Hoover Dam slingshot

[marceagleye]

This is my #1 strategy and it has always worked on each level through Monarch. Now, on Emporer level success isn't guaranteed since I'm usually too far behind in tech. As a human player negotiating with the AI is somethig that is increasingly more necessary each time you advance to a higher level. But if you're gameplay style is anything like mine you hate the AI and only trade for luxuries or vital resources. But this strategy will work whether you're an isolationist like me or the life of the party, someone who likes to trade with every AI every turn. But I digress.

I believe the reason for the success of this strategy is the AI's "need" to research Nationalism, Fascism or Communism, then change governments. As long as you're close enough in the tech race you will catch and pass the AI using this strategy. So here goes.

At the start of the industrial era, research Steam Power first then Industrialization next. Don't worry about the AI having rifles and new governments- trust me it is to their detriment. What I usually do is have all my workers in the city radius of my Capital waiting for Steam Power and as soon as I discover it I'll have the entire city railroaded in just a few turns, usually before the discovery of Industrialization. Then I split my workers up and begin railroading the rest of my core cities. Build factories in you're capital and biggest core cities after Industrialization. After you're capital is fully railroaded with a factory you can begin construction on Universal Suffrage. Even if the AI is already building it you should still complete it before them because they didn't railroad and build a factory first. Honestly Universal Suffrage isn't part of the strategy but if you don't build it then it is highly possible one of the AI will beat you to Theory of Evolution when they change production after another AI completes Universal Suffrage first. Your research path after industrialization is Medicine--> Electricity--> Scientific Method. Now you build ToE. But here's the tricky part. You're next tech researched will be Replaceable Parts. Adjust your science slider so that this tech discovery comes on the same turn as completion of ToE. If this doesn't happen you will have done wasted research. Another option if you discover RP before completing ToE set research to Atomic Theory and adjust your science slider to zero. ToE awards whatever you are already researching as the first free tech, then you choose the second free tech. The only way that first free tech is truly and absolutely free is if you've done no reserch towards it. That's why you want to discover RP the same turn as completing ToE. It is better to put the extra gold in your treasury rather than wasting on research of a tech you will get free. When you complete ToE your 2 free techs are your choice. Choose Atomic Theory and Electronics. Now you can build Hoover's and coast to victory. You will be ahead in the tech race now and should easily be able to trade for techs you haven't researched. Or don't trade at all and enjoy the fact the AI has fallen behind. Either way, you're on your way to victory.

 

[vmxa]

Well I am not big on trading with the AI as I feel it is sort of an exploit. We have the control on all deals to say yes or no and they are poor at it. Mind you I will do it in a peaceful game to varying degrees.

Now I do not see why you would be trailing in techs at empire level. If you had a decent start, you should be no worse than even. Not sure why ToE is part of Industrial.

I am going to go straight to RP, after Steam. I need not worry about ToE as my pre will make it a snap, if I am at least even upon entering the AI. I get RP and I stop being peaceful, if I was by that time.

Now I decide, if ToE is at risk or not. If not then I go for Ind. If I am unsure, I will start the process of getting SciMeth. I am not real concerned about Hoover as I can afford to pay maint on a few coal plants or whatever I will have.

Hoover is only useful, if I plan on having lots of factories and I won't. I would not spend any beakers on AT that early, I will either get it free from ToE or will be leaving it till much later.

So the real question is why are you "too far behind" by the AI at emperor level? Not enough expansion? Not enough getting them to give you money in deals? Not taking land from your neighbors? Empire management? These are the things that put most behind the curve.

I agree with making factories only in keys cities, you just do not need them and the delay they will cause for most.

