Hokath's Changes

[hokath]

I don't know if the patch has gone through yet, but when I initially made these policy changes the AI didn't actually value border growth on tiles. So the difference between default behaviour is just +1 Culture. Point being, even without the modmod, the AI would probably do this.

Now, is this desirable? Well if we are going to give yields to Forts/Citadels then it follows you want Cities to work them! So if they are desirable we would want to see them built.
In this screenshot I see that they aren't preferred over village on road, except it seems where it makes a canal (which the AI loves).
It also means that if you get attacked, you have many forts to garrison, giving you an inherent defensive benefit that other trees don't have.

So overall I think it's the intended effect, yes.
Also note that in the absence of lots of coast its one of the trees only ways to generate Science, so that also favors using it as is probably one of your high-priority yields.

 

[Edaka]

I think there's too much instant food on the spy buildings, specifically the food bonus on jails seems somewhat gratuitous. Penitentiaries are fine because they come online so much later. Also, they make more sense thematically. Does swapping the instant food on jails for e.g. golden age points make sense?

 

[hokath]

Initially I had border growth there, and it felt a bit unimportant so I moved it to the Penitentiary which had the Food, then splitting the Food between the two buildings.

I could revert this change? Is there a particular reason you feel the instant food is too much? Are you getting "too big" or similar?

 

[Edaka]

It's mostly a hunch, but I've noticed that the with two spies ( huge map) with jails just erased my supply problems that I've been having till renaissance. Suddenly my cities were growing noticeably faster, it just seemed off. Also it didn't feel earned, you know? I'm thinking maybe just the food from the penitentiary is enough already, doesn't have to be more. Besides, having a somewhat unimportant yield on the jail is probavly alright, since it's first building in a line anyway.

 

[hokath]

Hmm yes the map size scaling is a bit of an issue atm: you get so very many spies on Huge!
In the mean time we can try it back with BGP on Jail

 

[Nightmare Dusk]

Oh man, i just found out about your tweaks (I exclusively use Agiwan's modpacks to play nowadays) and as I read through the tweaks I am loving all of them! (At least on paper, need to test in game) I'm glad i heard about it and want to thank you for you work!

 

[Tekamthi]

Recon Rework
Recently scout units have changed to address movement concerns, but I think there are two big problemos still remaining:
1) The map is revealed too early. Your starting Pathfinder explores too much of the world by itself too soon. (There is a concomitant 'super scout' problem)
2) The Trailblazer line is required for scouting but results in a much weaker unit. This is especially a problem for an AI with a Recon-line UU.

Below I've made changes to address these two things. By making the Trailblazer line into combat promotions based on terrain, we choose two different flavors of "light infantry". The movement style and recon ability are now largely determined by the combat class and fix the identity of the units.
To give more terrain bonuses to interact with I've also added more CS interactions on things like Desert and Tundra. This also just generally improves the combat map in my opinion.
I have also added a significant number of additional promotions for Recon units, as well as changed some prereqs for existing promotions to fit accordingly with the overall endgoal.

I love all the thought that went into this. Will give it a shot at some point. For now just some theorycraft analysis: I like many of the suggestions but on balance it may have too many situational specializations for the AI to grasp. The AI isn't good at picking promos for specific niche purposes.

I also love that the community finally implemented some changes to recon! Thanks @Recursive ! With more dll options available now as well, I think this area of the game is worth further attention.

Specifically I agree with the two problem areas you've identified. Since we're talking modmod anyway, I'm thinking we use some lua to assign these terrain and feature bonuses on a completely situational basis. Ie recon attacks into marsh (and survives), it gains +10% marsh attack bonus for ten turns. And then we leave the promo choices themselves to the more all-applicable features... Anyway I'll probably move this idea into my own recon threads eventually; thanks for the inspiration!

 

[hokath]

Completely agree, but I think in general AI assignment of promotions is basically random. At least when it has the situational promotions, the combat AI can take advantage of them.

 

[AndreyK]

Found this mod, trying it now with Afganistan. Really like it from description, especially change to factories and Corporations, workers to improve water tiles.
When playing with MWfVP then Great Blue Hole can't be improved by worker.

 

[hokath]

Hmmm ok. It must have a custom improvement not affected by my change. I will try to make compatible.

 

[hokath]

Updated Version!
2 more New Buildings

Spoiler :

  Mass Transit (Electronics)
  -- +3 Production and Tourism
  -- +20% All Yields output as instant boost on new Citizen Birth
  -- +10 Food to all Power Plants
  -- -1 Poverty
  -- Required 2 Iron and an Industrial Connection
    Intended to be a greedy building for the late game. Risky if you might need the Iron.

