Hoping for a Mac version right out of the box!

[EmpireOfCats]

Apple will charge you buckloads for crap hardware, simply because they can.

Not sure why the Intel i5 520M 32 nm and Nvidia graphics on my new MacBook Pro is supposed to be "crap hardware" but okay on a Windows machine, but let's skip that part and go to the other hardware. For example, the solid piece of metal the MacBook Pro's body is made out of.

Pick up your Dell laptop or ThinkPad or whatever you use as a base for your Ubuntu or Gentoo or whatever, grab the sides, and flex. If anything shifts or bends at all or the case actually makes a noise, that's the crap hardware. Hardware is more than chips, though they might not teach that in computer science class. It's the whole package. You might not care, but a few million of us do, and are willing to pay a little more for something well-built and designed with attention to detail. This is why Apple is making money hand over fist.

Apple-licensed software for Apple licensed hardware, and we'll sue you to death if you try any other combination.

Huh? You can put any software on the Mac you want to, including Windows and Linux. Apple's website actually shows a video of a Mac running Windows. I think you're confusing Macs with iPhones here.

Anyway, to get back to the topic: All we are saying is that it would be very nice of Firaxis to produce a Mac version parallel to the Windows version, like other companies are doing now. Because it's fairly easy to do. If Firaxis doesn't want to, fine, then I simply won't be playing Civ V as much as I would otherwise, because rebooting is a pain in the rear, and the three other games I'm interested in this year -- Portal 2, Diablo 3 (maybe, probably 2012), and StarCraft 2 -- are all going to be OS X native. "Other mothers have beautiful daughters, too", as the German saying goes.

It's Firaxis' call, of course. They're the ones trying to sell games and build the old mind-share.

 

[civ_king]

You think they "should" do a Mac release out of the box?

Why should they? Because you want them to?

I want them to give me a copy for free. Should they do that too?

There are lots of things I'd like lots of people to do. It doesn't mean they "should" do them.

It is completely reasonable for them to delay the Mac release so they can get the PC version out earlier to the majority of their audience. No quantity of "I want a cookie" foot stomping is going to change that.

no, I would like them to release it simultaneously, they should release a non-crap port
but that should be easy as they can drop the fat binary, if they make it work well with Wine, that's palatable

Not sure why the Intel i5 520M 32 nm and Nvidia graphics on my new MacBook Pro is supposed to be "crap hardware" but okay on a Windows machine, but let's skip that part and go to the other hardware. For example, the solid piece of metal the MacBook Pro's body is made out of.

Pick up your Dell laptop or ThinkPad or whatever you use as a base for your Ubuntu or Gentoo or whatever, grab the sides, and flex. If anything shifts or bends at all or the case actually makes a noise, that's the crap hardware. Hardware is more than chips, though they might not teach that in computer science class. It's the whole package. You might not care, but a few million of us do, and are willing to pay a little more for something well-built and designed with attention to detail. This is why Apple is making money hand over fist.



Huh? You can put any software on the Mac you want to, including Windows and Linux. Apple's website actually shows a video of a Mac running Windows. I think you're confusing Macs with iPhones here.

Anyway, to get back to the topic: All we are saying is that it would be very nice of Firaxis to produce a Mac version parallel to the Windows version, like other companies are doing now. Because it's fairly easy to do. If Firaxis doesn't want to, fine, then I simply won't be playing Civ V as much as I would otherwise, because rebooting is a pain in the rear, and the three other games I'm interested in this year -- Portal 2, Diablo 3 (maybe, probably 2012), and StarCraft 2 -- are all going to be OS X native. "Other mothers have beautiful daughters, too", as the German saying goes.

It's Firaxis' call, of course. They're the ones trying to sell games and build the old mind-share.

Apple is totalitarian with the iPhone I concede, but they give you a free toolkit for Mac development,
The MacBook Pro case is durable (decent looking does help), the case unless constantly abused will probably last five years!

Core i5s are nice, but I think the possibility of hex core mobile processor with a supreme graphics chip built in is sweet to (Apple might buy AMD or at least be able to get exactly what they want or simply use AMD as leverage to extract concessions from Intel)

@Chalks, find me a laptop that will beat the high end MacBook Pro 15" (factor in Windows 7 Ultimate) in specs, and cost by at least 15% (you said Apple gouges us insanely) to prove to us Windows>Mac

 

[Chalks]

no, I would like them to release it simultaneously, they should release a non-crap port
but that should be easy as they can drop the fat binary, if they make it work well with Wine, that's palatable

Well, they pretty much absolutely will do that. So lets all have a party.