 

[marceagleye]

Why shouldn't I be behind in tech? The AI researches faster than the human player on Emporer. I don't agree that I should be even with the AI. If you build Hoover Dam you'll never need to build any other plant ever. Save maintenence and pollution coal plants cost. Personally I hate Republic in the Ancient age. Too many factors hinder growth and development. You get no MP contentment, forcing use of the luxury slider then as your cities grow your entertainment spending must also grow. Then as you build temples and collosseums to try to slow the financial bleeding due to entertainment spending, the AI recognizes your military growth has become stagnant and declares war, bogging down your development more. Also every unit above your allowance costs 2 gold instead of one, penalizing you more for a bigger military, so even though your economy is twice the size of Monarchy, so too are your expenses, so what's the point? Look Republic is great when your civ is more developed, but when you're still growing Monarchy is better because your cities can use MP to grow a little before the need for luxury spending or temples. On Monarch level or below I agree I should be even or very close to the AI in the tech race but not on Emporer. By the time I develop enough to use Republic I'm close enough to Democracy to hold out a little longer. So why go through the Anarchy? I stay out of war if I can avoid it, so long as my civ is close enough in size to the bigger AI's I know I can close the gap in the Industrial Era. I don't care if you don't agree with my stategy, but your presumption that I should be no worse than even in the tech race is wrong. I hate trading tech to the AI and in the Ancient and middle ages the price of buying tech outright is more than I can afford. Ideally I'd trade one tech for three to three different AI but that is rarely possible. I know if I trade a tech to one AI they will trade it to all the other AI, even though the first AI was the only one with enough to trade in return. If I have a tech the AI doesn't I prefer not to trade it away, to try to keep the pace of tech discovery as slow as possible. They discover techs fast enough as it is so I'd rather not help them get even faster. I know that if I refuse to trade tech ever I'll fall too far behind and not be able to catch up so I do trade for tech when necessary. But there is a fine line I don't believe in buying or trading for tech at every chance possible. I prefer my growth and development be able to keep up with tech advances. The fact is you don't need to be ahead in tech to win. You just need to be close enough to keep a competitive military that can win. I've been playing this game for nine years and I don't move up to the next level until I've mastered the previous one. That means consistent victories with all random civs and map conditions. Since I started playing on Emporer I've changed my gameplay style a little bit. I don't try to build Ancient wonders as much and I go to war more often, but staying ahead in tech race is something I haven't been able to do. It's not a lack of expansion, money, land or management I do all those things fine. It's simply a matter of not trading enough. But that is how I prefer it. Sure it's more difficult but achieving victory while behind in tech and refusing to get chummy with the AI is more rewarding.

 

[vmxa]

"marceagleye"

"Why shouldn't I be behind in tech? The AI researches faster than the human player on Emporer. I don't agree

that I should be even with the AI."

You are right you should not be even, you should be ahead. I just gave you a little slack and went with early

IA being even. They only out research you for a time. If you are growing your empire, you should start to be the tech leader at that stage. It is quite possible to have already won the game on emperor by the early IA.

"If you build Hoover Dam you'll never need to build any other plant ever. Save maintenence and pollution coal

plants cost."

This is one of the reason you are behind. I do not need Hoover and a free plant. I should already have my coal

plant build, before I learn Electronics. What, am I going to care about the maint on a few plants at this stage?

Pollution is going to be insignificant for say 4 plants. It is easy to clean up anyway. Not even going to cost

me anything. How many tiles do you expect to get in a span of say 10 turns? One, two maybe even three total, what is that?

"Personally I hate Republic in the Ancient age. Too many factors hinder growth and development. You get no MP

contentment, forcing use of the luxury slider then as your cities grow your entertainment spending must also

grow."

Nice diatribe, but what is the relevance? Why did Rep come up? You are not likely to have switch to Rep and be

in the AA for very long anyway. The thing is the sooner you get out of depotism the better.

"Then as you build temples and collosseums to try to slow the financial bleeding due to entertainment spending,

the AI recognizes your military growth has become stagnant and declares war, bogging down your development

more."

Speak for yourself. I am not going to be building Coloseums and probably not many temples, unless it has become a cakewalk. I am pretty sure the AI does not have a clue as to how to evaluate my military strength.

Let them DOW, I play AWE for an easy game. Not going to sweat them. Let them all DOW, I like that just fine.

"Also every unit above your allowance costs 2 gold instead of one, penalizing you more for a bigger military, so

even though your economy is twice the size of Monarchy, so too are your expenses, so what's the point?"