  Police Station moved to Radar

  Industrial Estate (Mobile Tactics)
  -- +6 Food and +4 Production
  -- 15% of Investments and Purchases converted into Production and Border Growth Points
  -- +8 to Land and Sea Trade Routes
  -- +8/+8 to City and Owner for incoming Trade Routes
  -- +12/+12 Internal Route yields
  -- Requires Industrial Connection

A new module for Ideology balance

Spoiler :

Order
  Overall probably the best ideology in base VP
  The "pure wide" is naturally great fun to play
  However some of the tenets are pretty dead weight

  Dictatorship of the Proletariat
  -- increased to +8 (from 7)
    8 is a lucky number

  Resettlement
  -- Free pop increased to +6
    Considering how late we are, +3 pop is quite small, make it meaningful
  -- +2 instant pop removed
    How does this even work, lol? People ex nihilo. Anyway I want to move it
  -- +10 Food from City Connections
    I am thinking particularly of the snow city. Good science yields but no growth
    Since historically this was what they did, makes great sense to enable here!

  Great Leap Forward
  -- Renamed to Atomic Spies
    Calling something GLF when it is meant to benefit you is a bit lolz
    In spirit this is really a 5 year plan anyway, and we have that
  -- +1 Science per 3 non-Specialists removed
  -- Free Atomic Bomb
    Here is where I would put my Fuchs ;)

  Cultural Revoltution
    Name dodgy for same reasons as GLF, but ok, need some Chinese representation
    100 flowers campaign also no bueno...
    I should read less Wild Swans? Could have "Struggle Meetings" but still dodgy :(
    -- Gains +1 Science *and Culture* from every *4* non-Specialist Citizens
      makes way more sense here, I think
    -- +1 Happiness from Factories changed to +5 from Refineries
      we already have wide happiness on Public School earlier.
      This is a more varied version that fits better with Chinese communism (GLF)
    -- +25% Tourism against less Happy changed to +25% Tourism against other Order civs
      there's a strong chance you aren't more happy, this is moved from T3 to make room
      feels very Warsaw pact, but also the way Maoism influenced other nations and the effect that had on the Soviet Union.
      In the words of Judy Dench, "Christ, I miss the Cold War"

  Academy of Sciences
    -- Removed +2 Science from Research Labs
      Boring and minor
    -- Gain +6 Tourism from City Connections
      There is only 1 culture victory T2 tenet but 3 science ones
      This reflects the scientific communities that developed in the Warsaw pact countries
      which, in many fields, outpaced the west and had great international relations

  Iron Curtain
    -- +5/+5 Production/Gold from City Connections changed to +4 to All Yields
      Note: if you don't know "All Yields" is the first 6, Food--Faith
      This is more befitting a T3 Ideology Tenet powerlevel, the ultimate wide bonus

  Social Realism
    -- Shared Ideology +25% modified removed
    -- Tourism reduction per extra City reduced by flat 3% each
      How do you do wide Tourism when this penalty exists
      (and since recent congress, goes to 100% instead of capping at 90)?
      Use this column! Currently it's at 5%? So this is now 2%

  Spaceflight Pioneers
    -- No change, just fixed strange wording... *Order* :D

Autocracy
  Overall want to make a bit more distinct from Order
  So more tall than wide, with yields for fighting and less from annexing

  Syndicalism
  -- Name changed to Third Position
    makes way more sense to name it like this lol

  New World Order
  -- Name semi-reverted to Secure Borders

  Third Alternative
  -- Name changed to New Order
    This is the economic/social revolution tenet
  -- Strategic increased reduced to 50%
    double was a bit too trivialising
  -- Cities generate 2% Culture and Gold per Great Work (caps at 20%)
    loot the world, have a party
 
  Lebensraum
  -- Citadel radius boost removed
    Nightmare balancing this, let's just not
  -- Gain 300% CS as Border Growth Points on Kill
    Should be fun.

  Police State
  -- Construction speed bonuses removed
    too close to Secure Borders
  -- City Security boost removed
    You are not going for science victory, and more fun to benefit from your own spies
  -- Happiness changed to Police Station from Courthouse
    idea is to have a bit more puppet/tall in Autocracy, more wide in Order
  -- 3% Production in Capital for every 100 Spy Points (capping at 30%)
    Better spy bonus for tall and militaristic
  -- Yield Penalty in Puppets reduced by -25%

  Cult of Personality
  -- Warscore mechanic removed
    incentivises not signing a peace treaty (though you want the historic event)
    AI doesnt understand this
  -- Gain 150% CS as Tourism on Kill
    now we are cooking on gas!

