Homophobia associated with higher rates of psychoticism

[Formaldehyde]

I don't think mosques or churches should ban people with psychological disorders.

Why would they possibly want to do that, especially if they tithe?

It's not like they had a choice regarding their psychological disabilities. Maybe they were born that way.

Hmm. Are you speculating that homophobia might be genetic instead of learned, particularly by being exposed to it in a religious setting?

This study didn't state those with these particular psychological disorders are homophobic. It stated that those who were found to be homophobic had a higher incidence of these psychological disorders.

Forma, 74% were Catholic, the remaining identifying as agnostic. I don't believe there was any follow up here, though the discussion acknowledges the role religion plays in homophobia.

I thought what an odd distribution until I read they are Italian college students.

However, they bothered to correlate how gender played a significant role. Yet they didn't do so with religion even though they had a fairly large data set for both groups.

Do you live under a rock? It is evident if you interact with society at all. All populations.

Indeed. It is as if it is a national secret that Republican congressmen still refuse to give homosexuals the very same rights as everybody else.

 

[Syno]

Homosexuals aren't living under oppression, guys. We let them stay alive, after all. What more could they want? It's a positive environment to exist in.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, most times they are allowed to stay alive. And it does seem to be getting a bit better, except for the occasional knife attack in Israel and similar incidents.


Link to video.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Better childcare and better youth education will go a long way in shifting this effect.

Right! Tell the kid he's gay before it is to late!

Spoiler :

Before he becomes a psychotic homophobe.

 

[Syno]

Right! Tell the kid he's gay before it is to late!

Spoiler :

Before he becomes a psychotic homophobe.

Or, get this, you better sit down because this will rock your world, simply tell your children to treat everyone with a common level of respect and compassion, and that other humans aren't inferior or deserving of misfortune simply due to them being different than you.

It's a pretty crazy idea, I know, but somehow it's recommended in society and doesn't get you thrown into a mental health facility. It's really weird! There must be something behind it, one of those "don't knock it 'till you try it" sort of deals.

On a serious, non-sarcastic note, the study doesn't say everyone who is homophobic is psychotic. It's not an "everybody is x" arrangement. It just indicates tendencies, like how fat people tend to be overeaters or heavy smokers tend to have poor lung health. It's not a plain guarantee but it's a tendency with a visible/determinable contributor.

 

[Kyriakos]

An issue is that children are not able to form an actual view on sexual matters, cause they are not even in puberty yet. So i doubt it is a good idea to tell them about homosexuality anyway. I suppose it is likely the better idea to generally tell them about the genitals, but pre-puberty a child is not going to have a sense of sexual matters (although it is documented in psychology/psychiatry that the sexual drive manifests in more convoluted and hidden manner).

Basically it would be a huge gamble to present those things to a person who still has time before he/she senses sexuality in a way tied to 'reality'. Children are not thinking in manners adults tend to, and they are more chaotic and individual.

 

[Syno]

An issue is that children are not able to form an actual view on sexual matters, cause they are not even in puberty yet. So i doubt it is a good idea to tell them about homosexuality anyway. I suppose it is likely the better idea to generally tell them about the genitals, but pre-puberty a child is not going to have a sense of sexual matters (although it is documented in psychology/psychiatry that the sexual drive manifests in more convoluted and hidden manner).

Basically it would be a huge gamble to present those things to a person who still has time before he/she senses sexuality in a way tied to 'reality'. Children are not thinking in manners adults tend to, and they are more chaotic and individual.

I don't think anyone sane is advocating for 4 year old little Timmy to get a crash course in how gay people bang and why it's different from straight people banging.

A good place to start before sexual education is a "thing" is simply educating them that people will be different and there is nothing wrong with that if they're not harming others. It's a foundation that can be worked off of as the child grows older and becomes more mature, and I would hazard a guess works better than simply covering their eyes until they're suddenly faced with completely different people than they're used to and have to either grow accustomed to it in record time or shy away into prejudice/racism/sexism/homophobia, etc.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Hmm. Are you speculating that homophobia might be genetic instead of learned, particularly by being exposed to it in a religious setting?