Again I never mention Rep, so not sure why we are talkong about it. Since we are, it is the best gov to use for normal play. If you cannot afford your Mil, you need to do a few things. 1) grow towns to cities faster. 2) make more towns. 3) not make so many defenders and use your troops to get more land to pay for more troops. You may need to do a better job on your empire to get more gold from what you have. I mean use of workers.

These are the things most people are failing at, if they are behind by the IA at Emp or lower. Again, this presumes you have a fair shake on the start location and not Aesons so very cold of the ai start.

"Look Republic is great when your civ is more developed, but when you're still growing Monarchy is better

because your cities can use MP to grow a little before the need for luxury spending or temples. On Monarch

level or below I agree I should be even or very close to the AI in the tech race but not on Emporer. By the

time I develop enough to use Republic I'm close enough to Democracy to hold out a little longer."

MP's cost money. You have to build them and park them and not use them in the main. This hurts your growth. I think I know a little something about Monarchy as I played scores of AW games on maps all the way up to 362x362 with 31 civs. Rep does not need those units and use slider or specialist or lux (coupled with markets) to get the pop satisfied. I think I posted a game not too long ago where I played and stayed at war the whole game in Rep, no peace.

You scared me by mentioning Democracy. That is a no go for me. No reason to make another switch and to research those optional techs. I do not want to trade for them or beat them out of the AI either. When I beat on a civ, it is fatal for them. They get no deals, they get eliminated.

"So why go through the Anarchy? I stay out of war if I can avoid it, so long as my civ is close enough in size to the bigger AI's I know I can close the gap in the Industrial Era. I don't care if you don't agree with my stategy, but your presumption that I should be no worse than even in the tech race is wrong. I hate trading tech to the AI and in the Ancient and middle ages the price of buying tech outright is more than I can afford.

No it is not wrong. Looked at the list of SG's and Gotm, HoF and other places. You will find they are not behind at that point in the main.

"Ideally I'd trade one tech for three to three different AI but that is rarely possible. I know if I trade a tech to one AI they will trade it to all the other AI, even though the first AI was the only one with enough to trade in return."

I would advise you to trade your tech to everyone at the same time, so they get little from it from the others. Again, this is not a response to my position. I am not suggesting a lot of trades. Just a few key ones to slow them down.

"If I have a tech the AI doesn't I prefer not to trade it away, to try to keep the pace of tech

discovery as slow as possible. They discover techs fast enough as it is so I'd rather not help them get even

faster. I know that if I refuse to trade tech ever I'll fall too far behind and not be able to catch up so I do

trade for tech when necessary. But there is a fine line I don't believe in buying or trading for tech at every

chance possible. I prefer my growth and development be able to keep up with tech advances."

Another Red Herring as I never suggested the things you are assailling.

"The fact is you don't need to be ahead in tech to win."

Who is this addressed to, I think this is another attempt to put words in my mouth (so to speak). This topic never came up. It is quite common to just stop researching at MT or Steam. Won many times with just knights. No one even getting out of the middle ages.

"You just need to be close enough to keep a competitive military that can

win. I've been playing this game for nine years and I don't move up to the next level until I've mastered the

previous one. That means consistent victories with all random civs and map conditions. Since I started playing

on Emporer I've changed my gameplay style a little bit. I don't try to build Ancient wonders as much and I go

to war more often, but staying ahead in tech race is something I haven't been able to do. It's not a lack of

expansion, money, land or management I do all those things fine. It's simply a matter of not trading enough.

But that is how I prefer it. Sure it's more difficult but achieving victory while behind in tech and refusing

to get chummy with the AI is more rewarding."

I say again, if you are consistently behind in the IA at emperor, you are doing something wrong. It should not take 9 years. Many players have come here not beating Warlord and have been helped to beat DG in 6 months. If it matters Ihave been playing civ, since civ1. Does not mean a thing. It is like many things, you get quite good in little time. You can stay not so good forever. (Please note I am not saying you are not good, I have no idea how to even measure that)

Like I said I play AWE vs 31 civs for an easy game. They are not going to win. That means zero trades usually, or at least not after the first contact. I surely see no reason to trade, just to win. It is useful and of course for scoring it is important.

