thanks for the modmod! I'll probably be playing VP with this mod going forward.
I almost never took Tradition in normal VP because I always felt like I was falling behind the AI, but now with your tweaks I don't really have problems with that anymore. I now often seriously consider which policy tree I want between Tradition and Progress, and that's a really cool strategic decision I never really made before. I guess what I want to say is: thanks for the modmod! I'll probably be playing VP with this mod going forward.
No. Also if it loads after I think there is a good chance it will add a prereq monopoly (when they had all been deleted), which will basically prevent you from making a corporation at all.
I can make it compatible. Could you link me the most up to date version of the mod?
Note all: @Zares found a bug where if you take Progress AND Rationalism the happines/population policy will actually get worse. It's not gamebreaking, but you may wish to avoid for now. This is a quirk of the base VP tables and I've asked for a fix, hopefully soon(tm).
I can make it compatible. Could you link me the most up to date version of the mod?
Note all: @Zares found a bug where if you take Progress AND Rationalism the happines/population policy will actually get worse. It's not gamebreaking, but you may wish to avoid for now. This is a quirk of the base VP tables and I've asked for a fix, hopefully soon(tm).
Agiwan
Prince
- Joined
- May 11, 2021
- Messages
- 366
Hi, thank you for your help
Here (Link) you have the version for players that play without UCS and just after the version for players that play with UCS. There is a part of the code of Even more unique ressources that is related to the corporation, maybe we could just delete it to be able to play with your news corporation ?
I've been loving your shopping mall and World Trade Center additions since you introduced them in the Community Events modmod, so now is as good time as ever to point out that it's not possible to invest into WTC 
. Also, building it triggers an error with splash artwork texture or something. Sorry for lacking info at the moment - if you need screenshots/ logs, let me know!
Love your work, cheers!
. Also, building it triggers an error with splash artwork texture or something. Sorry for lacking info at the moment - if you need screenshots/ logs, let me know!Love your work, cheers!
@Agiwan Yes in the mean time you can probably safely delete. It will be a couple days for an update, I am not at home atm.
@Edaka Glad you like the additions! Yes, I came across this splash art issue in a recent game also (sadly the votes didn't save me from France...
), both issues will be fixed for next update.
@Edaka Glad you like the additions! Yes, I came across this splash art issue in a recent game also (sadly the votes didn't save me from France...
), both issues will be fixed for next update.New Version:
- Compatibility with Even More Resources. I changed the tooltip structure as well so it's easy to prepend new (new) resources.
- The above fixes to the World Trade Centre xml
- New Jail building in the Spy Rework
- New Pipeline and Supermarket (changed from the Pdan version -- note the incompatibility) Atomic Era buildings for you late-game aficionados
- "Glove Authority" policy rework where the yields on kill are replaced, here by yields on unit training (remember if you don't want to play with something just delete the file/folder)
- Mongolia UA change from tribute yields to horse yields. Neigh
. - Brazil 4UC change from Sambadrome to Embrapa at the request of discord.
- This also changes the Amazonas icon as @jarcast2 asked. I have consolidated (most) of the art into one atlas and consolidated new icons @azum4roll might need for congress implementation here also Spoiler :
Pipiskus
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2024
- Messages
- 139
Again, i believe you should tie Spy points to basic "Expand in CS to conduct a Diplomatic Mission", its already pretty useless function compared to Embassy as its effect is temporary and no one, i think even AI dont wanna spend their GP like that, it would help elevating its value. I also liked new Spy Wonder, but i think we need one more to make this gamestyle more unique. I think we should also reevaluate spy levels and gained NP as well, maybe make building an Embassy or smth else to level up one of your spies, make levels open up unique missions, etc. Maybe it would be neat to make new civilian spy unit (we need different name though) like in civ 4 that would be invisible and would boost NP gained when expanded near rival city, and that would be able to pillage Embassies for example.
Yes the"Expand in CS to conduct a Diplomatic Mission" is the obvious place except for the fact that, most of the time, you have no choice but to use it (when all Embassy are founded). Because I specifically don't want a proliferation of Spies, I want to avoid this. However, combining the Embassy into the Diplomatic Mission might be an idea? (so if there's already an Embassy it just doesn't give one)
Yes, one more Spy wonder would be good. Maybe quite early. I was thinking maybe an Assassin Stronghold for the Medieval era.
I will reevaluate missions -- adding more and altering cost -- but I'm having some UI trouble at the moment.
I considered adding some kind of spy functionality to diplomatic units as you described. This will require large scale AI change though, so it's not on the initial wishlist. The other DLL changes I need are hopefully fairly straightforward, but AI changes are more cumbersome, especially for something map-wide like this. But good idea.
Yes, one more Spy wonder would be good. Maybe quite early. I was thinking maybe an Assassin Stronghold for the Medieval era.
I will reevaluate missions -- adding more and altering cost -- but I'm having some UI trouble at the moment.