Freedom
  Many of these a just a bit weak. This is clearly trying to be the ideology for "pure tall"
  So lets add some more stuff to do that!

  Covert Action
  -- extra network points removed
  -- +3% Gold in the Capital for every 100 Spy Points (caps at 30%)
    FlamingCheesePie change I really like.
    More interesting to have this really focussed on city states and less offensive
    Economic benefit for tall with spies already exists in Statecraft but this supports it

  Universal Suffrage
  -- 1 Happiness in all Cities removed
    lame bonus
  -- 1 Happiness in the Capital for every 3 Policies adopted
    super tall support

  Economic Union
  -- 6 Gold from trading with Freedom Civs removed
    dont make me laugh!
  -- 5 Free Stock Exchanges
    Good synergy with tree, limit also favours tall
  -- 10% more Tourism from Open Borders and Trade Routes
    More varied Cultural victory support
  -- 2 Trade Routes reduced to 1
    balance power budget

  Creative Expression
  -- renamed Freedom of Speech
  -- Tourism and GAP bonus to cultural buildings line removed
    this was a wide bonus with most buildings already constructed...
  -- Cities gain +4% science for every Great Work (caps at 20%)
    [Assumes you are using the module that removes this from Rationalism]
    This is one of the ultimate tall bonuses and the culture-science synergy is super cool!
    Have to be careful about +% science elsewhere, see Space Procurement.

  New Deal
  -- Cities generate +10% Gold and Tourism during WLTKD
    Effect on GPTI is good but just too weak for a T2 tenet

  Universal Healthcare
  -- 100 Food in the Capital when you expend a GP, scaling with Era
    Again cool effects but a bit weak for T2 when many Hospital already built
    This is another super tall bonus

  Media Culture
  -- renamed Public Broadcasting
    Bit negative for the Social Democracy tree. Might make a comeback in Prosperity one day
  -- Stadium bonuses removed
  -- Broadcast Tower bonuses are now +10% Culture and Tourism
  -- +10% Culture and Tourism from Golden Ages
    Given the Golden Age synergy of pure tall, this is a great capstone trait
  -- +20% Tourism to Civs with less Happiness
    Given the way the tree should be played, you should get this vs everyone!

  Space Procurement
  -- removed 20% Science from Spaceship Factory
    comes very late and we have the strong Great Work boost earlier, now
  -- +400% Science from Trade Routes
    interesting bonus. you are tech leader but with culture or diplomatic bonuses
    your trade routes still get some science so this still works well!
    peace or defend your routes is more active gameplay. if 5x is too high/low tbd

Industrial Trees: Industry Division of Labour Policy now gives +4/+4 Prod/Gold from City Connections, instead of 33% City Connection Yields (this was too "thick" for my vision of Industry, I realised. It will return...)
Misc: Fixed above incompatibility with More Wonders Blue Hole
Misc: Fixed bug where Jail would not grant +1/+1 Prod/Gold to Quarries
Misc: [Purely technical change] reverted the +1 Prod move to Work Boats (was going to make Work Boats buildable on certain coast tiles but abandoned it)
Civ Balance: Reverted Siam to 100% bonus. Just neater for the Resources this way, and they keep getting slapped in my games lol.

 

[azum4roll]

  Academy of Sciences
    -- Removed 5 Free Research Labs
      Didn't make great sense with the 100% Production Boost
    -- Gain +6 Tourism from City Connections
      There is only 1 culture victory T2 tenet but 3 science ones
      This reflects the scientific communities that developed in the Warsaw pact countries
      which, in many fields, outpaced the west and had great international relations

Huge nerf! You're supposed to get the free research labs way sooner than you get the tech for it.

  Third Alternative
  -- Name changed to New Order
    This is the economic/social revolution tenet
  -- Strategic increased reduced to 50%
    double was a bit too trivialising
  -- Cities generate 2% Culture and Gold per Great Work (caps at 20%)
    loot the world, have a party

  Creative Expression
  -- renamed Freedom of Speech
  -- Tourism and GAP bonus to cultural buildings line removed
    this was a wide bonus with most buildings already constructed...
  -- Cities gain +4% science for every Great Work (caps at 20%)
    [Assumes you are using the module that removes this from Rationalism]
    This is one of the ultimate tall bonuses and the culture-science synergy is super cool!
    Have to be careful about +% science elsewhere, see Space Procurement.

I don't get the point of having a cap. Nobody's going to count if one of their cities have more than 10/5 great works.