Here is the line for me, second tier IA techs you should be first to at least one. YOu should be leader in tech by third tier techs. Likely with only one or two others close to you. I would think that is a reasonable scenario for most games at emeror.

 

[marceagleye]

Very well. You win. I'm obviously not playing the right way. Clearly my strategy is useless. On Emporer level the game should be over before even getting to Hoover Dam. What a pathetic player I am! Anyone else out there don't even dream of using this strategy because others are just so extremely better it's not even close. What a waste of time gee how could I even think of posting such a ******ed strategy! That's called sarcasm in case you didn't know.

vmxa it is clear you don't recognize that you've insulted me and I was only trying to defend myself. So I'll say this one last time. I'm behind in tech and I should be. YOU should not be behind in tech because YOU are more advanced than Emporer. I AM NOT. Understand Genius?

 

[vorlon_mi]

vmxa, I've been reading (and being impressed by) your posts for several years. Your advice is full of single-minded focus and drive to take advantage of your terrain, and maximize the efficient use of your beakers and shields. No quarter given, and AIs are eliminated. You advocate building a solid core of productive cities, and they pump out the units to increase the size of your empire.

Since I'm still trying to shake my builders tendencies, I have to ask: What does the rest of your infrastructure look like, in the non-core cities? I always seem to have several (8 or 10) towns that are located on the periphery of my capital or FP city, that produce 3 or 4 shields per turn. Building units in those towns seems incredibly slow; is it worth it? Do they just build libraries and markets, and then turn into science farms? Do they produce workers, or do you just get the slaves from razing AI cities?

Do you stop founding cities, once your army is on the march, and you're taking the AI cities? Do you build extra towns, more closely spaced, for science farms?

 

[Spoonwood]

There exists nothing "wrong" with this strategy per se. While I do agree that building ToE and then Hoover's soon after can make sense in some upper level space and diplomatic games, and can make sense in pretty much any 20k game, I have a hard time thinking of where it would come as optimal with all the details involved here.

1. You don't do yourself a favor by having workers doing nothing in general. An exception might come as a 20k game where you really do want to clean any pollution in your 20k city in a single turn.

2. Why not cash-rush the factory if you really want Universal Suffrage that badly?

3. If you really want Theory of Evolution that early, why not just pre-build it with the Palace, and go Medicine if necessary-Electricity-Scientific Method, and then come back to Industrialization. Don't trade them Electricity/Scientific Method and you almost surely have enough time to finish ToE before any U. S. cascade.

4. Researching Replaceable Parts yourself hardly ever makes sense as basically all AIs seem a lock to research it as soon as they have Electricity. If the AIs can't research it for you, you probably don't need it... unless you plan to play the game to 2050 CE.

5. You can overbuild Theory of Evolution with the Palace (if you have enough cities to increase your Palace cost enough), so that you don't have to worry about wasting commerce.

6. It seems you intend this strategy for a military victory. The point of building Hoover's seems to increase your production of units. In other words, more powerful units faster. With that firmly in mind, it generally comes as better to research to a certain point (Military Tradition, Steam Power, or Replaceable Parts), and then shut off research. Or alternatively, keep researching, but sell techs for gpt as much as you can. You then use the money to buy armies, or disconnect your iron/saltpeter, change builds to horses (try and capture Leo's early, or at least get it as soon as you can), then reconnect your iron/saltpeter on the same turn, but don't change your builds from horses. Then when the horse completes on the inter-turn, zoom to the city and upgrade it to a knight/cavalry. You can get 2 or 3 turn knights/cavalry on plenty of maps with this strategy, especially if you tie this in with short-rushing. In this way, you can get more powerful units faster and earlier than with Hoover's.

That all said, as a strategy there doesn't exist anything "wrong" with doing this per se, I just don't see it as best.

 

[vmxa]

Hey Spoonwood I am not sure what these comments refer to without any quotes. What strat do you mean with noting wrong with it or it is not the best?

If it was mine, for sure I am not touting it as the best, only one way for him to consider as apparently his current one is not working for him. So to that extent it his does have something wrong with it. There are several strats that would work fine.