Huh. Are you implying that religions are inherently homophobic?

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't think anyone sane is advocating for 4 year old little Timmy to get a crash course in how gay people bang and why it's different from straight people banging.

A good place to start before sexual education is a "thing" is simply educating them that people will be different and there is nothing wrong with that if they're not harming others. It's a foundation that can be worked off of as the child grows older and becomes more mature, and I would hazard a guess works better than simply covering their eyes until they're suddenly faced with completely different people than they're used to and have to either grow accustomed to it in record time or shy away into prejudice/racism/sexism/homophobia, etc.

Yeah, but talking to a pre-puberty kid about homosexuality is a bad idea, not just talking about the sexual act. If the person you are speaking to has simply no way of forming a logical basis of what this is about, telling him/her something will at best appear cryptic, if not strange. Playing with how children think is never a good idea, for they do not think like the adults do and never could (as noted, they are more chaotic and consciously more individual than adults).

 

[Syno]

Yeah, but talking to a pre-puberty kid about homosexuality is a bad idea, not just talking about the sexual act. If the person you are speaking to has simply no way of forming a logical basis of what this is about, telling him/her something will at best appear cryptic, if not strange. Playing with how children think is never a good idea, for they do not think like the adults do and never could (as noted, they are more chaotic and consciously more individual than adults).

No idea how you expect a child to learn if everything is simply too "logical" for them to comprehend. I also have no idea how that constitutes as "playing" with how they think. Indoctrinating a child with your discriminatory beliefs is alright, but not when it supports the concept that being different is okay?

What would you say is a good idea to talk to children about? LEGO? Just talk about building blocks until they sprout their first erection or have their first period, and then lay it on them real heavy with the "logical" talk? I'm sure a kid whose voice just deepened will be real pumped to suddenly go from LEGO to homosexuals and whatever else you deem too logical.

Do you plan on never mentioning emotions to your child? Just pretend we're automatons until their body has changed enough to magically be able to handle the idea? You seem hyper-focused on homosexuality but the idea I'm proposing applies to almost every social concept. What part of "It's okay if people aren't quite like you." is too complex to a child that's learning basic algebra and about native american genocide before the double digits? How does that manipulate a kid? Do you subscribe to the idea that some human beings are indeed inferior to yourself simply because they aren't like you?

These are all serious questions, I'd love an answer to each of them.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, why exactly do you think it will benefit a child to tell them anything about homosexuality, since they are not able to form a view on it?

Besides, kids need to learn stuff they can examine a logic into. Which is why some kids can be amazing at math, but no kid has practical wisdom for they simply lack context and experience

I indeed am against feeding your own views into a kid, regardless of how those views are, unless you just want to discuss why you think something. But i doubt a pre-puberty child will gain anything by listening to specific stuff about phenomena he/she is not aware of. It will only annoy them that they cannot form a basis of examining what this was about.

And if you move the goalpost all the way to "i mean you just should tell them that people are different but all have rights/are equal" etc etc, well, yeah, but that is pretty basic. One would hope the kid will think for himself/herself at some time.

(and nice projection on your part on who is 'hyper focused' on homosexuality; i am 36, i don't care how most others are and choose who i have any ties to anyway).

 

[Syno]

I mean, you responded with another reference to homosexuality right after I said it applies to all social concepts, so it's not really projection. Your argument against my opinion is consistently about homosexuals and no other population. This would be ordinarily fine, especially since the thread's about homophobia, but it's tough to discredit or discount someone's opinion/statement if you focus on a minor aspect of its scope.

Children can form opinions. They're not blank slates incapable of thought. For the most part, they form their opinions from what they see and hear from their parents and role models (whatever those may be). As parents, you have no choice but to have an opinion and share it lest your child get their opinions from someone else. Independent opinion forming happens much later and it is impossible to shield your child from acquiring opinions from those they know beforehand without dramatically damaging their capacity to survive in society. There's a balance to be had and parents are the most effective method of tempering a child's ability to gain independence while not being woefully unprepared for the world and its many intricacies. Dealing with homosexuals, transgenders, different cultures, and people who are just leading different lives have all become expectations in our western world rather than something that must be sought out.