@Chalks, find me a laptop that will beat the high end MacBook Pro 15" (factor in Windows 7 Ultimate) in specs, and cost by at least 15% (you said Apple gouges us insanely) to prove to us Windows>Mac

Nobody cares about laptops on a gaming forum. You are clearly not a serious gamer since you think anyone here is talking about laptops.

But you did ask so nicely, so lets give it a go shall we?

I've found this:

http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MC373B/A?mco=MTc0Njg5ODg

Mac book pro, 15" - I'm not sure if its top of the line, but it's certainly priced that way even though its specs are extremely horsehockey. Here they are:

• 2.66GHz Intel Core i7
• 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
• 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
• MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display

Price: £1,799.00

Welcome to 3 years ago!! Anyway, lets take a quick trip to the Dell website (I'm not even going to bother to look for the cheapest deal I can find because what would be the point when my point is so easy to make)

Here we go!

I'll colour code the specs for you - black is the same, green is better!

• Intel® Core™ i7-620M (2.66Ghz, 4 Thread, turbo boost up to 3.33 GHz, 4MB cache)
• 4096MB 1067MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2x2048]
• 500GB (7,200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive
• 17.3” High Definition+ (1600x900) LED with TL
• 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 5650 Graphics Card

Oh, and now for the fun part - the price!! Lets have a look shall we.....

£939

Yep. £939.00.

The WORSE SPEC Apple system is 90% more expensive!

MMMMM Welcome to reality! Glad you could join us!

You know that strange feeling you've got? That's not love. That's getting screwed and asking for more.

*edit* OOPS! you said "Factor in windows 7 ultimate" and I missed that part. Silly me. I'd like to ask you why you want me to arbitrarily increase the price. Do you think it would make your argument better or something? I don't have ultimate on any of my systems and everything runs fine.

But you know, I am feeling generous! So I'll add ultimate for you. That increases the price by a whole £90. Feel better?

*edit* also had to customise to add the i7 to the non touchscreen dell.

 

[civ_king]

Well, they pretty much absolutely will do that. So lets all have a party.



Nobody cares about laptops on a gaming forum. You are clearly not a serious gamer since you think anyone here is talking about laptops.

But you did ask so nicely, so lets give it a go shall we?

I've found this:

http://store.apple.com/uk/configure/MC373B/A?mco=MTc0Njg5ODg

Mac book pro, 15" - I'm not sure if its top of the line, but it's certainly priced that way even though its specs are extremely horsehockey. Here they are:

• 2.66GHz Intel Core i7
• 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
• 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
• MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display

Price: £1,799.00

Welcome to 3 years ago!! Anyway, lets take a quick trip to the Dell website (I'm not even going to bother to look for the cheapest deal I can find because what would be the point when my point is so easy to make)

Here we go!

I'll colour code the specs for you - black is the same, green is better!

• Intel® Core™ i7-620M (2.66Ghz, 4 Thread, turbo boost up to 3.33 GHz, 4MB cache)
• 4096MB 1067MHz Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM [2x2048]
• 500GB (7,200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive
• 17.3” High Definition+ (1600x900) LED with TL
• 1GB ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 5650 Graphics Card

Oh, and now for the fun part - the price!! Lets have a look shall we.....

£939

Yep. £939.00.

The WORSE SPEC Apple system is 90% more expensive!

MMMMM Welcome to reality! Glad you could join us!

You know that strange feeling you've got? That's not love. That's getting screwed and asking for more.

*edit* OOPS! you said "Factor in windows 7 ultimate" and I missed that part. Silly me. I'd like to ask you why you want me to arbitrarily increase the price. Do you think it would make your argument better or something? I don't have ultimate on any of my systems and everything runs fine.

But you know, I am feeling generous! So I'll add ultimate for you. That increases the price by a whole £90. Feel better?

*edit* also had to customise to add the i7 to the non touchscreen dell.