I am guessing that at least 1-5 are in reference to his comments?? If it is for his comment, just ignore this post. I just was not sure what you were addressing.

Edit:

vorlon_mi , sorry I had a nice long post for you and managed lose it. Will try to do it another time.

 

[Spoonwood]

Hey VMXA,

I was referring to the original post. I don't feel it clear that his Hoover's strategy works for him or doesn't work for him. He's not exactly clear here.

 

[del62]

hi marceagleeye

one of the problems when we rely on a wonder based statergy whether that be the great library, theory of evolution or anything else, then when we fail to meet the target wonder
we are often not in a good place, what we really should be concentrating on is improved general gameplay, such as understanding how to grow and expand more quickly and how we can increase our trade and make our cities more efficient

some questions you may ask yourself, are you making full use of tiles within your empire or are there a lot unworked, are you trading well with the other AI if you are playing peacefully, if you are at war are you fighting you war effectively, minimising loses.

 

[vmxa]

Since I'm still trying to shake my builders tendencies, I have to ask: What does the rest of your infrastructure look like, in the non-core cities? I always seem to have several (8 or 10) towns that are located on the periphery of my capital or FP city, that produce 3 or 4 shields per turn. Building units in those towns seems incredibly slow; is it worth it? Do they just build libraries and markets, and then turn into science farms? Do they produce workers, or do you just get the slaves from razing AI cities?

Do you stop founding cities, once your army is on the march, and you're taking the AI cities? Do you build extra towns, more closely spaced, for science farms?

Sorry I lost the update and took so long to respond. First a modified builder is fine, as long as one manages workers well and stays in contact with the AI on deals.

It is just something I stopped doing long ago. Does not mean it is bad. It can become bad, when you fail to manage the empire and the AI. Things like no trading or bad trades.

In a std map, that is to say std size and 8 civs on either cont or pan and no variants, I tend to use handful of cities (6-9) to do all the production (troops and wonders). Talking about emperor to DG.

I never stop expanding on these maps or most maps for that matter. I am fine having 100 cities, if that is how many I get up by end of game. I mainly will stay with CxxC, regardless of variant or not.

I do not care about the other towns (non core) as they are mostly not going to do anything except farm. Here I consider a city that is medium corrupt, but will have a lib as a farm. In that it is not a producer of troops.

They do little, except the first half of the game, where they make some units and mostly settlers and workers. The second ring (for lack of better term) will put out bombardment units from time to time. In a non AW I do not need all that many bombardment units.

If pushed into a predominately war footing and have went with Monarchy, fewer places get a lib. IOW the more peaceful the game the more likely I would be in Republic and the more towns that I would give improvements to.

At no time would I build a temple/lib/bank in a town that would not pay back the cost. Ok, there are always exceptions. The big thing is that if the town will get a lib, it may not get it asap. If it is small and needs to grow or I need a worker or settler or I am not researching at a high percent. Many considerations.

So to directly answer the question of a 4 shield town making troops, not likely to do that in a non war game, unless we are talking about very eary and I need some troops or MP (despotism). Then it is a 5 turn 20 shield or 8 turns.. Of course I am going to try to get that 5 shield to get the overrun to zero for a 3 shield town and say a turn on 4 shield town. Maybe work a 1 food or 0 food tile for a trun or two, if needed.

Markets are special as they offer extra happy, once you get to 3 lux or more. They tend to not be a gold multipler for me as I tend to not run much of a tax rate. Hence the bank is not a frequent build for me. I am unlikely to have Smith's, so the maint is not free and I just tend to not build them.


At the bank stage I am going to become aggressive, if I was not already. Land is all gone and I want all of it, so I have to take it.

Workers I tend to get by on too few as I consider that I am going to manage worker fairly well. In that vain I try to pop a worker out of towns as the are build as the first item, except for the first 3 towns. They may squeeze one out when I think I have to or I can spare the time and pop in those towns.