I considered adding some kind of spy functionality to diplomatic units as you described. This will require large scale AI change though, so it's not on the initial wishlist. The other DLL changes I need are hopefully fairly straightforward, but AI changes are more cumbersome, especially for something map-wide like this. But good idea.
So if this mod loads after them then it will just delete them from the table. I.e. the corporations just ignore them, but otherwise everything is fine.
If they load after this mod then they might add a resource requirement to certain corporations, and that will affect building the HQ.
I can add checks for the three civs you mentioned (and assign their resource to one of the 'new' corporations).
If they load after this mod then they might add a resource requirement to certain corporations, and that will affect building the HQ.
I can add checks for the three civs you mentioned (and assign their resource to one of the 'new' corporations).
So I played a full game as 4UC England with everything aside from the pikeman and the authority rework. Went tradition - statecraft - rationalism. Won a science victory on turn 353, standard speed, emperor, huge community, terra spawn setting, 9 players. Won 1 turn before I would've won diplomatically. I'll just vent a couple of thoughts without, not really constructively, if you bear with me.
Re: Rationalism: it's amazing just how strong the great scientist faith purchase and bulb bonus is. It definitely feels like the reason to take this tree. What's funny is that it's always been there, it's just trying out your mod made me realise this more than ever. Feels like the balance of the whole tree revolves around that, which makes basically every other policy in the tree feel like a stepping stone on the way to that finisher.
Of note, that game the world science initiative was passed early, which had a significant effect on great scientist spawn rate.
The instant culture and golden age point policy seems flavorful, but I just have a hunch that it may be too weak. Or maybe the placement feels awkward, because I was inclined to pick it as late as possible, thus actually delaying the progression by getting the culture boost too late. I don't know, just feels counterintuitive, like it belongs on a finisher / last policy.
The happiness policy feels like it doesn't give enough happiness for the amount of growth the whole tree stimulates. I was barely keeping my numbers above 50%. 1 happiness per 8 pop just doesn't feel impactful.
Combine that with the fact that the 50% happiness to culture conversion is also not very impactful. It was giving me about 100 flat culture when I was making 3k per turn.
On a side note, tradition feels much nicer than before. Although it's slightly jarring to try to keep track of all the bonus yields on all the ancient buildings. That's okay, though.
The factory rework made me realize how bonkers the VP factories are, provided you have enough coal. I like your version better. The corporations are also a great improvement, kudos! This game I went Trader Sid's, which seemed to pack the right amount of punch.
The spy building line is a superb addition to the game, too. Makes the aggressive spy missions much more worthwhile, which is welcome, I think. However, the provided instant yields feel a little too over the place, and don't make intuitive sense to me, idk.
The added spy security feels much welcome. I've felt that there was a lack of ways to raise it in VP.
In conclusion, all of your additions/changes felt meaningful and thoughtful, so I hope you don't stop doing what you do.
Re: Rationalism: it's amazing just how strong the great scientist faith purchase and bulb bonus is. It definitely feels like the reason to take this tree. What's funny is that it's always been there, it's just trying out your mod made me realise this more than ever. Feels like the balance of the whole tree revolves around that, which makes basically every other policy in the tree feel like a stepping stone on the way to that finisher.
Of note, that game the world science initiative was passed early, which had a significant effect on great scientist spawn rate.
The instant culture and golden age point policy seems flavorful, but I just have a hunch that it may be too weak. Or maybe the placement feels awkward, because I was inclined to pick it as late as possible, thus actually delaying the progression by getting the culture boost too late. I don't know, just feels counterintuitive, like it belongs on a finisher / last policy.
The happiness policy feels like it doesn't give enough happiness for the amount of growth the whole tree stimulates. I was barely keeping my numbers above 50%. 1 happiness per 8 pop just doesn't feel impactful.
Combine that with the fact that the 50% happiness to culture conversion is also not very impactful. It was giving me about 100 flat culture when I was making 3k per turn.
On a side note, tradition feels much nicer than before. Although it's slightly jarring to try to keep track of all the bonus yields on all the ancient buildings. That's okay, though.
The factory rework made me realize how bonkers the VP factories are, provided you have enough coal. I like your version better. The corporations are also a great improvement, kudos! This game I went Trader Sid's, which seemed to pack the right amount of punch.
The spy building line is a superb addition to the game, too. Makes the aggressive spy missions much more worthwhile, which is welcome, I think. However, the provided instant yields feel a little too over the place, and don't make intuitive sense to me, idk.
The added spy security feels much welcome. I've felt that there was a lack of ways to raise it in VP.
In conclusion, all of your additions/changes felt meaningful and thoughtful, so I hope you don't stop doing what you do.
Thanks for the write-up.
Yes I think the Great Scientist issue is really a tough one. I'm currently of the opinion that probably the instant-bulb science is just a problem that will always wreck the game's pacing; same goes for the Writer bulb for culture. @Flamingcheesepie has a good idea to replace these with a +X% yield for Y turns type bonus, a bit like the Musician, and I think this will make things a lot healthier.