I was going for the 15" form factor, 17" is impractical for travel, and @7200 isn't much faster than @5400, but it does produce much more heat and bad for battery life, plus likes to set off Sudden Motion Sensor

Studio 15
PROCESSORS Core i7-720QM Quad Core Processor 1.6GHz (2.8GHz Turbo Mode, 6MB Cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Windows® 7 Ultimate with XP Mode, 64bit, English
MEMORY 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR3 at 1066MHz
HARD DRIVE 500GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
MOBILE CONNECTIVITY Internal Mobile Broadband not included
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 2 Year Basic Service Plan
HD DISPLAY 15.6” High Definition (720p) LED Display with TrueLife™ and Camera
KEYBOARD Back-lit Keyboard
BATTERY OPTIONS 85 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (9 cell)
BLUETOOTH Dell Wireless 365 Bluetooth Internal (2.1)
OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner + Roxio Easy CD & DVD Burning - Enhanced Burn/Authoring
SOUND OPTIONS Soundblaster X-Fi Hi Def Audio - Software
Starting Price $1,980.00

vs.

2.66GHz Intel Core i7
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
Backlit Keyboard (English) & User's Guide
iWork preinstalled
$2,298.00

Mac has more durable case (lasts longer), and longer battery life, plus when you get a new one you can sell this one for $700+
Life time cost: $1600

so 13.84% more initially and 19% cheaper long run, extreme price gouging eh?

 

[Chalks]

..... what?

You said "find a better spec system for cheaper" and I did.

You've found one that's more expensive? So you've proven to us that you're really great at getting ripped off no matter what you buy! What's your point?

15" Dell laptop costs £749!!

http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/hom...aspx?refid=laptop-studio-1555&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1

Nobody cares that you're able to find more expensive systems out there. It just makes you terrible at buying computer systems. That's not a plus for Apple, that's a minus for you.

 

[civ_king]

..... what?

You said "find a better spec system for cheaper" and I did.

You've found one that's more expensive? So you've proven to us that you're really great at getting ripped off no matter what you buy! What's your point?

15" Dell laptop costs £749!!

http://www1.euro.dell.com/uk/en/hom...aspx?refid=laptop-studio-1555&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1

Nobody cares that you're able to find more expensive systems out there. It just makes you terrible at buying computer systems. That's not a plus for Apple, that's a minus for you.

That's worse specs! I need those things,

PS, when you sell a MacBook (Pro) after three years you can get ~50% of the cost back

 

[Chalks]

That's worse specs! I need those things,

PS, when you sell a MacBook (Pro) after three years you can get ~50% of the cost back

What are you talking about? What specs are worse? The processor is the same, the ram is the same, the hard disk is the same, the screen size is the same.

What are you gibbering on about, and how is going to justify a £1,000 difference in price??

 

[civ_king]

What are you talking about? What specs are worse? The processor is the same, the ram is the same, the hard disk is the same, the screen size is the same.

What are you gibbering on about, and how is going to justify a £1,000 difference in price??

Battery Life, that is huge
Durability, things tend to get banged up a bit when traveling a lot
Processor, i7 @2.66GHz is better
Optical Drive
No Bluetooth
Audio
And Windows 7 Home Premium just isn't as good as Snow Leopard (Ultimate is much closer)

plus resale value

 

[Chalks]

Battery Life, that is huge
Durability, things tend to get banged up a bit when traveling a lot
Processor, i7 @2.66GHz is better
Optical Drive
No Bluetooth
Audio
And Windows 7 Home Premium just isn't as good as Snow Leopard (Ultimate is much closer)

Open your eyes and read the specification. It has all those things. It costs a fraction of the price.

You said "same specs and more than 15% cheaper". Stop desperately trying to find other things without even looking at the specs. You're trying to justify a £1000 - so finding something that can be added for £90 isn't enough! Amazingly!

The battery power is BETTER on the dell: 85WHr vs 77.5WHr
The processor is the same.
The optical drive is the same
It has bluetooth
It has a full audio system
It has windows 7 ultimate

Read it harder. With your eyes and your brain. Please. You're trying to justify a £1000 price difference!

Oh, and resale value is completely irrelevant if you spent 2x as much on it in the first place!! A quick look on ebay shows that you can sell 5 year old laptops for about £200-£300. So the "final" cost of the Dell after resale is £400-£500. Herp-derp. Apple loses again.

 

[Graven]

This thread is funny. While it's probably not worth the effort, I thought I'd help out by letting you guys know that specs are 100% irrelevant. Macs are insanely overpriced if you just compare specs; it's not even a debate. Anyone fighting on the Mac side is a fool.

In turn though, anyone arguing that point on the PC side is also a fool. People buy Macs for the OS, not the computer. If one could go out and buy a Dell and install OSX on it, only a moron would ever go to the Apple store for their computers (I don't care how much better they are aesthetically...).