So the more towns I build the more native workers I will have. The bulk of worker task are going to come from slaves. Real farm (100% corrupt) may knock out an extra worker, once we get close to Steam. Depends on the game. If it is an AW, I may not need more native workers as I may have enough slaves, coupled with the possible danger of troops grabbing workers near the fronts. That may cause the majority of workers to be close to the core, depends on the landmass and the number of civs around me and such.

A further word on markerts. I may rush a few in 100% towns, if they have food for fast growth and happy problems. Once I get RP, I tend to toss a couple pop on CE duty to get the market quickly. The key is to understand the cost of doing anything and be sure it is worth it at that time.

Things that are worth it, may not be worth it right now. A good deal is of no use, if I cannot afford it at that time. Hope that was coherent and of some use.

Sorry for the thread jack.

 

[templar_x]

Very well. You win. I'm obviously not playing the right way. Clearly my strategy is useless. On Emporer level the game should be over before even getting to Hoover Dam. What a pathetic player I am! Anyone else out there don't even dream of using this strategy because others are just so extremely better it's not even close. What a waste of time gee how could I even think of posting such a ******ed strategy! That's called sarcasm in case you didn't know.

vmxa it is clear you don't recognize that you've insulted me and I was only trying to defend myself. So I'll say this one last time. I'm behind in tech and I should be. YOU should not be behind in tech because YOU are more advanced than Emporer. I AM NOT. Understand Genius?

you asked a question and players who know the game very well and better than you answered it for more than once. that is exactly what this site is about in my eyes, and there is not the slightest thing wrong with that. and there is absolutely nothing to feel insulted over, as there was no insult, and really no place for sarcasm either. if you do not like the advice, do not take it.

t_x

 

[vmxa]

Very well. You win. I'm obviously not playing the right way. Clearly my strategy is useless. On Emporer level the game should be over before even getting to Hoover Dam. What a pathetic player I am! Anyone else out there don't even dream of using this strategy because others are just so extremely better it's not even close. What a waste of time gee how could I even think of posting such a ******ed strategy! That's called sarcasm in case you didn't know.

vmxa it is clear you don't recognize that you've insulted me and I was only trying to defend myself. So I'll say this one last time. I'm behind in tech and I should be. YOU should not be behind in tech because YOU are more advanced than Emporer. I AM NOT. Understand Genius?

Well I am sorry. I thought I was dealig with an adult. More like my wife, she whines and assumes every thing said was meant as an attack. Not sure how I can insult anyone that I have no clue who they are, but so be it.

I figured you wanted to do better, that is what people usually do, when they come to the board and state their issues. We give them feedback and bat it around. They incorporate what makes sense and dismiss what they do not like.

That is what grown ups should do. Not cry and take their ball and go home. It matters not to me, how you proceed. I am not hurt by others positions. I can accept being wrong and being ignored.

Be that as it may, I still would prefer you to get better, using any strat you want and can be given. I was foolish enough to think that when you were told that you did not have to be trailing at that stage, you may have just wanted to find some methods to change to not be behind, my mistake. I make lots of them. So again good luck.

 

[Theov]

Well I am sorry. I thought I was dealig with an adult. More like my wife, she whines and assumes every thing said was meant as an attack. Not sure how I can insult anyone that I have no clue who they are, but so be it.

I figured you wanted to do better, that is what people usually do, when they come to the board and state their issues. We give them feedback and bat it around. They incorporate what makes sense and dismiss what they do not like.

That is what grown ups should do. Not cry and take their ball and go home. It matters not to me, how you proceed. I am not hurt by others positions. I can accept being wrong and being ignored.

Be that as it may, I still would prefer you to get better, using any strat you want and can be given. I was foolish enough to think that when you were told that you did not have to be trailing at that stage, you may have just wanted to find some methods to change to not be behind, my mistake. I make lots of them. So again good luck.

I just hope that when your wife says "Hey, I ran over a cat with the car, but did you know our dog just loves cat meat? Man, you gotta love Wolfie." is that you nod and remember the tip, and next time you run over a cat, you know what to do.
Now, without knowing your wife, I can predict that she would frown upon a reaction in the lines of: "Wait wait there, my dearest, let me sign you up for driving lessons, because you should not be running cats over with the car."