  Covert Action
  -- extra network points removed
  -- +3% Gold in the Capital for every 100 Spy Points (caps at 30%)
    FlamingCheesePie change I really like.
    More interesting to have this really focussed on city states and less offensive
    Economic benefit for tall with spies already exists in Statecraft but this supports it

Cap is pointless here too. You can't get more than 1000 spy points.

  Universal Healthcare
  -- 100 Food in the Capital when you expend a GP, scaling with Era
    Again cool effects but a bit weak for T2 when many Hospital already built
    This is another super tall bonus

Similarly, you're going to get this before having the tech for Hospitals. These free building tenets are really strong IMO.

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

The cap for spy points and % yields from Great Works are hard-coded, so unless some dll modder decides to chip in and add some new defines...

 

[hokath]

The Academy of Sciences nerf is from an earlier version, and I didn't manage to update changelog. Sorry about that. It is actually the +2 Science part I removed in the end.

As cheesepie says, the hard caps are just default DLL, so they are there for text consistency.
However, Great Work cap does have a gameplay consequence because if the base % is large (like the 4% in Freedom), it encourages you to spread the Great Works around (does the AI understand this? not sure).

I agree Free building tenets are good, but the Hospital one I usually don't manage to (consistently) get before researching Biology. I guess it depends on relative Science and Culture rate (and this is more for the Cultural pathway). I have also nerfed Hospital in the New Buildings module so it is also informed by that.

 

[hokath]

Mini update.
I had these buildings for the Spy_Rework, but since that's in a partial state I figure they can come live in the New Buildings section with the single change of no 100 Spy Points!

Spoiler :

  General Post Office (Military Science)
    This is a National Wonder
  -- Requires a Coaling Station
  -- 100 Spy Points
  -- 1 Civil Servant slot and Great Person Point per turn
  -- +1 Production, Gold, and Tourism to Civil Servants in the City
  -- Grants a Free Post Office
  -- +5 City Security in all Cities
  -- +10% City Connection yields in all Cities
  -- +2 Tourism for City State Friend, +2 Food and Tourism for City State Ally

  Sorting Office (Combustion)
    sits between Hotel and Airport in the (new) trade line
  -- +2 Tourism and 5 City Security
  -- +3 Gold to Land Trade Routes
  -- +3/+3 to City and Owner for incoming Trade Routes
  -- +20% City Connection yields locally
  -- 30% of Investments and Purchases converted into Border Growth Points

Send me a postcard.

 

[jarcast2]

Hello,
Thanks for the great work once again !
I have an issue with the new luxuries when using the Dutch changes in Hokath's tweaks where the civ doesn't recognize the tiles as luxuries for the +1 gold/culture
Does it have to do with mod dependencies/references ?

Yes, the new resources loads after Hokath's modmod so its changes do not apply to the new resources.
This can be easily solved with a SQL trigger.

Open MODS\Hokaths Proposals\Civ_Balance\ Netherlands.sql with notepad and add this at the end of the file, save and close.

CREATE TRIGGER Hokath_Netherlands AFTER INSERT ON Resources
WHEN NEW.Happiness>0
BEGIN
    INSERT INTO Trait_ResourceYieldChanges
            (TraitType, ResourceType, YieldType, Yield)
    SELECT     'TRAIT_LUXURY_RETENTION', NEW.Type, 'YIELD_CULTURE', 1 UNION ALL
    SELECT     'TRAIT_LUXURY_RETENTION', NEW.Type, 'YIELD_GOLD', 1;
END;

 

[Suij]

Works perfectly thank you !

Edit : also had to remove Quartz as requirement for Stone Works in Building_LocalResourceOrs

 

[hokath]

Yes, the new resources loads after Hokath's modmod so its changes do not apply to the new resources.

I have placed a reference to the Camels and Quartz in this modinfo so if you are using a new version (and you cleared the cache), the load order should be correct and you don't need to make the changes Jarcast gave above.

 

[gwennog]

I have placed a reference to the Camels and Quartz in this modinfo so if you are using a new version (and you cleared the cache), the load order should be correct and you don't need to make the changes Jarcast gave above.

Placing a reference in the modinfo does not work for sure, at least for all the (numerous) tests that I was able to do. A trigger is needed to be sure of a good implementation.
Or if you have a "miracle" recipe, I'm interested

 

[adan_eslavo]

Placing a reference in the modinfo does not work for sure, at least for all the (numerous) tests that I was able to do. A trigger is needed to be sure of a good implementation.
Or if you have a "miracle" recipe, I'm interested

Clean cache. When you do, references start working again.