That being said, OSX is unilaterally superior to Windows. That too, could only be debated by people who don't understand both operating systems.

 

[Chalks]

That being said, OSX is unilaterally superior to Windows. That too, could only be debated by people who don't understand both operating systems.

A more sensible question, however, is whether or not said "superiority" is worth doubling the price of the system.

The windows OS is completely usable for what I wish to achieve. Would I be willing to pay £1000 to have it improved? No. Not even slightly.

I would perhaps be willing to buy a computer system with OSX instead of windows for perhaps a £100 additional cost. If it really is very very good. But it's an operating system. It's the thing I see during the brief period between turning it on and running the application I'm going to be using.

Mac's market share is due to their marketing and the fact that people are easy to manipulate. Not due to it being a sound investment.

Apple want your money for something that doesn't even begin to justify the price, and 6% of the market are willing to bend over and take it.

 

[Duke Blackstone]

A more sensible question, however, is whether or not said "superiority" is worth doubling the price of the system.

The windows OS is completely usable for what I wish to achieve. Would I be willing to pay £1000 to have it improved? No. Not even slightly.

I would perhaps be willing to buy a computer system with OSX instead of windows for perhaps a £100 additional cost. If it really is very very good. But it's an operating system. It's the thing I see during the brief period between turning it on and running the application I'm going to be using.

Mac's market share is due to their marketing and the fact that people are easy to manipulate. Not due to it being a sound investment.

Apple want your money for something that doesn't even begin to justify the price, and 6% of the market are willing to bend over and take it.

Were loosing the whole point of this thread, which was to convince Firaxis to make a mac version of Civ5. The flame war between Mac and Windows here is ridiculous. I would buy a mac version, because i have a Mac laptop. If i am forced to take the time to duel boot, then i will simply wait until piratebay cracks the windows version and use it. I believe there are many casual gamers out there like me who feal the same way

 

[civ_king]

Open your eyes and read the specification. It has all those things. It costs a fraction of the price.

You said "same specs and more than 15% cheaper". Stop desperately trying to find other things without even looking at the specs. You're trying to justify a £1000 - so finding something that can be added for £90 isn't enough! Amazingly!

The battery power is BETTER on the dell: 85WHr vs 77.5WHr
The processor is the same.
The optical drive is the same
It has bluetooth
It has a full audio system
It has windows 7 ultimate

Read it harder. With your eyes and your brain. Please. You're trying to justify a £1000 price difference!

Oh, and resale value is completely irrelevant if you spent 2x as much on it in the first place!! A quick look on ebay shows that you can sell 5 year old laptops for about £200-£300. So the "final" cost of the Dell after resale is £400-£500. Herp-derp. Apple loses again.

The Mac uses less power so it still has longer run time

Look again at the processor, the Mac has a Dual and the laptop has a Quad, when benchmarked against each other the Dual crushed the Quad

optical drive is slower

Your own site says Bluetooth not included

I saw reviews rave about the audio on Mac 15"

Just upgrade it to what you claimed and after resale is £789-£889 so your math failed while the Mac is ~£900, Just between Battery Life and OS I'd come up with the £10-£110 extra

This thread is funny. While it's probably not worth the effort, I thought I'd help out by letting you guys know that specs are 100% irrelevant. Macs are insanely overpriced if you just compare specs; it's not even a debate. Anyone fighting on the Mac side is a fool.

In turn though, anyone arguing that point on the PC side is also a fool. People buy Macs for the OS, not the computer. If one could go out and buy a Dell and install OSX on it, only a moron would ever go to the Apple store for their computers (I don't care how much better they are aesthetically...).

That being said, OSX is unilaterally superior to Windows. That too, could only be debated by people who don't understand both operating systems.

My point is that once you resell a Mac it is back in the reasonably overpriced range which conforms with the better OS, battery Life and aesthetics

A more sensible question, however, is whether or not said "superiority" is worth doubling the price of the system.

The windows OS is completely usable for what I wish to achieve. Would I be willing to pay £1000 to have it improved? No. Not even slightly.

I would perhaps be willing to buy a computer system with OSX instead of windows for perhaps a £100 additional cost. If it really is very very good. But it's an operating system. It's the thing I see during the brief period between turning it on and running the application I'm going to be using.

Mac's market share is due to their marketing and the fact that people are easy to manipulate. Not due to it being a sound investment.