How can you be against sharing your views with your children but in favour of explaining your views to your children? Are they not the same thing? Why would a child be unaware of homosexuality now that our society has (mostly) accepted the concept and same-sex marriages/families are publicly visible now? There are three year olds today asking their parents why their friend at daycare has two moms or two dads, it's not exactly like gays are the boogeymen hiding in dark corners anymore.

I never moved the goalpost, that is where I started my opinion and that is where it's remained. Homosexuals are included under both "human beings" and "everyone".

 

[Kyriakos]

^Eh, yeah. The thread is on this subject, and you were going on about how to make children more accepting of homosexuality. So it is a bit absurd of you to then claim that i happened to read stuff into your posts about homosexuality while they were about...uh... everything and nothing in particular?

And your view about explaining things more to pre-puberty children is no realistic. To use a metaphor, the way of thinking a small child has is like a large number of toys which can be arranged to form over-toys (larger concepts) and altered to mix and tie to other things the child has in mind. The issue is that those "toys" change with time, and not even a god would be able to calculate how. So it is a very bad idea for a parent to try to play tutor in this regard. It is in fact more than a bad idea; it is a mistake.

Talking with one's child should be without such motives, and only have the child's well-being in mind. Afterall a parent is only temporarily an important source for the child's world-view. Else we get to all kinds of messed-up problems.

 

[Syno]

^Eh, yeah. The thread is on this subject, and you were going on about how to make children more accepting of homosexuality. So it is a bit absurd of you to then claim that i happened to read stuff into your posts about homosexuality while they were about...uh... everything and nothing in particular?

Neat, you ignored my post and misrepresented a single part of what I said. Have a good day, Kyriakos.

 

[Kyriakos]

At least you were not fast to judge me on that.

 

[cardgame]

“It doesn't have any effect on your life. What do you care?! People try to talk about it like it's a social issue. Like when you see someone stand up on a talk show and say, 'How am I supposed to explain to my child that two men are getting married?' ... I dunno, it's your kid, you tell 'em. Why is that anyone else's problem? Two guys are in love but they can't get married because you don't want to talk to your ugly child for five minutes?”
― Louis C.K.

Huh. Are you implying that religions are inherently homophobic?

They aren't inherently, but most of the big ones are.

http://www.lionsroar.com/study-finds-buddhism-is-the-least-homonegative-religion/

religious people are on average more homonegative than non-religious people

 

[cardgame]

strupid double post

 

[REDY]

Tell it to homosexual dinosaur in Noah's Ark.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

An issue is that children are not able to form an actual view on sexual matters, cause they are not even in puberty yet. So i doubt it is a good idea to tell them about homosexuality anyway. I suppose it is likely the better idea to generally tell them about the genitals, but pre-puberty a child is not going to have a sense of sexual matters (although it is documented in psychology/psychiatry that the sexual drive manifests in more convoluted and hidden manner).

Basically it would be a huge gamble to present those things to a person who still has time before he/she senses sexuality in a way tied to 'reality'. Children are not thinking in manners adults tend to, and they are more chaotic and individual.

You're honestly saying you had no sexual thoughts or interest in sexual matters whatsoever before the age of about 13?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah Kyriakos keeps trying to use the "children are too young" argument/excuse to explain his discomfort with gay-rights.

My 5 year old son has little girls trying to hold his hand and asking to be his "girlfriend" at school, so Kyriakos argument is just utterly false. Children are interested in, and can understand romantic relationships from the time they are old enough to see Cinderella marry the handsome prince.

I remember the first time I realized a gay relative was living with his boyfriend I was well under 10 years old. It made perfect sense to me because of Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street. Two adult guys living together who aren't related, because they were "friends." So when my mom said "We are going to visit your cousin who lives with his boyfriend." I said "Oh like Bert and Ernie Mommy?" and she said "That's right." Conversation over. Nothing complicated or traumatic about it.