 

[marceagleye]

Templar X I did not ask any questions here. VMXA I was not seeking advice. The fact is I discovered and developed this strategy on my own and I'm damn proud of it. Your not liking it doesn't bother me in the least. What does bother me is your arrogant need to "correct" my gameplay. Again, I didn't seek any advice here. My comments about my own skill level were included to let less experienced players know they aren't alone. Perhaps I should also clarify nine years of experience playing this game. The first year was an all-out balls to the wall play every chance I get love affair with civilization3. Since then the obligations of family life dominate the majority of my time. So if you think I should take time to look at past games played and read the archives and study other information to improve my gameplay guess what it ain't gonna happen.

I posted a strategy that has worked exceptionally well for me as a possible tool for less experienced players. I didn't post here to be "taught to play better." If you don't believe that then read the first post again. You will see there were no questions asked.

 

[Spoonwood]

Problem comes as that such a strategy probably won't help players move up levels. And you say this

I posted a strategy that has worked exceptionally well for me as a possible tool for less experienced players.

. Except in the original post you say

Now, on Emporer level success isn't guaranteed since I'm usually too far behind in tech.

and

Honestly Universal Suffrage isn't part of the strategy but if you don't build it then it is highly possible one of the AI will beat you to Theory of Evolution when they change production after another AI completes Universal Suffrage first.

There do exist strategies where such doubts as to its viability don't arise at Emperor.

 

[vmxa]

marceagleye, I am correcting it as I do not want others to think is is a good idea. You say you are behind in the IA, that is not working, that is a problem. I don't care, if you use it and stay behind at emperor in the IA. I only care that you tell others that is a good plan. It is not a good plan. It is not arrogant, as it just pointing out what you said.

 

[Elephantium]

Templar X I did not ask any questions here. VMXA I was not seeking advice. The fact is I discovered and developed this strategy on my own and I'm damn proud of it. Your not liking it doesn't bother me in the least. What does bother me is your arrogant need to "correct" my gameplay. Again, I didn't seek any advice here. My comments about my own skill level were included to let less experienced players know they aren't alone. Perhaps I should also clarify nine years of experience playing this game. The first year was an all-out balls to the wall play every chance I get love affair with civilization3. Since then the obligations of family life dominate the majority of my time. So if you think I should take time to look at past games played and read the archives and study other information to improve my gameplay guess what it ain't gonna happen.

I posted a strategy that has worked exceptionally well for me as a possible tool for less experienced players. I didn't post here to be "taught to play better." If you don't believe that then read the first post again. You will see there were no questions asked.

Your attitude could use about as much work as your gameplay. When someone of vmxa's caliber offers advice, you're a fool if you don't take it -- and doubly so if you spit in his face for daring to share his experience.

 

[Lanzelot]

Templar X I did not ask any questions here. VMXA I was not seeking advice. The fact is I discovered and developed this strategy on my own and I'm damn proud of it.

Sorry that I have to disappoint you, but the idea is not that new anymore. (Even I have been using it in spaceship games more than 5 years ago -- before I discovered that it makes more sense to delay ToE and pick two modern age technologies for it... )

However, I didn't invent this either, I read it somewhere. (Can't remember when and where. Too long ago.) I'm pretty sure that the old legends (SirPleb, Moonsinger, Bamspeedy, Aeson, DaveMcW et al.) have been using this technique already 10 years ago.

The oldest reference I was able to find after a short search, is this quote from TheDarkPhantom's War Academy Article "A Guide to Great Wonders and How to Use Them", from September 2004:

Alternatively (and this is, I profess, my favourite use of Theory of Evolution) you can get this wonder (rushing it to completion would be a joy to behold) then pick up Atomic Theory and Electronics and then immediately start work on the Hoover Dam, which is much more important in my opinion, without competition from the AI, 2 techs behind you, then pick up that wonder as well, while trading your two bonus techs for the path to Mass Production and Motorised Transportation and find yourself in a great production position, with +50% pollution free production bonus in every city with a factory, churning out tanks.

So if it was introduced into the War Academy in 2004, it must already have been "common knowledge" for some time before that.

 

[vmxa]

Most likely discovered in beta.