Apple want your money for something that doesn't even begin to justify the price, and 6% of the market are willing to bend over and take it.

RESELL! how friggin hard is it for people to understand!
@Duke Blackstone I'm sure you didn't just say you were going to do something illegal right?

 

[Duke Blackstone]

As soon as they finally come out with a Mac version i will buy it. But i need some way to quell my civ addiction before then.

 

[wabatt]

That being said, OSX is unilaterally superior to Windows. That too, could only be debated by people who don't understand both operating systems.

In my mind a OS is only as good as the software it can run. Almost everything runs on windows. I have yet to find something that doesn't, but I'm sure there is some obscure software out there...

OSX on the other hand only runs a handful of the numerous programs I use and many PC games wait a while to port or never become avalible to Macs

Maybe i'm a little biased because i don't like laptops and those seem to be Apple's main focus but still

 

[civ_king]

In my mind a OS is only as good as the software it can run. Almost everything runs on windows. I have yet to find something that doesn't, but I'm sure there is some obscure software out there...

OSX on the other hand only runs a handful of the numerous programs I use and many PC games wait a while to port or never become available to Macs

Maybe i'm a little biased because i don't like laptops and those seem to be Apple's main focus but still

Do you really need 3000 versions of Solitaire? If you have one good programs isn't that just as good as 10 identical programs?

PS the iMac should be decent after refresh

 

[Andrewicus]

this flame war is just moronic. Macs have benefits and drawbacks, windows machines have benefits and drawbacks, linux machines have benefits and drawbacks. End of story, move on and stop being absolutely childish. That goes for both sides. This debate has no place in this thread.

the point of this thread is to tell Firaxis that we would like a mac compatible (including modding & tools) version in the original release. Personally if it gives better compatibility with mods and modding tools I will take a Cider port (as long as it is SUPPORTED and not abandonware like many transgaming titles). That or work with someone like Aspyr to port with a native version but also with complete compatibility with patches, mods & modding tools. There is no doubt that the contingent of Mac users is growing far more and faster than ever before, especially those that might like a more casual friendly version of Civ like what Civ 5 seems to be trying to be. People like Valve & Blizzard have done native ports and though EA seems hit or miss with its cider ports they too put out games on mac and there are clearly buyers.

so I reiterate, Firaxis please consider your growing mac fan/userbase and release a fully supported mac version if not at release, as soon as possible.

----Now you may resume your further infantile debate about who has the better expensive hunk of circuitry.

 

[LordRahl]

2) Past late 30s people are raising families and in this economy everything gets lots of cuts so smart people choose the one that may be 50% more but it has 20% more powerful processor, last them 100% longer in both usability and battery life!

Huh? Are you seriously trying to tell us that because people don't have money, they are willing to spend 50% more on a computer? If anything it's just the opposite. When trying to save money people will compare specs, and buy the cheapest thing that satisfies those. Nobody will be looking at intangible 'durability'.

But then, Macs are really not meant for people on low budget - but rather for those that don't mind overspending.

 

[civ_king]

Huh? Are you seriously trying to tell us that because people don't have money, they are willing to spend 50% more on a computer? If anything it's just the opposite. When trying to save money people will compare specs, and buy the cheapest thing that satisfies those. Nobody will be looking at intangible 'durability'.

But then, Macs are really not meant for people on low budget - but rather for those that don't mind overspending.

I meant it as hedging your chances in case there is insufficient money for a new computer any time soon, I would rather spend $50 dollars on a pair of pants that will last me years then a $30 pair that will last me a year

 

[LordRahl]

I meant it as hedging your chances in case there is insufficient money for a new computer any time soon, I would rather spend $50 dollars on a pair of pants that will last me years then a $30 pair that will last me a year

Nobody's buying Macs because they last longer. My PC can certainly outlast any of your Mac purchases, by the very virtue of hardware compatibility. Instead of buying a new computer every couple of years, all I need to do is exchange/upgrade a component that's broken/outdated. Go ahead and compare prices for Mac and PC components - the difference is scary. As was already stated in this thread - arguing that Macs are somehow cheaper than PCs is just plain silly. In the end you are paying a lot of extra money for that little Apple sticker on it (i.e. marketing), and lack of direct hardware competitor.

The only time I would see myself buying a Mac, is if I was going to buy a computer for my parents/grandparents. I made a mistake of buying a Vista laptop for my mom, and spent a lot of time getting her to the point where she can use it without my help. Macs are perfect for the computer illiterate.