On the Happiness to Culture. Yes it's a question of what the power level of such a policy should be. If I have 20 Happiness (not unreasonable later game number) then I get 10 Culture. That's a fair bit for a single policy, and this one also gives +1 food and production per citizen on top of that. So is this enough? I feel it is, but I would be open to an argument the value should be something else.
The instant culture/GAP is meant to create this choice where maybe you delay for more yields, or maybe you go early to get to the final policy asap due to its higher strength. As far as the Happiness number goes, I agree 1/8 may be too weak. We currently have the annoying bug with Progress's policy with the similar effect (1 per 15 pop, so I made this roughly twice as good!) as well so that's perhaps an argument to change it to something else entirely. A possibility would be giving happiness to a line of buildings, like any growth building (granary->aqueduct->grocer->etc.) but I liked how this was different to Industry. If we kept it as happiness per pop, what do you think the denominator should be?
Spy mission yields I mainly designed around growth for smaller cities (both food and borders), but I admit the intuition leaves a lot to the imagination. Jail gives yields from Spies because... outlaws from the Jail are recruited to aid the mission? At least the Science on Printing House follows! Soon I will update and we get the Casino as well. I think the gameplay loop makes sense overall, but the numbers probably still need work! However I'm not too worried about the precise details until the actual DLL changes can be made.
Yes I think the Great Scientist issue is really a tough one. I'm currently of the opinion that probably the instant-bulb science is just a problem that will always wreck the game's pacing; same goes for the Writer bulb for culture. @Flamingcheesepie has a good idea to replace these with a +X% yield for Y turns type bonus, a bit like the Musician, and I think this will make things a lot healthier.
On the Happiness to Culture. Yes it's a question of what the power level of such a policy should be. If I have 20 Happiness (not unreasonable later game number) then I get 10 Culture. That's a fair bit for a single policy, and this one also gives +1 food and production per citizen on top of that. So is this enough? I feel it is, but I would be open to an argument the value should be something else.
The instant culture/GAP is meant to create this choice where maybe you delay for more yields, or maybe you go early to get to the final policy asap due to its higher strength. As far as the Happiness number goes, I agree 1/8 may be too weak. We currently have the annoying bug with Progress's policy with the similar effect (1 per 15 pop, so I made this roughly twice as good!) as well so that's perhaps an argument to change it to something else entirely. A possibility would be giving happiness to a line of buildings, like any growth building (granary->aqueduct->grocer->etc.) but I liked how this was different to Industry. If we kept it as happiness per pop, what do you think the denominator should be?
Spy mission yields I mainly designed around growth for smaller cities (both food and borders), but I admit the intuition leaves a lot to the imagination. Jail gives yields from Spies because... outlaws from the Jail are recruited to aid the mission? At least the Science on Printing House follows! Soon I will update and we get the Casino as well. I think the gameplay loop makes sense overall, but the numbers probably still need work! However I'm not too worried about the precise details until the actual DLL changes can be made.
Last edited:
Updated OP
Two new modules, see the third post
Note this subsumes the old Supermarket and Pipeline buildings.
Note Casino building is also added but under the Spy Rework section.
Changed happiness per pop on Emancipation (Rationalism) to 1/6 from above discussion.
Changed Corporations to be compatible with various requested mods.
Changed Hexxon Refinery to give Border Growth instead of unlimited Oil and Coal. HQ now grants flat +5 Oil and Coal scaling by +1 with franchises; prompted by github ticket balking at unlimited oil.
n.b. some of the corporation buildings I would change in light of the New Buildings module, but one thing at a time!
Several new changes in the Misc Module: Bananas -1 Food/+1 Science; +1 prod on flat Desert; Garden +2 Tourism to Lakes; Public School and Broadcast Tower scalers halved
Two new modules, see the third post
Hokath's Tweaks
Since the special session of the VP Congress will delay new proposals quite a bit, I am jumping on the bandwagon and making my (database implementable) proposed changes to base VP available. Please find attached a single mod with neat little folders you can delete as you wish. It includes...
forums.civfanatics.com
Note Casino building is also added but under the Spy Rework section.
Changed happiness per pop on Emancipation (Rationalism) to 1/6 from above discussion.
Changed Corporations to be compatible with various requested mods.
Changed Hexxon Refinery to give Border Growth instead of unlimited Oil and Coal. HQ now grants flat +5 Oil and Coal scaling by +1 with franchises; prompted by github ticket balking at unlimited oil.
n.b. some of the corporation buildings I would change in light of the New Buildings module, but one thing at a time!
Several new changes in the Misc Module: Bananas -1 Food/+1 Science; +1 prod on flat Desert; Garden +2 Tourism to Lakes; Public School and Broadcast Tower scalers halved
Yeah, 1/6 happiness sounds better for a start. Gonna try out the new version, cheers!
Is it possible for you to tweak also and put the rest of the buildings from the Few More Buildings pack in your tweaks?
Are these tweaks completely up to date?
Also, may I play only with the buildings?
Are these tweaks completely up to date?
Also, may I play only with the buildings?
Last edited:
