Holy War

[Ratsock]

Does anyone else think that adding Holy Wars would be an interesting addition? Basically how I see it might work would be like this:

Any civ that controls the holy city for a certain religion could (for a certain cost) declare a holy war on another civ. This other civ would have to be a different state religion than your own. Any city (in any civilization) with your religion would get some hapiness bonus if that city's civ is at war with the "heathen" civ and one unhapiness point if they are NOT at war with the "heathens". A holy war would last a certain number of turns.

This would add a little more incentive to spread your religion around in order to get a bit of support for any wars you might want to fight. The downside from not participating in the holy war isn't major enough to force everyone into wars at your every whim and the benefit from participating in the war means you're able to fight for longer because your war weariness is being offset. And it adds a little bit more character to the religious aspect of the game.

This framework would be generic across all the religions so we could hold Crusades, Jihads, etc.

 

[Half Fast]

Sounds like fun. I'd love to have a good excuse to go to war. Im sick of running over civs just because they're sorta in my way. Its definately a part of history.

 

[MRM]

Would be a cool idea, but i would make it different. A holy war is decleared when a holy city is controled by infidels - for example one civ has founded hinduism and buddism, and now hinduism as state religion, butother civs have buddism as state religion, then the buddist civs can join together in a holy war to liberate their holy city ...
This has the advantage ( for game balance ) , that religion grabbing won't have only benefits.

 

[Naokaukodem]

what prevents you to actually make a Holy with the actual Civ4? A Holy war is just a war, only the causes are different.

 

[Ratsock]

Would be a cool idea, but i would make it different. A holy war is decleared when a holy city is controled by infidels - for example one civ has founded hinduism and buddism, and now hinduism as state religion, butother civs have buddism as state religion, then the buddist civs can join together in a holy war to liberate their holy city ...
This has the advantage ( for game balance ) , that religion grabbing won't have only benefits.

hmm.. interesting idea, but religious wars haven't always been over holy cities in the past. Basically just the crusades were.

what prevents you to actually make a Holy with the actual Civ4? A Holy war is just a war, only the causes are different.

Ok i have absolutely no idea what you just said...

 

[MRM]

hmm.. interesting idea, but religious wars haven't always been over holy cities in the past. Basically just the crusades were.

Of course there are other reasons for holy wars too - but this one would be easy to implement ( and I like the idea of having a reason ) and it would balance the advantage of having many holy cities - and IMO such a balance is missing in the game

 

[Zydor]

It would be a PR nightmare - doubt Firaxis would go anywhere near it

 

[Pragmatic]

There's a Religious Crusade mod that forces the civilization to adopt the prevailing religion in their civ. So, for instance, if you built the Shrine, had the religion in most of your cities, and so on, you'd be that religion. It's all based on points.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146392

ReligiousCrusades:

The ReligiousCrusades mod is designed to create true religious animosity. To accomplish this, it does the following:

1) The state religion is assigned automatically.
2) Any two Empires with different state religions are automatically at war
3) Any two Empires with the same religion are automatically at peace

The way the state religion is decided is based on the following point scale:

1 point per population
2 points per Temple
1 point per Monastery
3 points per Cathedral
5 points per Shrine
1 point per population in founding city

The points for each religion present in an Empire are calculated, and the religion with the highest point value automatically becomes the state religion. In the case of a tie, the current state religion is maintained. Checks are made dynamically, so any time an event takes place that can alter the point values, they are recalculated.

An Empire can only have no state religion if it has no religions present in its Empire. An Empire with no state religion will not be at war with any other Empires. Or, to put it differently, an Empire must have a religion to be at war. This can only be avoided by maintaining Closed Borders, and not founding any religions. Obviously this is its own penalty.

Attempting to found all the religions is also risky. If the wrong religion spreads to the wrong Empire, they will automatically go to war, closing their borders and preventing other religions from spreading.

Beware of switching sides too often. Although Empires with your religion cannot go to war with you, that does not mean they are certain to like you. If you've switched religions in the past, they are very likely to have a lot of "You declared war on us" negative penalties, dampening relations greatly.

 

[Ratsock]

It would be a PR nightmare - doubt Firaxis would go anywhere near it

I dont think so. Since the religious war of each religion would be pretty much identical. Its not like im suggesting only the muslims and christians get them
Also, Medieval: total war did have jihads and crusades and they came out of it just fine

 

[MusicLaunch]

hmm.. interesting idea, but religious wars haven't always been over holy cities in the past. Basically just the crusades were.

Ok i have absolutely no idea what you just said...

I think he meant "what's the difference between declaring war normally and a holy war?"

I mean, you could have your own "holy war": just attack an AI, then raid and pillage everything until you capture the holy city. (Sounds a lot like fun too =P )

 

[Aku Armoton]

Modern holy war units in game could be :

Muslim nations - Terrorist unit
Rest of the world - American world police unit

 

[MRM]

I think he meant "what's the difference between declaring war normally and a holy war?"

I mean, you could have your own "holy war": just attack an AI, then raid and pillage everything until you capture the holy city. (Sounds a lot like fun too =P )

You can declear war on any civ for any reason you want to imagine - the AI not. The AI won't gang up and try to liberate a holy city from you or an other AI - that' the main difference. And IMO you should get no happinessbonus from a state religion as long as a holy city is under control of a rival religion.

 

[Ratsock]

Yep, what MRM said
Basically I like his idea of not getting hapiness bonus unless you have the holy city (you should still get the standard bonus from temple though). However, you could possibly get the hapiness bonus if u have an open borders agreement with the civ that has the holy city (allow ur peasants to go on pillgramages )

This also increases the value of waging holy wars. Civs of a certain religion could band together to take a holy city then open their borders and share the hapiness and culture from having the religion

Of course there are other reasons for holy wars too - but this one would be easy to implement ( and I like the idea of having a reason ) and it would balance the advantage of having many holy cities - and IMO such a balance is missing in the game

Exactly Basically if you hog all the religions then you just get a lot of people very pissed off at u Its good to shrare once in a while

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Modern holy war units in game could be :

Muslim nations - Terrorist unit
Rest of the world - American world police unit

Lets get this modded in ASAP.

 

[VeXeD]

Modern holy war units in game could be :

Muslim nations - Terrorist unit
Rest of the world - American world police unit

LOL now thats a pr problem lol American world police unit????

 

[Half Fast]

Aku Armorton Im not sure if your being funny or jingoistic with that American world police unit. With respect I have to say its the worst idea I ever heard, but no one is stopping you from making a mod.

 

[Aku Armoton]

Sorry if I angered someone with my suggestion, but that world police thing came from Team America movie from makers of South Park. And it sounded like funny idea....again sorry. =)